sinker 0
slug 1
We support our troops and their families
We're not going to pull out of iraq until the country is stable and can take care of themselves. Then the country will sink into a civil war and break into three parts.
To bad reminds me of what happened in vietnam after we gave the ARVN the lead in fighting the NVA.
Who knows maybe katrina 2005 will have the same impact in our war in Iraq as Tet 1968 in our war in RVN.
R.I.P.
We're not going to pull out of iraq until the country is stable and can take care of themselves. Then the country will sink into a civil war and break into three parts.
To bad reminds me of what happened in vietnam after we gave the ARVN the lead in fighting the NVA.
Who knows maybe katrina 2005 will have the same impact in our war in Iraq as Tet 1968 in our war in RVN.
R.I.P.
kallend 2,148
Quote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
Those quotes have been said before...And while I an certain that they did not think things would be going this badly, those quotes are referring to the initial regime toppling, not to the aftermath.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
kallend 2,148
QuoteQuoteQuote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
Those quotes have been said before...And while I an certain that they did not think things would be going this badly, those quotes are referring to the initial regime toppling, not to the aftermath.
From where do you get that idea? The Iraqis were supposed to be showering our troops with flowers, remember?
And it's all irrelevant to the families of the troops KIA after the "six months" was up.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
Those quotes have been said before...And while I an certain that they did not think things would be going this badly, those quotes are referring to the initial regime toppling, not to the aftermath.
From where do you get that idea? The Iraqis were supposed to be showering our troops with flowers, remember?
And it's all irrelevant to the families of the troops KIA after the "six months" was up.
Yeah, you are right. I thought I remembered a quote where Cheney said something to that effect (of what I just said), but I cannot find it.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
kallend 2,148
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
Those quotes have been said before...And while I an certain that they did not think things would be going this badly, those quotes are referring to the initial regime toppling, not to the aftermath.
From where do you get that idea? The Iraqis were supposed to be showering our troops with flowers, remember?
And it's all irrelevant to the families of the troops KIA after the "six months" was up.
Yeah, you are right. I thought I remembered a quote where Cheney said something to that effect (of what I just said), but I cannot find it.
"My sources tell me we'll be greeted with flowers", VP R. Cheney, March 2003.
Also similar statements predicting flowers were made by US Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R) California, and Ann Coulter.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Skyrad 0
It doesn't look like there are any winners in this mongolian cluster fuck of a war.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
Sort of like how we were only supposed to be Bosnia for a year....and then, we were only supposed to be in Kosovo for a year.... guess where we still are?
Oh, I forgot, that was your "Messiah" Clinton that said that, so that's ok...right?
I also love how you throw the quotes out there like they were talking about being completely finished and coming home in "six days, six weeks..."
NOBODY with half a brain thought that...we spent longer than that on Desert Storm.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I think the USA won the war , but they lost the "peace" that came after due to the insurgency, which they hadn't been prepared for.
In saying they won....is solely a reference to unseating Saddam,
To leave now would be a defeat similar to Vietnam, and I dont think Bush and his cronies could stand something like that.
Bill Cole
.
In saying they won....is solely a reference to unseating Saddam,
To leave now would be a defeat similar to Vietnam, and I dont think Bush and his cronies could stand something like that.
Bill Cole
.
kallend 2,148
QuoteQuoteQuote
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
Feb. 7, 2003: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
March 11, 2003: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator."
March 16, 2003: Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."
Sort of like how we were only supposed to be Bosnia for a year....and then, we were only supposed to be in Kosovo for a year.... guess where we still are?
Oh, I forgot, that was your "Messiah" Clinton that said that, so that's ok...right?
From where do you get the idea that I like Clinton? Just because he's smarter and more articulate than Bush doesn't mean I like him. I mean, he's from Arkansas, for goodness sakes.
Quote
NOBODY with half a brain thought that...we spent longer than that on Desert Storm.
Yes, well, that explains why the Bush administration believed it, I suppose.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
Quote
Yes, well, that explains why the Bush administration believed it, I suppose.
Ok John... show me the proof, or admit you're just bashing.
Show me a direct, verifyable quote that says "We will be out of Iraq in "x" weeks, or "x" months".
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteQuote
Yes, well, that explains why the Bush administration believed it, I suppose.
Ok John... show me the proof, or admit you're just bashing.
Show me a direct, verifyable quote that says "We will be out of Iraq in "x" weeks, or "x" months".
I agree,, the administration never said we would be out quickly...but they certainly did imply that it would be a walk in the park.
Look, just go read that interview on Meet the Press. I will even give you the link:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/866526/posts
There is a part there where Cheney says that we will be there till a government is established. so that is indeed accurate. But he also states that we will not need alot of soldiers to do it. There is NOTHING to imply that he thinks is will be the protracted mess that it is.
Of course there is no direct quote. No politician would give an exact time period. But, read that transcript...or better yet, watch it, and tell me that the cheney does not mean "it will be easy". He mentions how little fighting will be done, etc. How can you read that and say that Cheney believed we would still be fighting a war (and yes, it IS still a war) to this day? The only way you can is if you have blinders on.
Not everything in the world is always in black and white quotes. If it was, things would be alot easier, wouldn't it?
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
Yes, well, that explains why the Bush administration believed it, I suppose.
Ok John... show me the proof, or admit you're just bashing.
Show me a direct, verifyable quote that says "We will be out of Iraq in "x" weeks, or "x" months".
I agree,, the administration never said we would be out quickly...but they certainly did imply that it would be a walk in the park.
Look, just go read that interview on Meet the Press. I will even give you the link:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/866526/posts
There is a part there where Cheney says that we will be there till a government is established. so that is indeed accurate. But he also states that we will not need alot of soldiers to do it. There is NOTHING to imply that he thinks is will be the protracted mess that it is.
Of course there is no direct quote. No politician would give an exact time period. But, read that transcript...or better yet, watch it, and tell me that the cheney does not mean "it will be easy". He mentions how little fighting will be done, etc. How can you read that and say that Cheney believed we would still be fighting a war (and yes, it IS still a war) to this day? The only way you can is if you have blinders on.
Not everything in the world is always in black and white quotes. If it was, things would be alot easier, wouldn't it?
I didn't think it would be quick or easy from the start. I don't think anyone did.
I do take issue with the dishonesty of misquoting someone to make it sound like the exact opposite. Sort of a "are you still beating your wife" question.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
billvon 3,116
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>we should stay until more stability is gained...
We are going to have even less luck with that than Israel is having. So what it will come down to is - how long are we willing to fight a forever war? Let 50,000 US soldiers die? Or pull out and watch 500,000 Iraqis die in a civil war?
What we really need is a democratic president for a term. Then the next time a republican is in office, he can pull the troops out (using language like "why should we support these ungrateful SOB's who don't even blah blah blah") and then blame the resulting mess on the democrats.
We are going to have even less luck with that than Israel is having. So what it will come down to is - how long are we willing to fight a forever war? Let 50,000 US soldiers die? Or pull out and watch 500,000 Iraqis die in a civil war?
What we really need is a democratic president for a term. Then the next time a republican is in office, he can pull the troops out (using language like "why should we support these ungrateful SOB's who don't even blah blah blah") and then blame the resulting mess on the democrats.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
Yes, well, that explains why the Bush administration believed it, I suppose.
Ok John... show me the proof, or admit you're just bashing.
Show me a direct, verifyable quote that says "We will be out of Iraq in "x" weeks, or "x" months".
I agree,, the administration never said we would be out quickly...but they certainly did imply that it would be a walk in the park.
Look, just go read that interview on Meet the Press. I will even give you the link:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/866526/posts
There is a part there where Cheney says that we will be there till a government is established. so that is indeed accurate. But he also states that we will not need alot of soldiers to do it. There is NOTHING to imply that he thinks is will be the protracted mess that it is.
Of course there is no direct quote. No politician would give an exact time period. But, read that transcript...or better yet, watch it, and tell me that the cheney does not mean "it will be easy". He mentions how little fighting will be done, etc. How can you read that and say that Cheney believed we would still be fighting a war (and yes, it IS still a war) to this day? The only way you can is if you have blinders on.
Not everything in the world is always in black and white quotes. If it was, things would be alot easier, wouldn't it?
I didn't think it would be quick or easy from the start. I don't think anyone did.
I do take issue with the dishonesty of misquoting someone to make it sound like the exact opposite. Sort of a "are you still beating your wife" question.
really, read the transcript and tell me that you don't think Cheney thought it would be simple. Not cost-free (he does say that), but simpler than it is.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
sinker 0
Quote>we should stay until more stability is gained...
We are going to have even less luck with that than Israel is having. So what it will come down to is - how long are we willing to fight a forever war? Let 50,000 US soldiers die? Or pull out and watch 500,000 Iraqis die in a civil war?
What we really need is a democratic president for a term. Then the next time a republican is in office, he can pull the troops out (using language like "why should we support these ungrateful SOB's who don't even blah blah blah") and then blame the resulting mess on the democrats.
gee bill, that's a really good solution...
-the artist formerly known as sinker
billvon 3,116
>gee bill, that's a really good solution...
There are no good solutions. We have to choose the lesser of many evils at this point. Sometimes you can't fix your screwups.
There are no good solutions. We have to choose the lesser of many evils at this point. Sometimes you can't fix your screwups.
Darius11 12
The only thing I hope for is that the group of people who love the sound of the war drum will not jump to the chance again. I hope they will use their common since and not just follow like sheep.
Then again we still have people who proudly say they support the war and the presidents decision.
I have a feeling they were delusional to begin with.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
Then again we still have people who proudly say they support the war and the presidents decision.
I have a feeling they were delusional to begin with.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
sinker 0
Quote>gee bill, that's a really good solution...
There are no good solutions. We have to choose the lesser of many evils at this point. Sometimes you can't fix your screwups.
that my friend is exactly what I was proposing... pulling out right now would be a greater evil than staying... that is unless you believe our soldiers lives are more valuable than the lives of many other innocent Iraqis our government have vowed to protect.
-the artist formerly known as sinker
__________________________________________________
And I guess that is part of my question here.
Since the invasion and occupation Iraq has become *less stable* not more stable.as far as I can tell.
What makes you think that any more occupation time will lead to a "more stable" Iraq?
Blues,
Cliff
how could it be anything BUT less stable after toppling a controlling homicidal regime? It will take time...
But it doesn't matter now... that is all in the past... now we are there, for better or worse, and we need to finish what we started. again, if we pull out before it's MORE stable, the loss of life will just that much higher... to be honest w/ you, I don't like it either...
-the artist formerly known as sinker