mr2mk1g 10 #126 September 15, 2005 QuoteKris is trying to bring God down to size...that is an obvious fact, and she is doing it through her silly post, that is an obvious fact too. ...in your judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #127 September 15, 2005 QuoteKris is trying to bring God down to size...that is an obvious fact, and she is doing it through her silly post, that is an obvious fact too. Enough with the "she" business, m'kay? This Kris has a penis. I wasn't trying to bring God / Allah / Buddah down to size. I merely disagreed with "your" opinion as to the validity of whether a certain # of words coinciding with a passage # equals truth. It's a numbers game, a shell, nothing more. Last time I checked, you were mortal and didn't have a direct line upstairs either.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #128 September 15, 2005 You may disagree...but since you don't know, and have never done an in depth study on the topic, and you are only guessing, how can you make an informed decision about whether it constitutes truth or not.?? Sorry for the misconception of your gender. Bill Cole. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #129 September 15, 2005 QuoteYou may disagree...but since you don't know, and have never done an in depth study on the topic, and you are only guessing, how can you make an informed decision about whether it constitutes truth or not.?? Sorry for the misconception of your gender. Apology accepted. As for me not knowing, how do you know I've not done study? Maybe not as much as you, but I was raised in a strict Catholic household and went to church and study twice a week until I was almost 18. However, that's not where I base my thoughts from. I base that from another area I know, and that's simple statistics and probabilities. Look into anything long enough and you can pull a pattern or data trend. I'm sure there are people who place great meaning in the numerology of Moby Dick, but I don't think that was Herman Melville's intent.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #130 September 15, 2005 If humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #131 September 15, 2005 Are you serious? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #132 September 15, 2005 >If humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? You're kidding - right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #133 September 15, 2005 QuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? <-- utterly speechless.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #134 September 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? <-- utterly speechless. Allow me to add to the speechlessness. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #135 September 15, 2005 QuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? Because there are still parts of the rain forest that we haven't yet destroyed?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #136 September 15, 2005 Just in case you're serious, and not asking a question intended to get folks to challenge their beliefs, there are still monkeys as well as humans for the same reason that some squirrels are flying squirrels, and others just fall to the ground. By the way, the monkeys continued to evolve, also. How else did we end up with chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans, with their different abilities and adaptations to the landscape and food sources where they live? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #137 September 15, 2005 QuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? This is a good basic article on evolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #138 September 15, 2005 QuoteQuote If we evolve to a dumber species, then we lose the ability to support ourselves, An even more important consideration, IMO, is - will we remember how to make beer? Pie. I am more concerned with if there will be enough pie. I like pie. So... Kris used to be a woman huh? No wonder you 'made the change' Kris - you were probably one helluva ugly woman! I used to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn... but I have since seen the errors of my ways and converted to Pastafarian. He is the one that created the mountains and trees and midgets. And His heaven has a beer volcano anyway... so... He has only just begun to deliever His word to His prophets. Give it about 1500 years, and I'm sure we'll have the complete story. Odd how religions evolve...it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #139 September 15, 2005 Yeah, one ugly woman, but apparently handsome wnough as a man to sucker Dagny into marrying me. As for Pastafarianism, long live the Flying Spaghetti Monster! I'm sure there's enough room in between God, Allah, Buddha, Cthulu and the rest. Besides, how can one turn down a good beer volcano?!Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #140 September 15, 2005 QuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? That was from a George Carlin skit, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #141 September 15, 2005 QuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? Amphibians and land animals evolved from sea creatures, so why are there still fish? Because the sea didn't go anywhere.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #142 September 15, 2005 QuoteOk, I've answered this point from you before, I'll do it again and hopefully this time I'll get a reply. The writing and signing of a piece of paper is a everyday occurence. I have witnessed many people sign bits of paper, I myself am capable of signing a piece of paper. Therefore, when I see a persons signiature on a piece of paper I am inclined to believe that they signed it. On the other hand I have never seen anyone rise from the dead, I know no-one who claims to have seen someone rise from the dead and to be quite honest I wouldn't like to attempt it myself. Therefore, when I read about someone rising from the dead I am inclined to disbelieve the account. So, how exactly does John Hancock signing the Declaration of Independance add weight to the ressurection? Sorry for the late reply. I’ve recently started a new job and it’s been time consuming. I haven’t been able to check this stuff every day like I used to. Anyway… My point was that you don’t prove the authenticity of a written document in the same way you’d prove a scientific experiment. Many people here state that is why they cannot believe what is written in the Bible (e.g. I can demonstrate scientifically that gravity exists over and over and, therefore, I believe it. I can’t do the same with the occurrences in the Bible, so I don’t.) On the other hand, they believe other historical documentation based on the reliable testimony of others long since deceased. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #143 September 15, 2005 By the time you go back a couple of thousand years, evaluating the reliability of any testimony becomes very very difficult. Is Homer's Iliad reliable testimony of the Trojan War?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #144 September 15, 2005 QuoteAs for Pastafarianism, long live the Flying Spaghetti Monster! I'm sure there's enough room in between God, Allah, Buddha, Cthulu and the rest. anyone else notice a striking simularity between images of the FSM and Cthulu? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #145 September 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf humans came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around? <-- utterly speechless. Allow me to add to the speechlessness. omg, OMG, OMFG... (not taking It in vain, btw) I just spewed Raisin Bran all over my keyboard. THROUGH MY NOSE!!! THROUGH MY FREAKIN' NOSE!!! I love you guys! Damn, this shit's sticky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #146 September 15, 2005 QuoteBy the time you go back a couple of thousand years, evaluating the reliability of any testimony becomes very very difficult. Is Homer's Iliad reliable testimony of the Trojan War? that is why you examine every book for what it is, a Text. Not history, not Truth. the problem becomes when people's beliefs get involved... how many christian's have no problems in believing in their miracles and resurrection tale, and yet will flat out refuse to believe that Achilles could not be harmed except by striking his heel? they have the EXACT same basis as 'fact'... both are stories told by an author, with little to no actual evidence to back the details and assertions, the only difference if the desire to believe in on over the other... when truth is determined soley by your DESIRE for it to be true you are operating on blind faith...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #147 September 15, 2005 QuoteSorry for the late reply. I’ve recently started a new job and it’s been time consuming. I haven’t been able to check this stuff every day like I used to. Anyway… Cool, hope its going well.QuoteMy point was that you don’t prove the authenticity of a written document in the same way you’d prove a scientific experiment. Many people here state that is why they cannot believe what is written in the Bible (e.g. I can demonstrate scientifically that gravity exists over and over and, therefore, I believe it. I can’t do the same with the occurrences in the Bible, so I don’t.) On the other hand, they believe other historical documentation based on the reliable testimony of others long since deceased. I understand that and I see where you are coming from, but I don't agree that belief in the legitimacy of some documents and not others is in any way hypocritical. I'll try an example, I am currently reading Herodotus' Histories, widely thought of as the first historical work, written in the 5thC BC. The focus of the work is the history of aggression and conflict between the Persian empire and Greece, Athens in particular. It also features accounts of the geography, anthropology and zoology of the known world. Now I believe that there was a war between Persia and Athens, and I believe that many of the main protagonists were who Herodotus said they were. However when he starts writing about giant gold mining ants and breeds of mutant sheep (some of which he claimed to have seen) then I treat those parts as amusing tales, nothing more. Similarly I believe there was a man named Jesus, I believe he had several followers and I believe he was crucified. When I hear about ressurections, multiplying fish and suchlike, then I start thinking about giant ants.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #148 September 15, 2005 QuoteI'll try an example, I am currently reading Herodotus' Histories, widely thought of as the first historical work, written in the 5thC BC. The focus of the work is the history of aggression and conflict between the Persian empire and Greece, Athens in particular. It also features accounts of the geography, anthropology and zoology of the known world. Now I believe that there was a war between Persia and Athens, and I believe that many of the main protagonists were who Herodotus said they were. However when he starts writing about giant gold mining ants and breeds of mutant sheep (some of which he claimed to have seen) then I treat those parts as amusing tales, nothing more. Similarly I believe there was a man named Jesus, I believe he had several followers and I believe he was crucified. When I hear about ressurections, multiplying fish and suchlike, then I start thinking about giant ants. Ok... Let's use your example and compare Herodotus with the New Testament of the Bible. Which do you think would be more reliable? Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #149 September 15, 2005 QuoteOk... Let's use your example and compare Herodotus with the New Testament of the Bible. Which do you think would be more reliable? Yikes, now that could get into a seriously deep conversation and one which I am not yet qualified to take part in. At the very least we'd have to get into definitions of 'reliable', the historical usefullness of texts which are not completely accurate, and degrees of unreliability. For instance, what would you consider less reliable, a fictional line of kings used to provide context to contemporary events, or a key conversation who's contents have been misrepresented? However off the top of my head I would say that in terms of events, people and places the NT may be the more accurate. That is just a guess though.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #150 September 15, 2005 In the very same that all life stemed from single cell organisms and there are still single cell organisms ( we call them politicians) - But seriously, it's called selective advantage. To see evolution in action today, you would only need to look at how viruses mutate and become imune to certain drug regimes...... . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
