pajarito 0 #101 September 14, 2005 QuoteWhat we observe of electrons is reproducible time and time and time again, consistently, by whomever the observer is. Individuals' perceptions often are incompatible....and then to choose what we think is correct or incorrect, sometimes we go with our gut, which probably is equivalent to "what we WANT to believe." Of course. You don't prove something happened in recorded history with the scientific method. No one alive today actually saw John Hancock sign the Declaration of Independence. I believe he actually did it, though, because reliable people recorded that he did and we've got his "John Hancock " on the document. It's not something you can prove over and over in a lab but I believe he did it. Don't you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #102 September 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat we observe of electrons is reproducible time and time and time again, consistently, by whomever the observer is. Individuals' perceptions often are incompatible....and then to choose what we think is correct or incorrect, sometimes we go with our gut, which probably is equivalent to "what we WANT to believe." Of course. You don't prove something happened in recorded history with the scientific method. No one alive today actually saw John Hancock sign the Declaration of Independence. I believe he actually did it, though, because reliable people recorded that he did and we've got his "John Hancock " on the document. It's not something you can prove over and over in a lab but I believe he did it. Don't you? Yeah....something about that signature lends a little credence. I also believe in God. BUT I recognize that the Bible is simply wrong on many, many counts....because the reliable evidence points to the contratry. The flaws are apparent. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #103 September 14, 2005 QuoteYeah....something about that signature lends a little credence. My point was that you don't prove the accuracy or reliability of a historical document in the same way you'd prove that an electron passed through an object. QuoteI also believe in God. BUT I recognize that the Bible is simply wrong on many, many counts....because the reliable evidence points to the contratry. The flaws are apparent. Gotta be more specific than that in order to discuss what you're talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #104 September 14, 2005 QuoteGotta be more specific than that in order to discuss what you're talking about. The easiest example was that the world was created in 6 days and that God rested on the 7th day. Hmmm ... carbon dating shows us that your bible is 100% wrong on this matter. As far as I'm concerned, this invalidates the entire bible. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #105 September 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteYeah....something about that signature lends a little credence. My point was that you don't prove the accuracy or reliability of a historical document in the same way you'd prove that an electron passed through an object. QuoteI also believe in God. BUT I recognize that the Bible is simply wrong on many, many counts....because the reliable evidence points to the contratry. The flaws are apparent. Gotta be more specific than that in order to discuss what you're talking about. Well...there is proof, there's a preponderance of the evidence, and there's complete subjectivity. It's a continuum. I tend to trust things MORE as they get more toward the "proof" side, and less as they tend toward the "subjective" side. That being said....there are some things that are totally subjective that I still believe in, BUT with enough evidence to the contrary, I'd probably, with some degree of sadness, let go of my need to believe....-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #106 September 14, 2005 QuoteWell...there is proof, there's a preponderance of the evidence, and there's complete subjectivity. It's a continuum. I tend to trust things MORE as they get more toward the "proof" side, and less as they tend toward the "subjective" side. That being said....there are some things that are totally subjective that I still believe in, BUT with enough evidence to the contrary, I'd, probably with some degree of sadness, let go of my need to believe.... Well...you're correct in that it's not provable beyond a doubt. However, I think there is a preponderance of evidence to show reliability and accuracy. That’s acceptable in my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #107 September 14, 2005 Yeah...in my mind there's enough "evidence" that God exists. And there's lots of evidence that the Bible is flawed--inaccurate on many counts. I still believe in the spirit of the Bible, and I still beleive in God. I don't believe in the Bible as any absolute authority--because I recognize that it is flawed. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #108 September 14, 2005 QuoteThe easiest example was that the world was created in 6 days and that God rested on the 7th day. Hmmm ... carbon dating shows us that your bible is 100% wrong on this matter. As far as I'm concerned, this invalidates the bible. Without getting into the specifics of that, why would that invalidate what Jesus said and did in the New Testament? Different books. Different authors. Different times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #109 September 14, 2005 QuoteOf course. You don't prove something happened in recorded history with the scientific method. No one alive today actually saw John Hancock sign the Declaration of Independence. I believe he actually did it, though, because reliable people recorded that he did and we've got his "John Hancock " on the document. It's not something you can prove over and over in a lab but I believe he did it. Don't you? Ok, I've answered this point from you before, I'll do it again and hopefully this time I'll get a reply. The writing and signing of a piece of paper is a everyday occurence. I have witnessed many people sign bits of paper, I myself am capable of signing a piece of paper. Therefore, when I see a persons signiature on a piece of paper I am inclined to believe that they signed it. On the other hand I have never seen anyone rise from the dead, I know no-one who claims to have seen someone rise from the dead and to be quite honest I wouldn't like to attempt it myself. Therefore, when I read about someone rising from the dead I am inclined to disbelieve the account. So, how exactly does John Hancock signing the Declaration of Independance add weight to the ressurection?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #110 September 14, 2005 Your statement of "evidence" that the Bible is wrong, is unclear because you don't present any evidence to back up your false claim. How much of the Bible have you really taken the time to do an in depth study on?? What wwere your findings, and did you ever write them down for posterity? Quite a few years agio, two men started an in depth study to prove that the Bible was wrong. They each set out in their own ways, not contacting each other for a lengthy period of time, and after several years they finally made contact to discuss their findings. Both had proved that the Bible is the infallible WORD of God, and had become born again servants of Jesus Christ. God created the world, an spanned theheavens, placed the planets in their orbits, hung the stars, and do you really think He could not be able to direct certain chosen men, guide them with His Holy Spirit, and bring their writings they had made over a 1500 year period to a perfect conclusion, without any mistakes. It amazes me that people can credit God with such great things, and then say, "but He couldnt write a book with 791,328 words, without making so many errors." The errors can be found in the newer versions such as the NIV ( I think it should be called the HIV, for it is a plague of mistakes),. Sorry, Lindsey, the Bible is a perfect work of a perfect God....without a flaw in either. Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #111 September 14, 2005 >Sorry, Lindsey, the Bible is a perfect work of a perfect God.... >without a flaw in either. Genesis 1 says man came after animals. Genesis 2 says man came before animals. Genesis 1 (KJV of course): And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 2: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. . . . And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #112 September 14, 2005 Quote Your statement of "evidence" that the Bible is wrong, is unclear because you don't present any evidence to back up your false claim. In this context, how do you present "evidence"? Quote How much of the Bible have you really taken the time to do an in depth study on?? I grew up in a fundamentalist christian family in the deep south. Bible reading was required. Even then, I found, and still find, the Bible to be an ambiguous and poorly wrriten document. Then, I look back at what my technical writer teachers taught me - WHO IS THE AUDIENCE for the document? IMO, the Bible's audience was a bunch of goat herders. And not just the Bible...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #113 September 14, 2005 QuoteQuite a few years agio, two men started an in depth study to prove that the Bible was wrong. They each set out in their own ways, not contacting each other for a lengthy period of time, and after several years they finally made contact to discuss their findings. Both had proved that the Bible is the infallible WORD of God, and had become born again servants of Jesus Christ. Who were they?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #114 September 15, 2005 Quote Who were they? I think Joseph Smith was one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #115 September 15, 2005 QuoteI think Joseph Smith was one of them. You are a very bad man Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #116 September 15, 2005 Well, Billvon, you are correct in quoting the scriptures, but you simply do not understand why they are written that way. I will try to explain, and hope your dubitativness and cynicism will allow you to ponder the truth of God's WORD. Genesis Chapter 1, and the first three verses of Ch 2, uses 864 words to tell of one complete creation. God made the heavensd and the earth in ONE day, which He saw fit to divide into 6 days. In the first three verses of Chapter 2, in 67 words, He gives a summation of that creation that was done over the 6 days, and then He carries on to retell, in more precise terms, exactly how the creation of man, and his mate, took place. There is absolutely NO contradiction at all. Read slowly, the 31 verses of Chapter 1 ( containing a total of 3167 letters), then read the summation of those 31 verses. Then carry on to read the more detailed explanation of portions of the creation that He told about in the 31 verses of Chapter 1 after the summation, which constitiutes the balance of Chapter 2. As what you might consider a "point of interest" ( but which is VERY much more than that, note how the number of letters used to describe the creation is 3167. ( I have counted them several times to be sure) The total verses to describe one creation is 31 verses of Chapter 1, and 67 words of Chapter 2.... this the same as the letters 31-67. Thats your lesson for today. regards Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #117 September 15, 2005 your posting shows volumes about what you never learned. Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #118 September 15, 2005 I no longer have their names, but it IS true, or I wouldnt have posted it. Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #119 September 15, 2005 QuoteThe total verses to describe one creation is 31 verses of Chapter 1, and 67 words of Chapter 2.... this the same as the letters 31-67. Thats your lesson for today. Here's your lesson for the day... Merriam - Webster's definition of "coincidence"Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #120 September 15, 2005 Soory...but the Lord God doesnt rely on coincidence. The things that are impossible with man are POSSIBLE with God ( Luke 18:27, Matthew 19:26). You are like all the others who can never rise to be like God, so you try to bring Him down to your level. Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #121 September 15, 2005 QuoteSoory...but the Lord God doesnt rely on coincidence. The things that are impossible with man are POSSIBLE with God ( Luke 18:27, Matthew 19:26). You are like all the others who can never rise to be like God, so you try to bring Him down to your level. Bill Cole . Well, at least you went ahead and judged Kris. Kudos to you. you are just like God. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #122 September 15, 2005 Get real...I wasnt judging anyone, just her silly post. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #123 September 15, 2005 QuoteGet real...I wasnt judging anyone, just her silly post. Not judging? Didn't you just call my post silly, merely because my opinion was contrary to yours? Oh, and by the way, I'm not a "her", I'm a "him".Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #124 September 15, 2005 QuoteYou are like all the others who can never rise to be like God, so you try to bring Him down to your level. The subject of the quoted sentence is Kris, not the post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #125 September 15, 2005 Kris is trying to bring God down to size...that is an obvious fact, and she is doing it through her silly post, that is an obvious fact too. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
