More on Hurricane relief

[storm1977 0]

Can someone please explain to me why everyone is up in arms over the response to rescue effort in NO.

Here is what I know.
Saturday, Mayor Nagin ordered a volentary Evac.
Sunday, Nevin ordered a Mandatory Evac of the City.
He stated all that do not leave are on their own and face a strong risk of death. Nagin However, did not do his job and use city busses to evacuate those who could not leave.
FEMA is NOT a first responder.
The NO webpage clearly states the City official are first responders and are responsible for ALL evacuations and first responces to events.
The Natn'l guard was not federalized prior to the storm (the job of the govenor) and therefore could not be put in place immediatly.

So, in all seriousness, why is the Federal Gov being blamed?

This Much I KNOW. I live in NY, and if a major storm was heading this way, we wouldn't have had the same problems NO is facing. Why? because our local and state governments are at least some competent.

Some people are crying racism, classism...etc.
The fact is the Mayor of NO is incompetent, and the Gov of LA is at the very least indecisive.
The Federal Government can NOT be expected to do all the work of the state and local Governments as well as their own.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[slug 1]

Intersting

[Gravitymaster 0]

From Mary Landrieu's website:

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DISASTER ASSISTANCE

Emergency management operations for disasters include three phases: preparedness, response, and recovery. In the preparedness phase, state and local governments administer emergency preparedness programs with ongoing activities to help ensure that they are ready to respond to disasters. The Louisiana Department of Emergency Preparedness is responsible for all initial damage assessment prior to federal involvement.

http://landrieu.senate.gov/services/agencies.cfm

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Can someone please explain to me why everyone is up in arms over the response to rescue effort in NO.

As of at least last Thursday, the head of FEMA was still publicly denying there were people in the NO convention center with no food or water.

That was long after any delay the Governor made before asking for federal help.

That was long after any time period when only first responders should be on the scene.

[kallend 2,175]

As a resident of the village of Flossmoor in the Great State of Illinois, I care about the competence of my mayor and the governor of Illinois. The incompetence (or otherwise) of Mayor Nagin and the Governor of LA do not interest me too much. If a disaster strikes IL, Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco won't have any impact on my survival or my family's.

OTOH the bulk of my taxes go to the federal government, so I care very much about the incompetence of Federal agencies and the political flunkies who direct them.

There, does that explain why I am more concerned with FEMA's obvious shortcomings?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FallRate 0]

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I care about the competence of my mayor and the governor of Illinois.

No wonder you're so cranky.

FallRate

[eaglenrider 0]

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Can someone please explain to me why everyone is up in arms over the response to rescue effort in NO.
__________________________________________________

I'm not quite sure but I have an inkling that it may have something to do with the needless massive loss of life after it was obvious this catastrophe was more than local officials could handle.

But that's just a guess.

Blues,
Cliff

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[slug 1]

Hi

Politic's

R.I.P.

[storm1977 0]

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Can someone please explain to me why everyone is up in arms over the response to rescue effort in NO.

As of at least last Thursday, the head of FEMA was still publicly denying there were people in the NO convention center with no food or water.

That was long after any delay the Governor made before asking for federal help.

That was long after any time period when only first responders should be on the scene.

Whether FEMA denigned that or not, wouldn't you still blame the local government for NOT providing food or water at either the Superdome or convention center?

Weren't they supposed to do that since they are the ones who are incharge of disater preparedness?

One can NOT expect that the buraucracies of the Federal Government can handle all the states problems immediately. It was upto the state and Local Governments to ask for that help. Something they did NOT do prior to the storm.

However, I do recall Mr. Bush declaring a "State of Emergency" prior to landfall of Katrina so that Funds could be allocated quickly when request by the STATE.
Again, this was not done.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[SkyDekker 1,465]

This is looking more like the classis finger pointing between right and left....But Clinton did this...

I agree that the local and state governments fucked up....and so did FEMA. I have posted earlier that situations like this indicate who the greta, or even good leaders are. Nobody in the federal government, including your president are showing any of that.

[storm1977 0]

i would disagree.

Here in the USA the states are independant.
The Feds can not just walk in and forceably do anything.

Look at the facks.
Bush declared a state of emergency 2 days before the storm so $$ could be allocated for relief.
Bush spoke with the Gov of LA to convince her to order a MANDITORY Evac of NO. She refused.

Bush through his advisors proactively tried to eliminate the potential problem with every power he had. Unfortunately the State and Local Governments would not listen or allow his plans to be put in place.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[slug 1]

Intersting read

W.S. collecting funds for Katrina Victims.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,23889-1770820,00.html

R.I.P.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Bush declared a state of emergency

So, Bush can declare a state of emergency, but federal agencies can't do anything...even though a state of emergency has been issued?

[kallend 2,175]

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i would disagree.

Here in the USA the states are independant.
The Feds can not just walk in and forceably do anything.

Look at the facks.
Bush declared a state of emergency 2 days before the storm so $$ could be allocated for relief.
Bush spoke with the Gov of LA to convince her to order a MANDITORY Evac of NO. She refused.

Bush through his advisors proactively tried to eliminate the potential problem with every power he had. Unfortunately the State and Local Governments would not listen or allow his plans to be put in place.

Bush also put an inexperienced political hack in charge of FEMA, redirected many of it's resources away from disaster relief, and demoted FEMA from a cabinet level organization.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,175]

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i would disagree.

Here in the USA the states are independant.
The Feds can not just walk in and forceably do anything.

Look at the facks.
Bush declared a state of emergency 2 days before the storm so $$ could be allocated for relief.
Bush spoke with the Gov of LA to convince her to order a MANDITORY Evac of NO. She refused.

Bush through his advisors proactively tried to eliminate the potential problem with every power he had. Unfortunately the State and Local Governments would not listen or allow his plans to be put in place.

Lets's hope a large meteorite never strikes a state capital then. We would wait for ever for the request for help to come.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Bush declared a state of emergency 2 days before the storm so $$ could be allocated for relief.

Exactly and in that declaration he mentioned the Stafford Act, didn't he. Exactly as it should be done. That decleration then authorizes FEMA to act.

So, FEMA was authorized to act prior to the Hurricane hitting. Yet, it seems there was quite the delay in FEMA acting after the hurricane hitting.

[nate_1979 9]

FEMA was about as effecient as an ultra-lite would be for a jumpship at a large DZ... Your right, heads need to roll at FEMA.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[rehmwa 2]

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Lets's hope a large meteorite never strikes a state capital then. We would wait for ever for the request for help to come.

If a large meteorite struck congress, would anyone ask for help? Or would we all just quietly pretend all is well and hope they forget to restaff congress for a while.

One thing I don't understand. If the Executive branch is mainly to be focused on foreign affairs, and the legislative is to mainly focus on domestic, how do all the congressmen get off griping about the pres instead of getting on a plane and entering NO with a few buckets. How dare they eat breakfast while "perfectly operating school buses" sit underwater. Don't they understand the "impression" this leaves on the public?

Isn't congress just as, if not more, responsible for addressing domestic issues?

I wonder just what kind of hypocrits these guys are.

In any case, maybe we can hope some judge somewhere "interprets" the 1st ammendment to mean we require the evacuation of all the remaining "refugees" using St Bernards and Ramen noodle ropes. Or, we can claim all of NO under imminent domain and 'evict' everyone from our new "future" parking garage construction site.

Then something will get done. Instead of "nothing".

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

While we're a it, I think we should blame the UN for not sending in any of those guys in blue berets to help with this. Where's their response? They're still sitting on their asses while people are dying, man. DYING!!!

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If the Executive branch is mainly to be focused on foreign affairs, and the legislative is to mainly focus on domestic

Nope. Incorrect. The executive branch manages implementation of Congressional directives. Which means that if Congress gives the executive branch 800 million dollars to shore up levees, the executive branch makes sure they get shored up. If Congress stops appropriating money for levees, then the executive branch can't do anything about those levees.

If the POTUS wants to go to war, the Congress can either decide to fund it or decide not to fund it. If Congress doesn't fund it, war is either noneixtent or very short.

Now, if the Executive Branch mismanages what it has, i.e., has personnel, equipment, supplies and cash at FEMA to manage a disaster, then the POTUS and his department heads can and should be blamed. On the other hand, if issues of federalism deprived the POTUS of authority to use those assets, then it is not his fault.

There is information that the state and local officials did not ask for assistance from the Federal government. For Bush to have mobilized FEMA and other forces, i.e., National Guard, would have been an unconstitutional usurpation of power.

While kallend prefers to believe that election year politicking was the reason for FEMA's effective response in Florida last year, there is yet another and simpler explanation.

FEMA hasn't changed much since last year in Florida, and FEMA seemed to do okay. On the other hand, state and local officials are different in NOLA and Florida. The Florida officials apparently did a better job of preparing and responding and coordinating with the Feds well before those hurricanes came through.

I think this may be rather important.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[storm1977 0]

very well put!

IMO and that of many others, it was the Local and State governments who were not prepared. As stated Bush declared a State of Emergency ahead of time so funding and people could get on the scene quickly. However, due to the laws in our country, the Federal Gov can not walk into the state and have authority to do anything without the permission of the State and Local autorities.

Even if (let's pretend) there were 10,000 Natl Guardsmen in NO during the storm, once it was over, they still DO NOT have the autority to act or take charge until permission is granted by the Govenor.

By law, local and State police have all the autority. PERIOD.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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There is information that the state and local officials did not ask for assistance from the Federal government. For Bush to have mobilized FEMA and other forces, i.e., National Guard, would have been an unconstitutional usurpation of power.

The request was made on August 27th, prior to the hurricane hitting. The state of emergency was declared on August 27th as well by the president, all under the Stafford Act.

The paperwork was all done, procedures were followed, just the action part didn't work out. That part is the POTUS and his department heads....

[storm1977 0]

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There is information that the state and local officials did not ask for assistance from the Federal government. For Bush to have mobilized FEMA and other forces, i.e., National Guard, would have been an unconstitutional usurpation of power.

The request was made on August 27th, prior to the hurricane hitting. The state of emergency was declared on August 27th as well by the president, all under the Stafford Act.

The paperwork was all done, procedures were followed, just the action part didn't work out. That part is the POTUS and his department heads....

What request?
What evidence do you have?

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[SkyDekker 1,465]

State asked for federal help on the 27th of August...prior to the Hurricane hitting. That was acknowledged by your beloved leader on that same day and a state of emergency was declared. That is all the federal agencies needed. So, the procedural stuff was all taken care of prior to the hurricane hitting...

yet, it seems they still fucked up.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

How did they fuck up? Have you not read what it means to be a state of emergency? Just because the govt issued it does not mean they go in there and get people out. The city was supposed to go by their OWN evac plan. They didnt.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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What request?
What evidence do you have?

The letter sent by governor Blanco to the president through the Regional FEMA office as per the Stafford Act.

I mean, you are so vocal about them not asking for assistance that I am assuming you actually checked this wasn't done right?!?!?

try google....