"You'll be on your own"

[panzwami 0]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3kt.htm

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NEW ORLEANS FLASHBACK: OFFICALS WARNED RESIDENTS 'YOU'LL BE ON YOUR OWN'
Mon Sep 05 2005 18:57:15 ET

Before residents had ever heard the words "Hurricane Katrina," the New Orleans TIMES-PICAYUNE ran a story warning residents: If you stay behind during a big storm, you'll be on your own!

Editors at TIMES-PICAYUNE on Monday called for every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency to be fired. In an open letter to President Bush, the paper said: "Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That's to the government's shame."

But the TIMES-PICAYUNE published a story on July 24, 2005 stating: City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give a historically blunt message: "In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own."

Staff writer Bruce Nolan reported some 7 weeks before Katrina: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation."

"In the video, made by the anti-poverty agency Total Community Action, they urge those people to make arrangements now by finding their own ways to leave the city in the event of an evacuation.

"You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the person next to you," Wilkins said in an interview. "If you have some room to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for that person outside the area. We can help you."

Developing...

[Gawain 0]

Sorry, but that flies in the face of comfortable "Bush-bashing" currently associated with his-custom-make-hurricane (you know that his fault too) and therefore this story which would say otherwise is also Bush's fault.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,110]

>But the TIMES-PICAYUNE published a story on July 24, 2005 stating:
> City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give a
> historically blunt message: "In the event of a major hurricane,
> you're on your own."

That's exactly what they should say. No one should rely on rescue. That way you get more people out, and it becomes easier to evacuate the remaining foolish/poor/stupid/deaf/immobile/insane people.

Sorta like a skydiving waiver, which says in no uncertain terms "you can die if you do this" and "you have no expectation of any level of care." Doesn't mean that you'd expect people to abandon you if you break your back landing in a tree. Heck, if it happened to someone at my DZ, and heard them screaming for help, I might even help them without calling them a hypocrite.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Heck, if it happened to someone at my DZ, and heard them screaming for help, I might even help them without calling them a hypocrite.

They wouldn't be a hypocrtic unless they criticized you for taking too long and not doing enough to help.

Derek

[flyangel2 2]

So do we just leave them to be on their own?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[billvon 3,110]

>They wouldn't be a hypocrtic unless they criticized you for taking too
>long and not doing enough to help.

I think most people would get mad if they spun in under a tension knot, broke their back, then waited for a week until someone finally got around to helping them. I bet you'd even claim that a drop zone that did that wasn't such a good DZ - even if the guy signed the waiver.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I think most people would get mad if they spun in under a tension knot, broke their back, then waited for a week until someone finally got around to helping them.

Not if help had to come from another state and get though flooded areas and rescue 10,000+ other people that spun in under a tension knot and broke their backs too. Especially if they could have cut away and deployed their reserves and avoided needing to be rescued in the first place.

Derek

[FallRate 0]

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So do we just leave them to be on their own?

No. They should receive help and are receiving help.

It does appear that the Editors are being hypocritical. But not necessarily. It may be that they expected difficulties, for whatever reason, in receiving aid for those that would stay in New Orleans in the event of an emergency such as this. That doesn't mean that they necessarily agreed with the situation. They may have noticed that insufficient planning was being done prior to this and ultimately made the decision to inform their readers that they are on their own. Again it doesn't mean that they believed New Orleans residents who stay behind should be on their own, just that they will be.

It's hard to know without having read the full original story.

Edited to add: I think the skydiving analogy, while it has its merits, is clouding the issue.

FallRate

[Lindsey 0]

So do we just leave them to be on their own?

No. I sure don't think so. I think in a crisis you help, regardless of why the problem exists in the first place.

BUT....if people would depend more on their own resources and take some responsibility for their own situations, then solving their problems would probably be a little less overwhelming. But since people DIDN'T find a way to leave and since they ARE there, then there's no doubt they should be helped.....

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Not if help had to come from another state and get though flooded areas and rescue 10,000+ other people that spun in under a tension knot and broke their backs too. Especially if they could have cut away and deployed their reserves and avoided needing to be rescued in the first place.

Of course if you had a few days advance notice of what was going to happen, some extra precautions could be taken by the drop zone.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Of course if you had a few days advance notice of what was going to happen, some extra precautions could be taken by the drop zone.

No one thought it would be that bad. Or at least no one that was in a position to do something about it.

Derek

[tso-d_chris 0]

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No one thought it would be that bad. Or at least no one that was in a position to do something about it.

I've been hearing for at least a couple years that this would happen if New Orleans took a direct hit from a big hurricane. Have you heard of the hurricane Pam scenario?

They knew what was going to happen. Funding was requested to help mitigate the situation. Funding was denied.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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They knew what was going to happen.

So you are saying they intentionally let all those people die? They intentionally didn't tell people that NO was going to be underwater and to get out now in addition to issuing a mandatory evac order? They intentionally delayed the relief effort to kill more victims? They knew exactly how bad it was going to be and let people die?

I do not believe that.

Derek

[flyangel2 2]

I agree with you and Fallrate. Helping them because they are fellow human beings and Americans, is the right thing to do.

Maybe we will learn from our past mistakes. Maybe, just some day we will learn.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[tso-d_chris 0]

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So you are saying they intentionally let all those people die? They intentionally didn't tell people that NO was going to be underwater and to get out now in addition to issuing a mandatory evac order? They intentionally delayed the relief effort to kill more victims? They knew exactly how bad it was going to be and let people die?

I do not believe that.

Let me put it another way. A week and a half ago, in a conversation I was having with a couple jumpers, we talked about how New Orleans was going to be underwater if Katrina hit nearly directly as a strong hurricane.

If three skydivers in Florida knew what was going to happen, why didn't Bush and FEMA?

Common sense dictates that if an evacuation is truly mandatory and absolutely necessary, those that are unable to evacuate themselves will require assistance, either getting out before the storm, or dealing with the aftermath.

[burbleflyer 0]

All you sheeple planning on the .gov to save you in the event of a disaster better wake up.

The .gov is not responsible for your well being, Democrat or Republican no matter what they'd like you to think or you would like to believe.

If you dont have a way out, make sure have a way to stay in. Food, water, generator, gas, batteries, guns, ammunition...

It's all there for you to see on the TV. We are all three meals away from anarchy and lawlessness and if you dont plan for your own survival you may well be doomed.

Look at the shape the country is in now with one city destroyed.

Do you think the terrorists are not watching this and learning from it? I'd say if they have the capability, they are planning an attack right now. Hit your enemy when he is weakest.

Plan for the worst.

[flyangel2 2]

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Do you think the terrorists are not watching this and learning from it? I'd say if they have the capability, they are planning an attack right now. Hit your enemy when he is weakest.

Plan for the worst.

Yup, just what I was thinking about today.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[nate_1979 9]

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Common sense dictates that if an evacuation is truly mandatory and absolutely necessary, those that are unable to evacuate themselves will require assistance, either getting out before the storm, or dealing with the aftermath.

I think I need to program a macro to say this, as many times as I've had to repeat it... THE LOCAL GOV'T IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVACTUATIONS. They didnt do shit, there are yards of buses under water that could have gotten people out during this evacuation (as spelled out in the state evacuation plan!) The city of NO IMO is run by a bunch of fucking idiots that screwed their own people by not getting them out before the damage was done.

There is much more to this than "BUSH and FEMA"

shit.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Let me put it another way. A week and a half ago, in a conversation I was having with a couple jumpers, we talked about how New Orleans was going to be underwater if Katrina hit nearly directly as a strong hurricane.

If three skydivers in Florida knew what was going to happen, why didn't Bush and FEMA?

Bush and FEMA were supposed to kow the levys would fail? They were supposed to know that 22 water-proof pumps would stop working when they got wet?

Did FEMA make mistakes? Sure. But if "three skydivers in Florida knew what was going to happen", then how come the NO residents that could leave, couldn't figure out what was going to happen?

Of course everything possible should be done to help these people, but it pisses me off to hear them complain about the relief effort.

I don't think it was as obvious as you think it was. The people that are experts on the subject didn't think it would be this bad.

FEMA is doing the best they can, everyone is.

I was really pissed that some of the victims were yelling profanities at the relief convoy. The soldiers bringing in those supplies were doing the best they could, working hard to help those people and got cussed for their efforts. That isn't right. Those helicopter pilots and crewmen are working their tails off to rescue people. They don't deserve to hear, "What took you so fucking long." or "Thanks for nothing."

Derek

[tso-d_chris 0]

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The .gov is not responsible for your well being, Democrat or Republican no matter what they'd like you to think or you would like to believe.

I think this situation falls under "insure domestic tranquility" and "promote the general welfare" requirements of the federal government.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Bush and FEMA were supposed to kow the levys would fail?

Yes.

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Did FEMA make mistakes? Sure. But if "three skydivers in Florida knew what was going to happen", then how come the NO residents that could leave, couldn't figure out what was going to happen?

Are you implying that everyone that stayed wanted to stay? The evacuation is to minimize the number of people that need emergency services, not as a way to get out of the responsibility of providing those services.

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FEMA is doing the best they can with the incompetent leadership they have.

There. I fixed it for you.

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I was really pissed that some of the victims were yelling profanities at the relief convoy. The soldiers bringing in those supplies were doing the best they could, working hard to help those people and got cussed for their efforts. That isn't right. Those helicopter pilots and crewmen are working their tails off to rescue people. They don't deserve to hear, "What took you so fucking long." or "Thanks for nothing."

Having not walked in those victims shoes, I'm certainly not in a position to judge them. I might be going out on a limb here, but a week in a life or death situation might be a little stressful, especially when there is no reason the wait should have been that long.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Are you implying that everyone that stayed wanted to stay?

No, but there was people that could have left that didn't and are now complaining about the relief effort.

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There. I fixed it for you.

Send in your application for the position.

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Having not walked in those victims shoes, I'm certainly not in a position to judge them. I might be going out on a limb here, but a week in a life or death situation might be a little stressful, especially when there is no reason the wait should have been that long.

If you could have left and didn't, you don't have anyone to blame for a week of suck but yourself. In fact, you have to right to expect rescue at all. Having been in a self-imposed life or death situation (more than once) I have walked in their shoes. In one particular instance, I could have called in the cavalry, but chose to either get out of the situation myself or die trying. I got myself into the situation and had no right to expect to be rescued. I fully expected to die that night.

Derek

[eaglenrider 0]

So you are saying they intentionally let all those people die? They intentionally didn't tell people that NO was going to be underwater and to get out now in addition to issuing a mandatory evac order? They intentionally delayed the relief effort to kill more victims? They knew exactly how bad it was going to be and let people die?
__________________________________________________

It is a certain fact that the Army Corps of Engineers blew a portion of the levy which would flood the poorer sections of the city inorder to relieve the stress on the portions of the levy protecting the more wealthy sections.

Blues,
Cliff

[nate_1979 9]

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So you are saying they intentionally let all those people die? They intentionally didn't tell people that NO was going to be underwater and to get out now in addition to issuing a mandatory evac order? They intentionally delayed the relief effort to kill more victims? They knew exactly how bad it was going to be and let people die?
__________________________________________________

It is a certain fact that the Army Corps of Engineers blew a portion of the levy which would flood the poorer sections of the city inorder to relieve the stress on the portions of the levy protecting the more wealthy sections.

Blues,
Cliff

LOL

That's the biggest crock of shit.... OMG... seriously... HA!

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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No, but there was people that could have left that didn't and are now complaining about the relief effort.

And there are also people that couldn't leave that are now dead because FEMA and their governments failed them.

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If you could have left and didn't, you don't have anyone to blame for a week of suck but yourself. In fact, you have to right to expect rescue at all.

But many, if not most, couldn't leave without additional resources. I suppose you think it is their fault they live in poverty or poor health?

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Having been in a self-imposed life or death situation (more than once) I have walked in their shoes. In one particular instance, I could have called in the cavalry, but chose to either get out of the situation myself or die trying. I got myself into the situation and had no right to expect to be rescued. I fully expected to die that night.

You are again assuming they stayed by choice. Some did. Many didn't have the option of leaving. The primary mode of evacuation was to be personal vehicles. Not everybody can afford a car. Many that can cannot afford anything reliable enough to go very far. Many could not afford the $2+ per gallon of gas.