Links to SE LA evacuation plans.

[burbleflyer 0]

Here's links to SE LA evac/emergency plans.

For those who wish to arm themselves with facts, not the reckless and unfounded speculation being tossed about in the mass media, regarding what specific, prescribed procedures SHOULD have been followed vs. what the Mayor of New Orleans and Gov. of Louisiana actually did.

And yes, I believe it is damning.

http://www.loep.state.la.us/plans/eopindex.htm

[flyangel2 2]

http://www.loep.state.la.us/plans/eopindex.htm

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[billvon 3,120]

>I believe it is damning.

In what way?

[burbleflyer 0]

Quote

>I believe it is damning.

In what way?

Did you read it?

ETA: LA had an emergency plan to deal with this exact scenario yet they did not implement it. That makes those in charge of implementing the plan look pretty bad.

If you think .gov is responsible for your personal well being then it falls to the local and state governments to do that.
This is a Constitutional Republic after all.

[billvon 3,120]

>Did you read it?

Yep; skimmed through it and the attachements. It's a boilerplate emergency management document. San Diego has a very similar one. My company has one too. My company's is 350 pages long, and contains much the same boilerplate i.e.

"The Safety Coordinator shall:
Coordinate with the department, agency or office having the primary responsibility for each function. Learn what types of support and what kinds of actions are required. Develop detailed implementing procedures for all support functions, to include the procedures by which the office will be alerted and activated for 24-hour operations if requested to do so by the primary agency."

So a lot of general direction, not too heavy on specifics.

Some tidbits though:

"A. If transportation needs exceed available resources, the ESF 1 Coordinator will report the situation to the Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, which will seek additional resources from EMAC and from the federal government pursuant to a Presidential Disaster Declaration."

"Mandatory:
This is the final, most serious phase of evacuation. Authorities
will put maximum emphasis on encouraging evacuation and
limiting ingress. Designated State evacuation routes maybe
augmented by turning additional lanes into one-way outbound
traffic and the State Police with Local law enforcement assistance
will assume responsibility for traffic control on those routes. As
the storm gets close to the Southeast Region, evacuation routes
will be closed and the people remaining will be directed to last resort refuges."

-----------------------------
4. The Area is protected by an extensive levee system, but above-normal
water levels and hurricane surge could cause levee overtopping or
failures.
5. It will take a long time to evacuate large numbers of people from the
Region.
6. The road systems used for evacuations are limited, and many of the
roadways are near bodies of water and susceptible to flooding.
7. The combined population of the Region is approximately 1,694,805
(1990 Census, as amended July 1, 1999), of whom the majority are at
risk from a hurricane (Annex C).
8. Many of the Region's emergency shelter facilities may be inundated by
floodwaters when threatened by a slow moving Category 3 or above
hurricane. Sheltering of evacuees outside of the Region becomes
necessary.
9. In most emergencies the number of persons needing public shelter will
be limited. In the event of a catastrophic hurricane, however, the
evacuation of over a million people from the Southeast Region could
overwhelm normally available shelter resources.
----------------------

The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.

------------------------

7. A portion of the public will act in their best interest and voluntarily
evacuate the high-risk areas before a recommended evacuation
announcement.
8. Voluntary evacuation will be advised well in advance of landfall. Much
of the public will evacuate high-risk areas when recommended by local
authorities. Most will evacuate following a mandatory evacuation
order.

---------------------------

[burbleflyer 0]

Edit because my board code sucks. See next post.

[burbleflyer 0]

Quote

>Did you read it?

Yep; skimmed through it and the attachements. It's a boilerplate emergency management document. San Diego has a very similar one. My company has one too. My company's is 350 pages long, and contains much the same boilerplate i.e.

"The Safety Coordinator shall:
Coordinate with the department, agency or office having the primary responsibility for each function. Learn what types of support and what kinds of actions are required. Develop detailed implementing procedures for all support functions, to include the procedures by which the office will be alerted and activated for 24-hour operations if requested to do so by the primary agency."

Quote

I hardly think the evacuation plans of 1.6 million people are "boilerplate". That is intellectually dishonest on your part.

So a lot of general direction, not too heavy on specifics.

Quote

Plenty of specifics, you left them out.

Some tidbits though:

"A. If transportation needs exceed available resources, the ESF 1 Coordinator will report the situation to the Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, which will seek additional resources from EMAC and from the federal government pursuant to a Presidential Disaster Declaration."

Quote

Transport need didnt excedd the 200 school buses left to flounder or the 350 city transit buses that were never even called into service.

"Mandatory:
This is the final, most serious phase of evacuation. Authorities
will put maximum emphasis on encouraging evacuation and
limiting ingress. Designated State evacuation routes maybe
augmented by turning additional lanes into one-way outbound
traffic and the State Police with Local law enforcement assistance
will assume responsibility for traffic control on those routes. As
the storm gets close to the Southeast Region, evacuation routes
will be closed and the people remaining will be directed to last resort refuges."

-----------------------------
4. The Area is protected by an extensive levee system, but above-normal
water levels and hurricane surge could cause levee overtopping or
failures.
5. It will take a long time to evacuate large numbers of people from the
Region.
6. The road systems used for evacuations are limited, and many of the
roadways are near bodies of water and susceptible to flooding.
7. The combined population of the Region is approximately 1,694,805
(1990 Census, as amended July 1, 1999), of whom the majority are at
risk from a hurricane (Annex C).
8. Many of the Region's emergency shelter facilities may be inundated by
floodwaters when threatened by a slow moving Category 3 or above
hurricane. Sheltering of evacuees outside of the Region becomes
necessary.
9. In most emergencies the number of persons needing public shelter will
be limited. In the event of a catastrophic hurricane, however, the
evacuation of over a million people from the Southeast Region could
overwhelm normally available shelter resources.
----------------------

The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.

Quote

You didnt post the rest of this 'tidbit', here it is:5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.
School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles
provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation
for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in
evacuating. Have you seen the pic of the 200 drowned buses?

------------------------

7. A portion of the public will act in their best interest and voluntarily
evacuate the high-risk areas before a recommended evacuation
announcement.
8. Voluntary evacuation will be advised well in advance of landfall. Much
of the public will evacuate high-risk areas when recommended by local
authorities. Most will evacuate following a mandatory evacuation
order.

While Rome burned, Nero fiddled.

---------------------------

[slug 1]

[billvon 3,120]

>That is intellectually dishonest on your part.

?? I've read almost identical verbiage in our plan. It's boilerplate. So-and-so shall formulate an emergency response plan and coordinate with so-and-so to determine appropriate action to support the EFS-2S emergency procedure. The details are in the addendums.

>While Rome burned, Nero fiddled.

Nero would be . . . Bush? Brown? Blanco? Chertoff? Nagin?

I'm not sure what point you're driving towards here. Since this is Speaker's Corner, could you just tell me who you're trying to bash? The people who didn't evacuate? The city of New Orleans? Louisiana? FEMA? That way I'd understand where you're going with all this.

[namgrunt 0]

order of bashing (not political correct)

#1 residents that did not evacuate

#2 local political leaders (did not lead)

#3 state leaders (did not lead)

#4 fed. slow to respond after finally being asked

#5 NO has a reputation of coruption with a general population of poor,welfare ,criminal

in the best of times it was not safe to walk in areas of NO for afluent white folks ,been there done that seen it

it does not suprise me that 200/300 police officers out of 1400 did not show up for work and those that did joined the looters

fire dept. personell continued to be professional and reported to work

shelters became relocated getos w/o law enforcement as getos did not have law enf. before .

it is expected that 50/75% of relocated poor will stay where ever the system took them to ,thus when NO reopenes it will be safer and cleaner.


..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[kallend 2,151]

General observation: I'm sure my suburb and the city of Chicago where I work each have evacuation plans. I do not know a single individual who knows what those plans are, and what their personal responsibility is within those plans. I have no idea what preferred routes are specified, or whether use of personal vehicles is encouraged or discouraged. Hence, if an evacuation was ordered I would expect total chaos on the streets.

In addition, I seriously doubt the streets have the capacity to evacuate the metropolitan area completely in 24 hours even if everyone cooperated and knew their role..

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[burbleflyer 0]

Quote

order of bashing (not political correct)

#1 residents that did not evacuate

#2 local political leaders (did not lead)

#3 state leaders (did not lead)

#4 fed. slow to respond after finally being asked

#5 NO has a reputation of coruption with a general population of poor,welfare ,criminal

in the best of times it was not safe to walk in areas of NO for afluent white folks ,been there done that seen it

it does not suprise me that 200/300 police officers out of 1400 did not show up for work and those that did joined the looters

fire dept. personell continued to be professional and reported to work

shelters became relocated getos w/o law enforcement as getos did not have law enf. before .

it is expected that 50/75% of relocated poor will stay where ever the system took them to ,thus when NO reopenes it will be safer and cleaner.


..

I'll buy that.

You guys need to read my first post again then read the evac plans again.
If you cant figure out who was supposed to do what and when by reading the evac plans then I cant help you.

Kallend, if you know you cant get out, are you prepared to survive for a week or two in the event of disaster?

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

Quote

order of bashing (not political correct)

#1 residents that did not evacuate

#2 local political leaders (did not lead)

#3 state leaders (did not lead)

#4 fed. slow to respond after finally being asked

#5 NO has a reputation of coruption with a general population of poor,welfare ,criminal

in the best of times it was not safe to walk in areas of NO for afluent white folks ,been there done that seen it

it does not suprise me that 200/300 police officers out of 1400 did not show up for work and those that did joined the looters

fire dept. personell continued to be professional and reported to work

shelters became relocated getos w/o law enforcement as getos did not have law enf. before .

it is expected that 50/75% of relocated poor will stay where ever the system took them to ,thus when NO reopenes it will be safer and cleaner.


..

I'll buy that.

You guys need to read my first post again then read the evac plans again.
If you cant figure out who was supposed to do what and when by reading the evac plans then I cant help you.

Kallend, if you know you cant get out, are you prepared to survive for a week or two in the event of disaster?

What if my intention is to get out, and on my way out I am thwarted because of chaos, congestion, etc.?

Seems that too many are anxious to blame the victims based on unproven assumptions that they were too lazy/stupid to get out.

I guess you're just trying to divert attention from Bush's emasculation of FEMA and placing a political flunky at its head.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

order of bashing (not political correct)

#1 residents that did not evacuate

#2 local political leaders (did not lead)

#3 state leaders (did not lead)

#4 fed. slow to respond after finally being asked

#5 NO has a reputation of coruption with a general population of poor,welfare ,criminal

in the best of times it was not safe to walk in areas of NO for afluent white folks ,been there done that seen it

it does not suprise me that 200/300 police officers out of 1400 did not show up for work and those that did joined the looters

fire dept. personell continued to be professional and reported to work

shelters became relocated getos w/o law enforcement as getos did not have law enf. before .

it is expected that 50/75% of relocated poor will stay where ever the system took them to ,thus when NO reopenes it will be safer and cleaner.


..

I'll buy that.

You guys need to read my first post again then read the evac plans again.
If you cant figure out who was supposed to do what and when by reading the evac plans then I cant help you.

Kallend, if you know you cant get out, are you prepared to survive for a week or two in the event of disaster?

What if my intention is to get out, and on my way out I am thwarted because of chaos, congestion, etc.?

Seems that too many are anxious to blame the victims based on unproven assumptions that they were too lazy/stupid to get out.

I guess you're just trying to divert attention from Bush's emasculation of FEMA and placing a political flunky at its head.

And I guess you're just trying to divert attention from the Democratic governor's failure to carry out evacuation plans..... shoe works just as well on the other foot, doesn't it John?

Nobody here is saying that FEMA didn't get moving as fast as they could have... all we're saying is that it is not totally FEMA's fault. The city and state governments share blame in not enacting evacuation plans before the hurricane hit.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

order of bashing (not political correct)

#1 residents that did not evacuate

#2 local political leaders (did not lead)

#3 state leaders (did not lead)

#4 fed. slow to respond after finally being asked

#5 NO has a reputation of coruption with a general population of poor,welfare ,criminal

in the best of times it was not safe to walk in areas of NO for afluent white folks ,been there done that seen it

it does not suprise me that 200/300 police officers out of 1400 did not show up for work and those that did joined the looters

fire dept. personell continued to be professional and reported to work

shelters became relocated getos w/o law enforcement as getos did not have law enf. before .

it is expected that 50/75% of relocated poor will stay where ever the system took them to ,thus when NO reopenes it will be safer and cleaner.


..

I'll buy that.

You guys need to read my first post again then read the evac plans again.
If you cant figure out who was supposed to do what and when by reading the evac plans then I cant help you.

Kallend, if you know you cant get out, are you prepared to survive for a week or two in the event of disaster?

What if my intention is to get out, and on my way out I am thwarted because of chaos, congestion, etc.?

Seems that too many are anxious to blame the victims based on unproven assumptions that they were too lazy/stupid to get out.

I guess you're just trying to divert attention from Bush's emasculation of FEMA and placing a political flunky at its head.

And I guess you're just trying to divert attention from the Democratic governor's failure to carry out evacuation plans..... shoe works just as well on the other foot, doesn't it John?

Nobody here is saying that FEMA didn't get moving as fast as they could have... all we're saying is that it is not totally FEMA's fault. The city and state governments share blame in not enacting evacuation plans before the hurricane hit.

What do you mean? How many of the 1.3M residents of the NO metro area got out? On what data do you base your claim?

Do you really expect 100% effectiveness of any plan that's never been tested in action, with untrained civilians? I don't think even the US Army has a 100% effectiveness record.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[namgrunt 0]

on a personal note

I live north of atlanta ga.
in the event something occures there ,wife and I know what to do.
WE have planned ,supplies stocked,fuel ,water,food medical, generator etc.

WE will not wait for FEMA,STATE,LOCAL or FEDERAL gov to save protect us.

seams like so many folks look to uncle sugar for a check they forget they have a duty to look after themselves also.

so often EVERYONE has an excuse ,its someones elses fault ,someone needs to do somethin to help them.

I for 1 hope I never have to depend on any gov. agency to take care of me.

interesting that local gov. searched folks that entered shelter of last hope in NO ,them 1% of the folks there could control the outher 99%
rape,assult,theft etc.

now wonder why gov. wants us to surender our arms????


..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[billvon 3,120]

>so often EVERYONE has an excuse ,its someones elses
>fault ,someone needs to do somethin to help them.

I've heard dozens of people complain, not half a million. 99% of the people of New Orleans packed up and moved, or stayed and weathered the storm. There will always be people so incapable of taking care of themselves that they have to be saved, whether because they have no feet, are complete idiots, are insane, have to take care of a child, can't lug their O2 tank etc. So sometimes you DO have to do something to help them; that's considered compassion.

[kallend 2,151]

I'm glad you are so self-sufficient.

Let's hope you can still do that when you are 92 and are legally blind, have emphysema, angina, dementia and arthritis.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[namgrunt 0]

you missed my point

that .0001% of the population unable to medically to take care of themselves must be taken care of.
did you notice on tv ALL the 300lb. females with a clutch of children ,drawing a check at the dome.the males ,running around looting,scumbags all

if you are able you have a responsibility to take care of yourself first,second and third.then help outhers unable or unwilling to take care of themselves. it is about a mindset of what can the gov. do for me today?
those folks stayed now are paying the price for there action.
I chose NOT to live in an area 9/12 feet below sea level in an area prone to hurricanes.
I chose NOT to depend on a levi to protect everything I own includeing my life.
people MUST understand no one can depend on outhers or the gov. to take as good of care of them as they themselves can or should.

if they make bad choices they suffer .

I chose to jump with a reserve,rsl,cypress, and did not depend on outhers to guarintee my safety.

if I did not do that and my main failed should I expect the gov.,faa,dso,to be at fault for


.. letting me be stupid?

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[billvon 3,120]

>if they make bad choices they suffer .

Agreed. And since we have compassion, we help them anyway.

>I chose to jump with a reserve,rsl,cypress, and did not depend on
>outhers to guarintee my safety.

That's great. And if you got hurt anyway, other skydivers, and then the local emergency services, would help you out. Heck, I'd _expect_ someone to come to the DZ if I saw you bounce and I called 911.

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

you missed my point

that .0001% of the population unable to medically to take care of themselves must be taken care of.
?

0.0001% is 1 in 1,000,000

Apparently you believe there was only 1 person in the entire NOLA metro area unable to take care of his or herself (adjusted to the nearest integer, since people don't come in fractions). Which particular bedridden patient were you thinking of, the only one that deserved help?

I'm glad my neighbors are not like you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nate_1979 9]

I wish more people were like him, willing to accept responsibility when it comes to taking care of himself.

There are exceptions, those people who truely are unable to help themselves, and we must have a system setup to help them.. But I dont feel this was the case for alot of those people in that city.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

I wish more people were like him, willing to accept responsibility when it comes to taking care of himself.

There are exceptions, those people who truely are unable to help themselves, and we must have a system setup to help them.. But I dont feel this was the case for alot of those people in that city.

What you "feel" and the facts may not have any connection with each other. Until real data are available, this speculation about the possible culpable actions of the victims is quite unwarranted.

And the specific item I took issue with in his post was his statement that only one in a million people needed assistance. That is both absurd and uncaring.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.