Katrina - Shit pissing me off

[nate_1979 9]

DHS does have some responsibility.. But not "front line" responsibilty, they should not be the first response, that should come from something more local. It did not in this case..

As you said, not exclusive

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Guest]

If a cat 5 storm is headed your way (and I hope it never does), will you wait around for it or leave?

Why will you not wait for some government entity to rescue you? Because you can think for youself.

These people loitering around the destroyed city can't and didn't think or take care of themselves. It is not a new behavior, but a continuation of their current behavior. If the Left would have a serious discussion with itself about the failures of the welfare state I would respect that.

But you folks don't. You just blame President Bush. The hatred for GWB from the Left will rightly be remembered as part of the canvas the history of this decade is written on. Like drugs in the 60s or jeans in the 70s, the lefties hate Bush. But it doesn't accomplish a thing.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Michele 1]

Quote

New Orleans residents had no idea the actual severity of this storm, all they were told is to take over, for god sakes they told us to take cover in Florida everytime a damn hurricane came through, most people probably thought it would be bad but not bad enough to leave..

Sorry. Gotta totally disagree.

I knew about the storm, and I live in Los Angeles. I knew it had wind gusts to over 200 mph. I knew it had sustained winds of over 170 mph. I knew the storm surge was going to be 25 feet high in some places. They were told to evacuate. Mandatory. Which means, leave now. And it wasn't because of the television, or radio. People here were discussing it. It wouldn't even directly affect us, and we were talking about it.

I recall posting here on a thread about it to someone who'd thought she might stay. Thankfully, with enough pressure from the boards and other folks, she (who couldn't afford to leave) took herself, her SO, the animals, and her rigs and got out. She is alive. This was BEFORE the storm hit. I knew, living here in EQ land, enough about this storm to add my voice to the pressure. And if I knew, I know that hundreds of thousands - millions - knew.

People knew. Most evacuated. Some stayed. Some people may not have been able to leave; some because they actually couldn't figure out a way; some because of a misguided sense that the government is magical; some because they are opportunists and realized if they could survive the storm, there would a chance to take whatever they wanted from abandoned houses and stores.

So people knew. I was thinking, if something of that magnitude (or even lesser) was heading my way, there's very little I would worry about, and I'd find the way to get out with my gear, my cats, and enough food/water for 7 days...plus extra, if I could, so I could help those who'd not prepared, or couldn't carry enough for them. And I'd take my gun. The single, solitary reason I would stay is because my father refused to evacuate, and I had somehow broken both arms and couldn't manhandle him into the car. Then I'd stay, because that's my father. But that is the only way.

They knew.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kallend 2,175]

Quote

Quote

...Okay, I said it before and I'll say it again. Most of those people didn't have the money to get out. Most of the people did not CHOOSE TO STAY..

Let's see now....I have no money...No money for food before the flood? No money for rent before the flood? no money at all?

Hmmmm...I must not have a pot to piss in BUT I do have some common sense...

I could have:
Hitchhiked.
Bummed a ride on an empty semi.
Hopped a freight train.
Walked.
Hijacked a car.
Committed a petty crime to get into jail and let the gov't be responsible.
..you want some other ideas?

The staying was the choice made...in this case not a good one.

Good options if it only involves one or two. Chaos and riot if 100,000 try it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,175]

Quote

If a cat 5 storm is headed your way (and I hope it never does), will you wait around for it or leave?

.

I will leave, because I have both an airplane and a car at my disposal and I can outrun most weather. That's an advantage of not being dirt poor. If I were so poor that my only option was to walk in out the open in a CAT5 I might decide it's safer to go to a shelter instead.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

If a cat 5 storm is headed your way (and I hope it never does), will you wait around for it or leave?

.

I will leave, because I have both an airplane and a car at my disposal and I can outrun most weather. That's an advantage of not being dirt poor. If I were so poor that my only option was to walk in out the open in a CAT5 I might decide it's safer to go to a shelter instead.

You're missing my point. By leaving you'll have made a decision. Being not-dirt-poor has little to do with it other than you probably got that way by making many good decisions in the course of your life.

And later by deciding on a shelter, that's is also thinking for yourself. These people didn't do either one. They don't know how to think. Being poor is a by-product and consequence of not knowing how to think even when your life and your familys life is on the line. YOU do know how to think. A couple easy early decisions, or an easily decipherable decision-tree if fleeing isn't an option.

These people did not know how to make those decisions. Why? Because they've never had to in the past.

Why have they never had to in the past? Because there's never been consequences to making (bad) decisions. Why is that? Many reasons, all leftist. Because kids aren't disciplined. Because it's always someone else's fault, never their own. Because they need more money for schools. Becasue they just somehow happened to end up in jail. And funny if they are so poor, a lot are eating very very well.

(edited to add last paragraph.)

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[kallend 2,175]

What a condescending load of garbage. You have NO IDEA what caused any of these people to act the way they did.

If one or two people leave a city, no problem. If 500,000 all try to leave at once, there WILL be chaos and mayhem unless someone organizes the evacuation.

Has it ever occurred to you that even the best orchestras have a conductor, and the best armies have officers to coordinate things, and they practice. You expect a city full of people to evacuate without chaos, with NO organization and no rehearsal.

And when that city, along with its power, transportation and communications infrastructure is destroyed the ONLY place the coordination can come from is external to the city.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,175]

Quote

Quote

Absolutely incorrect. It was forseen.

The above is absolutely incorrect. It was not forseen. That this would occur was not absolute. There was a probablility of its occurrence, nothing more.

FallRate

Not forseen, eh? Take a look at this and this.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nate_1979 9]

Once again, water toping levees forseen, flooding forseen, broken levees *NOT* forseen.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Chaos and riot if 100,000 try it.

As opposed to the chaos that resulted in NOT trying it.

As for other folks here suggesting that some people did not know what was going on or the the danger that they were in... Hello... everyone else if running for the hills...wonder why that is

Or maybe, just maybe this is Darwin in action

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[slug 1]

Quote

Once again, water toping levees forseen, flooding forseen, broken levees *NOT* forseen.

Hi Nate

You a submarine dude what do you know about what happens to levee's when they've been overtopped.?

Dams have spillways just below the top of the dam so if their in danger of being ovetopped the water is automatically released from this low spot to protect the dam from catistrophic failure.

From what we saw on the news one of the newer levee's had a structural failure, and another one was undercut by the storm surge.

BTW I don't know squat about submarines and know it

R.I.P.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...Good options if it only involves one or two. Chaos and riot if 100,000 try it.

Probably so....evacuating any large city would obviously be chaotic...your point is?

<<>>
Gee, 100,000 people trying to get out all at once....that's going to be chaotic...Hmmmm, I think I'll avoid the chaos and just stay.
<<>>



<<>>
The gov't owes me transportation out. I'll just sit and wait for the gov't to do it for me.
<<>>

also

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...If I were so poor that my only option was to walk in out the open in a CAT5 I might decide it's safer to go to a shelter instead.

Yep, if you were not-so-bright as to wait until the crap hit, a shelter may be a good option for you. Then when you get there, you can complain about the gov't not getting you out.

Not buying it....personal responsibility has gone to pot in the "not my fault, it's yours" generation.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kallend 2,175]

Quote

Quote

...If I were so poor that my only option was to walk in out the open in a CAT5 I might decide it's safer to go to a shelter instead.

Yep, if you were not-so-bright as to wait until the crap hit, a shelter may be a good option for you. Then when you get there, you can complain about the gov't not getting you out.

Not buying it....personal responsibility has gone to pot in the "not my fault, it's yours" generation.

I take it that you do not pay Federal taxes to pay for DHS and FEMA. Please will you tell me how you got the exemption.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I pay federal taxes, but that does not give me the right to sit around on idle hands and perfectly capable legs to wait for someone to 'rescue me'..

personal responsibility HAS gone out the window, I pay taxes for roads, schools and other crap.. I don't remember contributing to a "RESCUE FUND"

and left with the options
1. Wait for the government to rescue me & possibly lose my life & my families
2. Load up the stroller, wagon, or backpack and start walking

I choose 2.

They couldn't evacuate 100K people without chaos? Then what is the evacuation plan for???

I think an intersting tidbit would be to know how many of those left in the city are on welfare. My GUESS is more than 75% of them.. in which case their mentality is let the government take care of me.. so I'm not surprised that they didn't help themselves MORE.

I still can't STAND seeing perfectly capable people standing around, sitting around, men, women & children surrounded by debris & trash and not picking it up! My god! It's THEIR CITY.. they obviously don't have a sense of community, or responsiblity.. it's a darn shame.

added: and if that is the case, why should we care more than they do? All I'm seeing on TV from the ugly people complaining is a sense of entitlement..

again, I'm not mad about the truly disabled or unable.. just the perfectly capable.. who could be HELPING now and STILL arent!!!

[nate_1979 9]

Quote

Quote

Once again, water toping levees forseen, flooding forseen, broken levees *NOT* forseen.

Hi Nate

You a submarine dude what do you know about what happens to levee's when they've been overtopped.?

Dams have spillways just below the top of the dam so if their in danger of being ovetopped the water is automatically released from this low spot to protect the dam from catistrophic failure.

From what we saw on the news one of the newer levee's had a structural failure, and another one was undercut by the storm surge.

BTW I don't know squat about submarines and know it

R.I.P.

And I'm just going off the reports, which say that the practice run they had they showed levees topped off, overflowing, city flooded... In this case, the city can just pump the water out. You cant just pump the water out if the levee breaks, so this does in fact make a different senerio now doesnt it? I fail to see how my submarine job makes me not understand what a levee does, or how a breach in said levee causes what we see today.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

Quote

Most of the people did not CHOOSE TO STAY.

How do you know this? I'm not saying that they did or didn't. Just wondering how you came to that assumption.

By watching the news.

1010 said:

Quote

These people did not know how to make those decisions. Why? Because they've never had to in the past.

Quote

Why have they never had to in the past? Because there's never been consequences to making (bad) decisions. Why is that? Many reasons, all leftist. Because kids aren't disciplined. Because it's always someone else's fault, never their own. Because they need more money for schools. Becasue they just somehow happened to end up in jail. And funny if they are so poor, a lot are eating very very well.

Wow! And you know this information because you have been in that situation with living paycheck to paycheck.

I am shocked to read some of the comments here. These people now have nothing. They are human beings and fellow Americans. My heart goes out to them.

I hope and pray that any of you that are saying they should have gotten out, they should have saved money to figure it out, etc...... That you are never in a situation like so many of our fellow Americans are in.

I'm out of here, this thread makes me see the ugly side of humans. I'd rather place my energy into helping, rather then place blame.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[kallend 2,175]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Most of the people did not CHOOSE TO STAY.

How do you know this? I'm not saying that they did or didn't. Just wondering how you came to that assumption.

By watching the news.

1010 said:

Quote

These people did not know how to make those decisions. Why? Because they've never had to in the past.

Quote

Why have they never had to in the past? Because there's never been consequences to making (bad) decisions. Why is that? Many reasons, all leftist. Because kids aren't disciplined. Because it's always someone else's fault, never their own. Because they need more money for schools. Becasue they just somehow happened to end up in jail. And funny if they are so poor, a lot are eating very very well.

Wow! And you know this information because you have been in that situation with living paycheck to paycheck.

I am shocked to read some of the comments here. These people now have nothing. They are human beings and fellow Americans. My heart goes out to them.

I hope and pray that any of you that are saying they should have gotten out, they should have saved money to figure it out, etc...... That you are never in a situation like so many of our fellow Americans are in.

I'm out of here, this thread makes me see the ugly side of humans. I'd rather place my energy into helping, rather then place blame.

Hey Mary, if they are hungry they can always eat cake.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

I've been poor.. really poor.. funny that when I was, I lived in the SAME place as this tragedy.. Jefferson Parish was the worst memories ever.

I survived the 94 Northridge earthquake by living ON the epicenter.. there was no help for DAYS.. we cleaned up, helped eachother, fed eachother. I don't understand why people arent DOING anything.. we had no food, no water, no help for over a week.. the FEMA assistance was a joke, but we all made it depending on eachother... and our earthquake & survival kits. We didn't have power for more than a week, we had NOTHING but debris, bodies & injured..and those damn gas valves beeping (hearing those on the TV brought back memories)

I see people sitting around complaining in the streets.. I see no one picking up debris, cleaning up their neighborhood.. I see lotsa people waiting for someone else to take care of them..

this to me is a bigger problem.. people unwilling to help themselves... if the masses of people who COULD'VE helped themselves DID,,there would be enough assistance for those who were TRULY disabled and unable.

a 6 hour slow walk would've put them outta harms way.. they should've started sooner

and pops.. I wanted to add:
BICYCLE... they could've gotten outta harms way on a slow bike trek and even carried goods with them.

I like this attitude. We take care of ourselves regardless of finances/social status.

Resources may be harder to come by, I will absolutely concede that...but take ownership and do something. I like that.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

but take ownership and do something. I like that.

I agree, it seems some people cant handle taking accountabilty for themselves, nor ownership of there problems.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Tink1717 2]

Quote

NOBODY saw the flood of NO coming, they figured some waves might crash into the city, put a little bit of water in it, something they could pump out without much problem... NEVER saw what we have here, don't claim that we should have seen this.

Yes they DID see the flood coming. I took meteorology classes in '92 & '93. They were discussing THIS STORM back then. They were showing how a strom surge would overwhelm the levee system and cause failure of those levees. They were discussing how lake Ponchatrain would flood the city until it reached the same level of the lake. They were showing how if the the levee system failed on the Mississippi side, the flooding would be even worse. FEMA knew this strom would happen, knew how bad it would be, knew what assets would be needed to remedy the event and knew a rough idea of how many would be killed. The stupid part is why they waited until AFTER the storm hit and had passed to start assembling those assets. There is simply no logical explanation for that.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717