Katrina - Shit pissing me off

[jdhill 0]

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Also the levees are the responsibility of the Federal government (Army Corps of Engineers, G.W. Bush, Commander in Chief)), not the city.

Must throw the bullshit flag here... the levees have been a problem for 30 years... we have had a few presidents over that time... also, the state and city governments were aware of the problem and should have had a contingency plan for it. There have been plety of screw ups in this, but to point the finger soley at the federal governement is narrow minded.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[shropshire 0]

It may be just me, but has anyone else noticed that SOME of the most out spoken pro-religion peeps from other threads, have tended to spout the most unsympathetic claptrap on the NO threads....

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

Your original post: Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except for #1...after re-reading, it appears that you are saying the Fed gov't (specifically Pres. Bush) is responsible for the problems of the aftermath....

Am I reading this correctly?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...Okay, I said it before and I'll say it again. Most of those people didn't have the money to get out. Most of the people did not CHOOSE TO STAY..

Let's see now....I have no money...No money for food before the flood? No money for rent before the flood? no money at all?

Hmmmm...I must not have a pot to piss in BUT I do have some common sense...

I could have:
Hitchhiked.
Bummed a ride on an empty semi.
Hopped a freight train.
Walked.
Hijacked a car.
Committed a petty crime to get into jail and let the gov't be responsible.
..you want some other ideas?

The staying was the choice made...in this case not a good one.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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You know what would be entertaining...taking all those that said they COULDNT get out and hook em to a lie detector and ask again....

Now thats entertainment.

Really, who is gonna say "I was an idiot I chose this I was wrong please help I will take whatever I can get cause I cant do anything on my own"

wagers anyone?

None here!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Absolutely incorrect. It was forseen.

The above is absolutely incorrect. It was not forseen. That this would occur was not absolute. There was a probablility of its occurrence, nothing more.

FallRate

Lame arguement...nothing about it is absolute. The probability was high. Cat5? Pretty high probability I would think.

Let's see now....bad-ass Cat 5 coming, I'm below sea level, levees often break, last hurricane didn't screw us too badly, I've got a few days to think about it, I think I'll stay....

"Better safe than sorry" comes to mind here...

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...Correct. It was predicted. It was not destined or fated. Therefore it was not forseen....

Since destiny and fate could be forseen, can you tell me what my destiny/fate will be?


I understand what you are saying but I'm a little more broad in my definition of "forseen" and derivatives thereof.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kallend 2,175]

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>Also the levees are the responsibility of the Federal government (Army Corps of Engineers, G.W. Bush, Commander in Chief), not the city.

Well Kallend, there have been several admin. prior to the current one that could have upgraded the levees as well. I wonder how much effort was made and money spent prior to the Bush Admin. Obviously this was a protential problem that could have occured prior to Bush being in office.

Also there is congress and the senate, that control the purse strings, any blame lie there? The Mayor of N.O. and the Gov. of LA, do they not have some responsiblity for the upkeep of their state and cities.

The levees are not the responsibility of the city. Period. They are a federal responsibility. The author of the original rant was blaming the city.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I've been poor.. really poor.. funny that when I was, I lived in the SAME place as this tragedy.. Jefferson Parish was the worst memories ever.

I survived the 94 Northridge earthquake by living ON the epicenter.. there was no help for DAYS.. we cleaned up, helped eachother, fed eachother. I don't understand why people arent DOING anything.. we had no food, no water, no help for over a week.. the FEMA assistance was a joke, but we all made it depending on eachother... and our earthquake & survival kits. We didn't have power for more than a week, we had NOTHING but debris, bodies & injured..and those damn gas valves beeping (hearing those on the TV brought back memories)

I see people sitting around complaining in the streets.. I see no one picking up debris, cleaning up their neighborhood.. I see lotsa people waiting for someone else to take care of them..

this to me is a bigger problem.. people unwilling to help themselves... if the masses of people who COULD'VE helped themselves DID,,there would be enough assistance for those who were TRULY disabled and unable.

a 6 hour slow walk would've put them outta harms way.. they should've started sooner

and pops.. I wanted to add:
BICYCLE... they could've gotten outta harms way on a slow bike trek and even carried goods with them.

[Gawain 0]

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QED.

I would just like to hop on a tangent for a minute and say that this is one of my favorite sayings, even though I hardly ever say it.

It just sounds good. QED... Quod erat demonstrandum

It won't likely get Kallend and I to agree on anything, anytime, ever, but you know...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Guest]

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...

I see people sitting around complaining in the streets.. I see no one picking up debris, cleaning up their neighborhood.. I see lotsa people waiting for someone else to take care of them..

this to me is a bigger problem.. people unwilling to help themselves... if the masses of people who COULD'VE helped themselves DID,,there would be enough assistance for those who were TRULY disabled and unable.

a 6 hour slow walk would've put them outta harms way.. they should've started sooner

and pops.. I wanted to add:
BICYCLE... they could've gotten outta harms way on a slow bike trek and even carried goods with them.

Your post nails it. These people will still be poor even if given new $300k houses in the burbs because they can't/won't/don't take care of themselves. The discussion about why they can't take care of themselves the Left doesn't like to hear.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[jgh404 0]

Ok this is the deal I live in Atlanta, GA now. I lived through Hurricane Charley I was 15 miles from where it came on shore, the bottom line is Florida is more prepared for hurricane type activity than New Orleans. New Orleans residents had no idea the actual severity of this storm, all they were told is to take over, for god sakes they told us to take cover in Florida everytime a damn hurricane came through, most people probably thought it would be bad but not bad enough to leave..just like every hurricane in Florida, I think Bush needs to step his game up, he needs to put more effort into saving the residents of New Orleans from this terrible tragedy and stop worrying about changing ancient religions in other countrys. Yes New Oreleans for the most part is poor low income people, but they were doing just fine before this natural disaster occured..I think this hurricane is a wake up effort from the Lord above to let us know we need to pay more attention to what's going on over here and stop worrying so much about everyone else.

[nate_1979 9]

"No idea of the severity of the storm"

PLEASE, PLEASE, dont go there.

People knew WTF was coming at them. It was not some secret, MANDATORY evacuation, this is not something that happens for every hurricane. I think it was pretty clear that they knew this hurricane was going to cause major damage and loss of life, nobody should have been taken by total surprise when the storm turned out to be big.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[jgh404 0]

ok well number 1, you're a dumb racist bigot, i myself am white and from a very poor neighborhood, not because we "didn't do anything" but because we felt like that was all we had, you come from some bs suburbian background where everyone gets what they want when they want it, doesnt work for, but acts like they do, there was no proper preperation for the residents of New Orleans, what was Magnolia projects supposed to do man? jump on the private jet and sky dive into malibu? your view is 1 sided you need to expand your mind and realize not everyone is from where you are from and represents what you do, we're all god's people and guess what money don't mean a thing in the end, holla

[nate_1979 9]

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Your original post: Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except for #1...after re-reading, it appears that you are saying the Fed gov't (specifically Pres. Bush) is responsible for the problems of the aftermath....

Am I reading this correctly?

No, I do not feel that Pres. Bush is to blame for the response. Basicly what I feel is that the City should of had some better plans in place for evacuation, seems to me they just started making crap up as the storm started making it's way towards them. I think that the response of FEMA was crap, but then again they said before the storm that they may not be able to respond immediately, also as been stated here, people should have gotten off their fat lazy asses and gotten the hell out. Period. I dont have alot of sympathy for alot of these people who simply didnt try. For those that did, and could not get out, that's horrible, and that's where I feel the city and state levels failed, NOT the fed gov't. Had the city / state asked for assistance with an evacuation (which they didnt even think of I'm sure) then the fed gov't would have been a POS for not helping, .. but no request made. (until after the shit hit the fan)

Now another thing I see on TV is people complaining that medical is not available near the superdome.. Once again, I think one thing said prior was that nobody will be there to help until conditions are safe... Who here thinks conditions are safe? We have cops getting shot at, helocopters getting shot at, medical personel were being attacked... I'm sure many docters would have been more than willing to help, that is until the people of the city started becoming "thugs" and are making it dangurous for people to help them! As others have posted, nobody here is doing anything to improve their own situations, they are all just sitting around waiting for someone else to help them... How lame.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[nate_1979 9]

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ok well number 1, you're a dumb racist bigot, i myself am white and from a very poor neighborhood, not because we "didn't do anything" but because we felt like that was all we had, you come from some bs suburbian background where everyone gets what they want when they want it, doesnt work for, but acts like they do, there was no proper preperation for the residents of New Orleans, what was Magnolia projects supposed to do man? jump on the private jet and sky dive into malibu? your view is 1 sided you need to expand your mind and realize not everyone is from where you are from and represents what you do, we're all god's people and guess what money don't mean a thing in the end, holla

LOL... whatever, .. I have stated that the Gov't failed you guys by not having plans to get everyone out.. But *NOT* the fed gov't. I understand not everyone had a way out, and yes this is something that had to be brought to my attention as, your right, I didnt really think about that at first and I'm sorry for that. You got me, for a short time I was not thinking of "everyone" those without the means to leave.... *BUT* I still do not have much sympothy for those who just didnt bother to try and get out, lazyness does not earn any respect or sympothy from me. If that makes me "racest" or whatever, tough shit.

As someone else said, I'm sure many more people *COULD* have gotten out, if they would have just thought about it and given it a little bit of effort.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[jgh404 0]

bro learn to spell

[nate_1979 9]

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bro learn to spell

Sorry, just responding to crap, not taking the time to spell check.. My bad.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[kallend 2,175]

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ok well number 1, you're a dumb racist bigot, i myself am white and from a very poor neighborhood, not because we "didn't do anything" but because we felt like that was all we had, you come from some bs suburbian background where everyone gets what they want when they want it, doesnt work for, but acts like they do, there was no proper preperation for the residents of New Orleans, what was Magnolia projects supposed to do man? jump on the private jet and sky dive into malibu? your view is 1 sided you need to expand your mind and realize not everyone is from where you are from and represents what you do, we're all god's people and guess what money don't mean a thing in the end, holla

LOL... whatever, .. I have stated that the Gov't failed you guys by not having plans to get everyone out.. But *NOT* the fed gov't. I understand not everyone had a way out, and yes this is something that had to be brought to my attention as, your right, I didnt really think about that at first and I'm sorry for that. You got me, for a short time I was not thinking of "everyone" those without the means to leave.... *BUT* I still do not have much sympothy for those who just didnt bother to try and get out, lazyness does not earn any respect or sympothy from me. If that makes me "racest" or whatever, tough shit.

As someone else said, I'm sure many more people *COULD* have gotten out, if they would have just thought about it and given it a little bit of effort.

Katrina was a multi-state event. That automatically makes it a Federal issue.

The Feds are the folks with the big budgets for "emergency management" and "homeland security".

The Feds are responsible for the levees.

How can you possibly exclude the Feds from blame here?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nate_1979 9]

This isnt like crime, where if something crosses state lines it becomes Federal.. Sorry, not buying it.

YES, The Federal Gov't needs to provide aid.

NO, The Federal Gov't is *NOT* responsible for "pre-emergency" planning such as City Evacuation Plans. Nothing says that a city evacuation plan cant ask for federal assistance if needed, but that is why we have a multi-level gov't. The CITY is supposed to handle things first, what they cant handle should goto the state, then to the Feds.. I have heard nothing of a request for the Federal Gov't to help evacuate NO (prior to the incident), have you?

The federal gov't has been a little slow at responding after the incident, but this does not mean that they are to blame for the entire situation.

And yes, they should have done more with the levees, they should have done that MANY MANY years ago, they should have built them origionally to withstand a larger hurricane... Yup. The CITY should have had a plan for what to do if a storm that can threaten the city is approching.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[kallend 2,175]

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This isnt like crime, where if something crosses state lines it becomes Federal.. Sorry, not buying it.

YES, The Federal Gov't needs to provide aid.

NO, The Federal Gov't is *NOT* responsible for "pre-emergency" planning such as City Evacuation Plans. Nothing says that a city evacuation plan cant ask for federal assistance if needed, but that is why we have a multi-level gov't. .

Department of Homeland Security isn't only responsible for preventing old guys from hijacking airliners with their Medals of Honor, you know. Evacuation plans are part of their bailiwick.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

This post is not directed towards anyone in particular...

But it seems like the difference in opinion is basically are we responsible for ourselves and our actions, or is someone(or thing) responsible for us.

FJC Rule one..YOU are the person responsible for saving your life (we got quizzed on this repeatedly).

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[Guest]

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Evacuation plans are part of their bailiwick.

Actually you are exceedingly wrong here doc.

Local evacuation plans, such as they are, are the responsibility of local states and municipalities. Do you really want an evac plan for NO written by people in VA who have never been there?

Your state has an "Emergency Management Department" by some name that has been receiving millions of federal grant dollars for years to plan for such things. If they haven't done their job that's, somehow, not President Bush's fault.

The welfare state caused this to become a crisis. Now, acorss the nation, emergency plans must be revised to provide public transportation out of the city. Bluushit. How many buses will need to be standing by parked, for the next 100 years, just to take the helpless people out of town when there is a storm. Thanks for helping create this state. Why don't YOU step up and take responsibility for the crap the left has created.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[kallend 2,175]

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Evacuation plans are part of their bailiwick.

Actually you are exceedingly wrong here doc.

Local evacuation plans, such as they are, are the responsibility of local states and municipalities. Do you really want an evac plan for NO written by people in VA who have never been there?

.

Nice rant. But where did I say DHS had exclusive responsibility?

Go look at the DHS mission (on its web site) and you will see how responding to disasters and emergencies is part of its charge. Just as I said.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nate_1979 9]

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This post is not directed towards anyone in particular...

But it seems like the difference in opinion is basically are we responsible for ourselves and our actions, or is someone(or thing) responsible for us.

FJC Rule one..YOU are the person responsible for saving your life (we got quizzed on this repeatedly).

I agree that people need to take some responsibility to take care of themselves.. I think the city needs to take some responsibility to help those people in said city that legitimately can not help themselves. And I dont feel it's the federal gov't's job to do such. People complain that the fed gov't does too much on a local level, now they dont do enough.. WTF. This is one case that the local gov't needs to suck up some responsibility (and ultimately the local residents) ..

Tell you one more thing not helping, seeing the leadership of that city freak out on TV (mayor, chief of police, etc) ... City leaders should be able to control themselves, it does not help a situation when people see their own leaders freak out.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.