Bush should be blamed

[kallend 2,140]

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You'd rather I parrot Ann Coulter like the righties around here?

I'd rather see a thoughtful, intelligent and perhaps unique contribution from someone with your credentials.

We need not agree, but trading platitudes is a tiresome endeavor.

FallRate

Unique contribution. I don't have to make anything up. Bush's record is what it is. Poverty up, deficit at record levels, war turned into a quagmire, "bad intel" fiasco, given up on social security reform, etc, etc.

I'm just surprised that you "conservatives" still think he's one of you.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TheAnvil 0]

none of the data I requested - I take it you don't have any such data and therefore have absolutely no factual basis to back up your previous claims. Nice of the businessweek article to state 'strong economic growth' - you were talking of a ruined economy?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Mike111 0]

I wouldn't complian about Bush. I do know the facts and figures for myself nad i accept them.

I might have low standards in your oppinion but Bush is a perfectly adequate president in my eyes.

he doesn't think straight - right so lets evaulate that shall we?

OK - first of all lets state arguments against my position.

58% say War in Iraq wasn't worth fighting - i agree on that one now as i stated before

30% think he has done abetter job in his second compared to 50% at the election.

45% see Iraq as another Vietnam.

55 % say he has done more to divide the country.

54 % of congress disapprove of his ratings

These were taken from ABC news poll on Bush, June 7

they also commented it all equates to around 50 50 support for and against Bush.

There aren't many figures to support Bush agreed.

But why do i support him - i do agree with his policies, although many don't . I support him as a president.

So you saying i don't know the facts - right in front of you.

But i accept them.

Clinton - had an 8 year year presidency with no historic events. 1996 - when the ship was bombed (forget the name) he did nothing .

Bush did in Afghanistan.

I might disagree with Bush over Iraq slightly now but not enough to disagree with him as leader.

So i do have the facts.

[nate_1979 9]

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1996 - when the ship was bombed (forget the name)

USS Cole

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[popsjumper 2]

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...This current crisis with the aftermath of Katrina is just one example of how little they have done to prepare this nation at any level to handle a catastrophe.

The government had dropped the ball terribly on this one and should be held accountable much like the CEO's of failed corporations. Heads should roll and no one at the top should be allowed to pat their own back.

Let's see now...I build/buy a house in a flood plain and the Fed Gov't is responsible for my plight....Hmmmm...say what?

As far as the looting....food and water - go for it, merchandise - Bang! You're dead.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kallend 2,140]

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none of the data I requested - I take it you don't have any such data and therefore have absolutely no factual basis to back up your previous claims. Nice of the businessweek article to state 'strong economic growth' - you were talking of a ruined economy?

The data you want, showing everything is hunky-dory and wonderful, don't exist, you jackass.

We have an appearance of prosperity, just like a credit-card junkie has an appearance of prosperity. Reality is that our apparent prosperity (except for the increasing number in poverty) is based on massive and ever increasing DEBT.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Im a little confused on how this is completley Bush's fault. He urged for a complete mandatory evacuation. The local govt passed the announcement on, yet when I watch tv, I see school buses flooded, city transit buses flooded, trains flooded and people dying on the streets. If the local govt cared so much about its "poorer people" then how come the vehicles werent utilized prior to Katrinas impact? I know that wouldnt be the complete answer, and there are still other issues with how this has been taken care of. I just want to know how they can justify not transporting as many people out that could NOT afford to leave on their own accord when there were all those vehicles available.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Mockingbird 0]

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I just want to know how they can justify not transporting as many people out that could NOT afford to leave on their own accord when there were all those vehicles available.

Exactly. After the mandatory evacuation, they should've filled every school and city transit bus and gotten the hell out of dodge.

Did you see where that young man took (well, borrowed) a school bus (I think they said the keys were inside, so he just started it up) in new Orleans and loaded it up with people and drove it to Houston? He'd never driven a bus before. (If anyone has better info on this, feel free to set the record straight. I came in late on that report, but I think I got the gist of it.) Individual responsibility and initiative. Don't wait for the state to save your butt; save it yourself.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[kallend 2,140]

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I just want to know how they can justify not transporting as many people out that could NOT afford to leave on their own accord when there were all those vehicles available.

Exactly. After the mandatory evacuation, they should've filled every school and city transit bus and gotten the hell out of dodge.

Did you see where that young man took (well, borrowed) a school bus (I think they said the keys were inside, so he just started it up) in new Orleans and loaded it up with people and drove it to Houston? He'd never driven a bus before. (If anyone has better info on this, feel free to set the record straight. I came in late on that report, but I think I got the gist of it.) Individual responsibility and initiative. Don't wait for the state to save your butt; save it yourself.

I expect you are too young to remember, but we saw in Cincinnati with The Who concert disaster, in Glasgow at the soccer disaster, and just last year in Chicago in the night club disaster, even a few hundred people independently trying to save themselves rapidly turns to chaos, anarchy and riot. Organization is the ONLY way to deal with 100,000+ people. Organization was sorely missing in NOLA, and the city itself can't be blamed since it's infrastructure and emergency services were wiped out. The organization had to come from outside.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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Organization was sorely missing in NOLA, and the city itself can't be blamed since it's infrastructure and emergency services were wiped out. The organization had to come from outside.

I do agree on this statement in a way, however lets not forget this was not a tornado, or earth quake and remember that this was a HURRICANE, that had already stuck Florida a few days prior, and was forecasted for days that it would hit where it did, and that it would be bad. There was plenty of time to get out of dodge. There should have been a plan for this type of event PRIOR to Katrinas land fall.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Guest]

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the city itself can't be blamed since it's infrastructure and emergency services were wiped out.

No, for heavens sake, people shouldn't take care of themselves, so then nor should a city. Why then should the feds be able to do it? They're just a country. What we REALLY need is the UN to take care of us.

People being responsible for themselves is just tooooo much for you to imagine, isn't it? God forbid there are consequences to not being responsible for one's self. And this time when there consequences are you blame the president. Nice.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[kallend 2,140]

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the city itself can't be blamed since it's infrastructure and emergency services were wiped out.

No, for heavens sake, people shouldn't take care of themselves, so then nor should a city. Why then should the feds be able to do it? They're just a country. What we REALLY need is the UN to take care of us.

People being responsible for themselves is just tooooo much for you to imagine, isn't it? God forbid there are consequences to not being responsible for one's self. And this time when there consequences are you blame the president. Nice.

Go back and read again and again until you actually understand about the panic, chaos and death that ensue in situations where large groups of people go about saving themselves without any organization.

Unfortunately in this case people were initially expecting organization, but got none. Then we got the chaos and death.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nate_1979 9]

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the city itself can't be blamed since it's infrastructure and emergency services were wiped out.

No, for heavens sake, people shouldn't take care of themselves, so then nor should a city. Why then should the feds be able to do it? They're just a country. What we REALLY need is the UN to take care of us.

People being responsible for themselves is just tooooo much for you to imagine, isn't it? God forbid there are consequences to not being responsible for one's self. And this time when there consequences are you blame the president. Nice.

We wanna be lazy... Simple matter of "survival of the fittest" I think, ... If your too lazy to leave, your left behind, you die. I think alot more people could have left, and just didnt even try. Anyone who tried and could not, well that just shows the breakdown caused by a lack of local evacuation plans.

I feel horible for just writing that, but....

Edited to add: It's very unfortionate that people died.. I feel bad for that, I feel bad for the families and friends that have lost loved ones. Very bad situation, very sad. Nobody deserves to die this way.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Mockingbird 0]

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I expect you are too young to remember, but we saw in Cincinnati with The Who concert disaster, in Glasgow at the soccer disaster, and just last year in Chicago in the night club disaster, even a few hundred people independently trying to save themselves rapidly turns to chaos, anarchy and riot. Organization is the ONLY way to deal with 100,000+ people. Organization was sorely missing in NOLA, and the city itself can't be blamed since it's infrastructure and emergency services were wiped out. The organization had to come from outside.

Not exclusively however. It depends on the situation, the opportunity, and it's chance of success, Kallend. This young man LOOKED for a way to help, saw the opportunity to get people to safety, and "went out on one of the skinny branches," and was successful. I say, Way to go, Kiddo. I love well thought out initiative from regular people. The minors on the bus will remember that guy and hopefully emulate his initiative and leadership in times to come.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Guest]

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Unfortunately in this case people were initially expecting organization,

Why should they expect that? WHY? Why don't they just take care of themselves??? Because they have been trained to be taken care of by the govt (or the some magic "other"), just not how to think and take care of themselves.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Guest]

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We wanna be lazy... Simple matter of "survival of the fittest" I think, ... If your too lazy to leave, your left behind, you die. I think alot more people could have left, and just didnt even try. Anyone who tried and could not, well that just shows the breakdown caused by a lack of local evacuation plans.

I feel horible for just writing that, but....

Edited to add: It's very unfortionate that people died.. I feel bad for that, I feel bad for the families and friends that have lost loved ones. Very bad situation, very sad. Nobody deserves to die this way.

You have no reason to feel horrible for writing what you observe. I too feel horrible for the people there. I also feel horrible for them because - for many the helplessness they feel now isn't so different than what they were experiencing before the storm. Last week, last month, last year. Its the nature of the welfare state and how it has destroyed and fragmented a once proud and handsome culture.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Mockingbird 0]

By all means, let's be enablers---- make as many people dependent on the almighty government as possible. Don't expect people to take care of themselves, and they won't.

This enabling-attitude is so typical of socialist libs.

The energy to organize aid ought to be saved for those who really need it: the elderly and sick.

[HydroGuy 0]

We live in a Republic. Which gives the states power. As it SHOULD be. The City of New Orleans and the State of LA had the first responsibility, with the feds to back them up.

The feds backed them up immediately (Costa Guard was working round the clock immediately) and in a more massive scale after 2 or 3 days. Those first hours and days were New Orleans and the state responsibility. It was the city and states job to force evacuations...as it should be. I don't want the feds telling me what to do.

35% of LA's National Guard is in Iraq? So what? Where were the other 65% in the days following Katrina?

And Clinton is responsible for most of what Bush is doing today in the world. Clinton is a fucking Communist who sold the United States out to China!!! He gave them missle secrets, the Panama Canal, and allowed their influence to increase globally. Clinton allowed Osama to attack the WTC in 93, the USS Cole, African embassies, US Barracks in Saudi Arabia with no real response or care. Clinton allowed Pakistan to export Nuclear Weapon technology to North Korea, Syria, Libya and Iran.

Bush is merely trying to bring us security in the years ahead...by assuring US influence in Asia and the Middle East as opposed to Communist China or Islamic fundamentalists controlling these vital regions.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[slug 1]

General comment to a Greenie

Time to LOCK IT!

R.I.P.

[kallend 2,140]

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Unfortunately in this case people were initially expecting organization,

Why should they expect that? WHY? Why don't they just take care of themselves??? Because they have been trained to be taken care of by the govt (or the some magic "other"), just not how to think and take care of themselves.

They would expect it because the state and Feds use our tax dollars to pay FEMA and DHS to provide exactly that organization. I pay a LOT of federal tax, and I expect those well funded government departments to come through when they are supposed to.

If FEMA and DHS can't do the job we pay them for, they should be eliminated and their multi-BILLION dollar budgets along with them.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,140]

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By all means, let's be enablers---- make as many people dependent on the almighty government as possible. Don't expect people to take care of themselves, and they won't.

This enabling-attitude is so typical of socialist libs.

The energy to organize aid ought to be saved for those who really need it: the elderly and sick.

Apparently you do not understand the magnitude of the many-body problem. No further point in discussing it withg you.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,140]

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We live in a Republic. Which gives the states power. As it SHOULD be. The City of New Orleans and the State of LA had the first responsibility, with the feds to back them up.

The feds backed them up immediately (Costa Guard was working round the clock immediately) and in a more massive scale after 2 or 3 days. Those first hours and days were New Orleans and the state responsibility. It was the city and states job to force evacuations...as it should be. I don't want the feds telling me what to do.

35% of LA's National Guard is in Iraq? So what? Where were the other 65% in the days following Katrina?

And Clinton is responsible for most of what Bush is doing today in the world. Clinton is a fucking Communist who sold the United States out to China!!! He gave them missle secrets, the Panama Canal, and allowed their influence to increase globally. Clinton allowed Osama to attack the WTC in 93, the USS Cole, African embassies, US Barracks in Saudi Arabia with no real response or care. Clinton allowed Pakistan to export Nuclear Weapon technology to North Korea, Syria, Libya and Iran.

Bush is merely trying to bring us security in the years ahead...by assuring US influence in Asia and the Middle East as opposed to Communist China or Islamic fundamentalists controlling these vital regions.

Why not blame Canada? Makes just as much sense.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Mockingbird 0]

I wonder how many people who said "We have no way out" could've been evacuated if the mayor or governor had sent these up and down NO's streets last Sat. or Sun.

There were many ways in which people could've saved themselves from the degree of catastrophe they are suffering now.

(See attached pic.)

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[lisamariewillbe 1]

that was my point to, thanks Mocking for finding the picture, and to think thats only one bus yard

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[nate_1979 9]

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I wonder how many people who said "We have no way out" could've been evacuated if the mayor or governor had sent these up and down NO's streets last Sat. or Sun.

There were many ways in which people could've saved themselves from the degree of catastrophe they are suffering now.

(See attached pic.)

That picture shows how truely pathetic the city emergency plan really is.... manditory evacuation and so many resorces untapped...

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.