Point of Order : US Petrol prices

[shropshire 0]

Oh no not another thread about petrol prices.. Sorry but I felt that this goes across some of the others...

I know that some of us have been having a right good laugh at our American friends now that they are starting to have pay more for the fuel for the overly large motors.... but what we in the UK have to remember is that our prices are held high, not due to the Oil Companies, but due to the Tax levied by our government (to pay for health, wars, Tony's pay etc...). Where as it would appear to me that our mates are paying for greed (in the main) of the big oil companies.

Any way that just my 20p worth..

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

Sure we are paying for greed. Eventually, the individual greed of Americans will take over, resulting in buying vehicles that guzzle less fuel or by driving less, which will create a surplus of fuel, which will lower the price.

This happened before in the 80's. That "hidden hand" thingy Adam Smith wrote about...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shropshire 0]

whoops some of my word went missing... The greed I was pointing at is that of the Oil & Petrol Station companies....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jdhill 0]

Do you mean companies like Royal DUTCH Shell, and BRITISH Petroleum?

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[shropshire 0]

The problem is that the changes you'd like to see happening cann't happen overnight. There are lots of people with big cars and I bet a load of them have finance outstanding and the resale value of the biggies will plumet... there's a large cycle of loss to go around yet, I fear

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Oh no not another thread about petrol prices.. Sorry but I felt that this goes across some of the others...

I know that some of us have been having a right good laugh at our American friends now that they are starting to have pay more for the fuel for the overly large motors.... but what we in the UK have to remember is that our prices are held high, not due to the Oil Companies, but due to the Tax levied by our government (to pay for health, wars, Tony's pay etc...). Where as it would appear to me that our mates are paying for greed (in the main) of the big oil companies.

Any way that just my 20p worth..

......and huge social programs!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[shropshire 0]

So what's the best way (I'm sure I dont know) ?

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

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The problem is that the changes you'd like to see happening cann't happen overnight.

Yep. If you try to force it quickly, you cause other problems. Look at what price ceilings do. Yo've just gotta wait for the market to correct itself.

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There are lots of people with big cars and I bet a load of them have finance outstanding and the resale value of the biggies will plumet... there's a large cycle of loss to go around yet, I fear

Yep. I call it the "Tough Noogies Doctrine."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,120]

>The problem is that the changes you'd like to see happening cann't happen overnight.

Right. Which is why I hope they rise to wherever they are going to get to ($4 a gallon?) and stay there awhile, so people have time to make the change. Hard for people to plan when it roller-coasters.

[shropshire 0]

That's a good point but what can you do about the apparent profiteering ?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,120]

>but what can you do about the apparent profiteering ?

1. Cap wholesale prices. Result - instant shortages.
2. Cap retail prices. Same result, plus gas stations go out of business.
3. Cap wholesale prices with some sort of floating/adjustable limit. Works for local, but not country-wide, price increases.
3. Dissolve the futures market, which is causing the price increase. Would destroy the US stock market.

[shropshire 0]

um, so nothing to be done then? Except 'suck it up' and wait & see. Doesn't seem very..... proactive.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,151]

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>but what can you do about the apparent profiteering ?

1. Cap wholesale prices. Result - instant shortages.
2. Cap retail prices. Same result, plus gas stations go out of business.
3. Cap wholesale prices with some sort of floating/adjustable limit. Works for local, but not country-wide, price increases.
3. Dissolve the futures market, which is causing the price increase. Would destroy the US stock market.

3.15 Cut back on driving and use less gas.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,120]

>3.15 Cut back on driving and use less gas.

Well, of course. That would solve the problem completely, using nothing more than the basic rules of capitalism. It's also the answer no one wants to hear. Why go to any trouble when you can just pass a law or something?

[shropshire 0]

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3.15 Cut back on driving and use less gas.

But currently your (in particular) culture couldn't stand for that, quickly. As has been stated in other threads, people need to commute to work (for one).
.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kelpdiver 2]

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but what we in the UK have to remember is that our prices are held high, not due to the Oil Companies, but due to the Tax levied by our government (to pay for health, wars, Tony's pay etc...). Where as it would appear to me that our mates are paying for greed (in the main) of the big oil companies.

Seems more productive for that money to come back to us in the form of pork barrel spending projects. Certainly I've not see any great return in my oil stocks, for some reason beyond me.

[shropshire 0]

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pork barrel spending projects

- sorry I dont understand, please explain.

I take your point about your shares, but wouldn't it take time for the dividends to be acrued and paid out later? The price hyke has only just taken place.. too early for a public payout?

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[JohnRich 4]

The liberals should be happier than pigs in mud. They and their leaders like Al Gore have advocated artificial high fuel prices for years, in order to force conservation. Well, now they've got their wish. Dance in glee at the gas station as you pay $50 to fill your tank! Woohoo! The earth is saved!

I better not catch any of them bitching about high gasoline prices...

[billvon 3,120]

>I better not catch any of them bitching about high gasoline prices...

Why would we? My bike runs on pizza (electricity in a pinch.) Heck, my car runs on ethanol, and that's not going up in price.

A conservative is a just a liberal who hasn't yet realized there's more than one way to skin a cat. I predict a lot of formerly staunch conservatives will start looking at those tree-hugging, save-the-whales cars that get 50mpg, or run on grease or ethanol. And when they do they will declare "Hey! This makes sense." And suddenly they will decide that they aren't tree-hugging cars at all. (Of course, the cars won't change one bit - but the conservatives will.)

[kelpdiver 2]

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>I better not catch any of them bitching about high gasoline prices...

Why would we? My bike runs on pizza (electricity in a pinch.) Heck, my car runs on ethanol, and that's not going up in price.

Maybe so, but we have a shitload of SUVs in the Bay Area to use on those once every two years snow days in the hills. And I know they've been bitching forever about the tendency of gas prices here to be much higher than LA. (truer a couple years back)

[shropshire 0]

Hi John
I'm not sure if it's a Left/Right issue - it affects everyone equally.

Your current situation would seem to be one of supply and demand. The low [perceived?] availabity of petrol forces people into panic buying (we had similar long forecourt queues a couple of years ago, but without the price hyke (thankfully)), so then the pumps run out, which increases peoples panic etc... etc..

Early on, the people selling the fuel realise that they can cash in and up go the prices, also increasing the panic.

I'm sure that the situation will calm down soon enough .... but it will have planted the seeds of doubt in some peoples minds and they will now look for alternatives (smaller engines, different fuels (alcohol, Bio, electric or just plain wacky - Hydrogen) ).

We all know that oil reserves are depleating (and none know that better than the Oil Companies - they only have a limited time to rake in all of the money that they can). It's only right and proper that we collectively start examining alternatives now. Yes there are environmental issues and yes there are financial considerations etc..... The bottom line is that we're too dependant upon oil, at the moment and that has simply got to change.


regards always,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Mike111 0]

However, as we become less reliant on oil due to better technology, wouldn't less developed countries who only have technology based on oil start relying on itjust as much as we did while they are in that phase?

Therefore, would oil consumption roughly stay the same, but with just different users and differnt countries.?

thus, the oil companies would still be getting their money, just charging countries the saem amount if not more for their oil. Which would unfortunately make them even greedier and wealthier than they already are.

(p.s - when Tony bliar goes, i would be equally worried about Brown and his taxes, hes a nutter forr that kindof thing!)

[shropshire 0]

Hi Mike

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However, as we become less reliant on oil due to better technology, wouldn't less developed countries who only have technology based on oil start relying on itjust as much as we did while they are in that phase?

See I have a bit of a problem with that, it sounds way too much like some peoples answer to environmental issues ... "we'll be alright, technology will improve and the leathal smog problem will just go away .... in a cloud of smoke?)." We cannt keep pushing problems off into the future and rely on vapour-ware fictional technologies.



The time to worry (I'd suggest) is way before the introduction of new fuel technologies (after all, when they do turn up ....we could introduce them to the 1st and 3rd worlds - if the will was there)... But we're still some time off that so we should be concerned that the population of [say] China decide that they have an equal right to us to drive (shocking thought!). The demand (and thus the price) for oil would go up somewhat!!

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Mike111 0]

The time to worry (I'd suggest) is way before the introduction of new fuel technologies (after all, when they do turn up ....we could introduce them to the 1st and 3rd worlds - if the will was there)... But we're still some time off that so we should be concerned that the population of [say] China decide that they have an equal right to us to drive (shocking thought!). The demand (and thus the price) for oil would go up somewhat!!

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Agreed, although it would be interesting to see what will happen when oil reserves run out- 30 yrs? i think?

Will the demand for new technology be so great that it is cheap or affordable for every country, or will it be that only rich countries will be available to afford it?

threfore, what wll the other less rich countries be able ot do to create energy.

Thats what i fear more.

.

[shropshire 0]

Yeap and

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what wll the other less rich countries be able ot do to create energy

the really scary thing..... the UK will be one of them poor 3rd world countries by then........ Still, we wount need the energy.... we dont have much industry left

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome