Why I don't believe in Gun Control.....

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

What about the national right to carry law I keep hearing about that some are trying to push?

There is no such movement that I know of. This is a matter for each state to determine for themselves, and national legislators are not eager to preempt state's rights. As it is, something like 36 states now issue concealed carry licenses to qualified citizens.

[ViperPilot 0]

Quote

A friend was telling me that no permit of any sort was needed to legally carry concealed or in the car. I thought only Vermont or New Hampshire was that loose about it now.

That's bull. Every state requires a permit for concealed carry. You can legally conceal a weapon in your vehicle, home, or business (if you're the owner) without a permit, but to carry it around on your person, you must have a permit.

[ViperPilot 0]

There's actually been a movement for a long time to get a nationally recognized CCW permit. It's just not big and doesn't really have the support to go far, at least for now.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Every state requires a permit for concealed carry. You can legally conceal a weapon in your vehicle, home, or business (if you're the owner) without a permit, but to carry it around on your person, you must have a permit.

You have to be careful about those generalizations. There are exceptions everywhere. And those exceptions can get you thrown in jail.

In Vermont you can indeed carry concealed without a permit.
Reference

In Alabama, you cannot carry a gun in your vehicle. There may be others, but this is one I'm aware of because I drive through that state several times per year. You also couldn't do it in Texas, until yesterday, and even with a new law in effect, it's still questionable. The Houston District Attorney has said he still intends to prosecute for it.
Reference

If you are traveling interstate, you can have a gun in your vehicle even if local laws make it illegal. However, the gun must be unloaded, stored in the trunk, and the ammo stored separately elsewhere. In other words, it's no good for self defense. But even then, some places like Denver will confiscate them anyway.
Reference

Some rabidly anti-gun government employees don't give a flip about the law, and will make your life miserable for you while you prove that you are in the right.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

After the Los Angeles riots many years ago, a lot of those liberals went running to gun stores in droves, only to find out that they couldn't have a gun right away, because there was a mandatory two-week waiting period.

And the moral of that story is: Don't wait until you need a gun to go buy it. Buy it before you need it.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

In Alabama, you cannot carry a gun in your vehicle. There may be others, but this is one I'm aware of because I drive through that state several times per year. You also couldn't do it in Texas, until yesterday, and even with a new law in effect, it's still questionable. The Houston District Attorney has said he still intends to prosecute for it.
Reference

Lot more exceptions than that. CA requires, at least for hand guns, that it be in the trunk or a locked container other than the glove compartment. Unloaded.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Lot more exceptions than that. CA requires, at least for hand guns, that it be in the trunk or a locked container other than the glove compartment. Unloaded.

Yes. That's why I warned against the generalization. If someone plans on traveling interstate with a loaded gun, they need to check the laws in every state through which they will travel. To stay legal, it often involves stopping at state lines, and doing something different with the gun.

When I travel from Texas to Florida, I'm okay in every state except the 40 miles across Alabama. For that section, I have to stop and put my gun in the trunk, and unload it. I have a concealed handgun license in Texas, which is the only thing making me legal there.

You can check the laws here.

[ViperPilot 0]

Vermont - "It is lawful to carry a firearm openly or concealed provided the firearm is not carried with the intent or avowed purpose of injuring a fellow man."

If you're carrying a concealed weapon loaded and chambered, walking around downtown...well what exact purpose are you doing that for except for the possible outcome of shooting someone? How it's worded is very questionable; says nothing about being loaded, chambered, etc. I don't think I would push it w/ this law.

Alabama - Well, didn't know that one.

Quote

Denver will confiscate them anyway.

You can't have them concealed if you LIVE in Denver. If you're "passing" through, i.e. don't have a Denver address, then you're fine...I know .

[lucia 0]

You guys from the big american country have a big big problem with guns, cant you see that??????? Giving everybody the permission to carry guns and to buy them anywhere is really making you be a really unsafe country. I live in Spain Im 25 and Ive never seen a gun in my whole life!!!!! And I love it ,you know why?? Because most of the people that live in my city has never seen it, like me. I am shure that if I have a car accident I can come out of my car confident to know that a guy is not going to point me a gun at my head in the middle of a highway just because he is pissed off!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was raised in a home where it was impossible to find a gun in Dads closet and all my friends aswell. How can you say that that is not safe!
If nobody has a gun , nobody can shoot a gun. Its that simple. At least for me.
Then there is a little problem behind that I know, you have such a big weapon industry that eliminating it is almost impossible. Those companies are so strong that they are not going to let you guys throw those guns to the garbage unless you buy new ones.

Lucy in the Sky
http:\\www.skydivelillo.com

[nate_1979 9]

And I grew up with guns, and I like guns, and I will own a gun till the day I die..

I'm still alive, never been shot, just like most of the people here in the US.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[waltappel 1]

Lucia,

We do indeed have a lot of guns in our country, but you probably have a distorted image of the crime problem here. The crime is not caused by guns. Guns are a tool used to commit some crimes. They are also used to prevent or stop crimes.

I think most police officers have the view that illegal drugs and the erosion of the family unit have much more to do with our crime problem than guns.

My guess is that if all the guns were to be removed from our culture, the problem with violence would not decrease very much--it would just take a different form. Maybe people beating each other with sticks and pipes--I don't know.

In our experience, laws that restrict gun ownership are only effective at taking guns away from law-abiding citizens. Criminals don't care about the laws. They will find a way to have guns regardless of what the laws are. Because of that, any laws restricting gun ownership make the law-abiding citizens less safe.

In your culture, like many cultures outside of the US, families are very important. In the US, it is less so. We have an enormous number of single-parent families, either through divorce, death, or by choice. In many cases, the lack of supervision of the kids is resulting in behavioral problems including criminal activities. It's not that we like it this way; our culture just seems to have evolved in this direction.

Do not be surprised if your country develops the same types of social problems we have in the future. You may think that it cannot happen, but it can.

Walt

[Rookie120 0]

Oh boy I am gonna have fun with this one. Where do I start.

Quote

You guys from the big american country have a big big problem with guns,

Really? what problem is that? That we have the right to defend ourselves with force. The it's in our constitution our right to bear arms. The fact that I love to hunt, sport shoot and collect older firearms? Please tell me what our problem is in Big America has with guns.

Quote

Giving everybody the permission to carry guns and to buy them anywhere is really making you be a really unsafe country.

You obviously have no idea the laws we have on the hand here in the US. The ropes you have to jump to buy a firearm here is really getting out of control. There are background checks. In some places like Washington DC you cant own a hand gun period. In some parts of the country there are restrictions on how big you can go. To get a concealed carry permit you have to go through several classes and then practical course on a range so you can prove that you can handle the firearm you are trying to get a permit to carry for. So how is this making us very unsafe. The fact that I was able to defend private property and stop a crime in progress until the police arrived. I never fired a shot. Nobody was hurt and the police got there man with the help from me and a 12guage.

Quote

I live in Spain Im 25 and Ive never seen a gun in my whole life!!!!!

This proves to me that you know nothing about firearms and have no reason to say that we are more dangerous for having them.

Quote

I am shure that if I have a car accident I can come out of my car confident to know that a guy is not going to point me a gun at my head in the middle of a highway just because he is pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

OOOOH yes, Because this is such a big problem here in the US. Get into a fender bender and getting your head blown off. I have seen it a million times. I hope you see the sarcasm.

Quote

I was raised in a home where it was impossible to find a gun in Dads closet and all my friends as well. How can you say that that is not safe!

I was raised in a home where firearms where everywhere. Never had any accidents, no injuries. So how can you say that it is unsafe?

Quote

If nobody has a gun , nobody can shoot a gun.

Yeah, everyone except the criminal who has a gun. Good thinking on that one.

Quote

Then there is a little problem behind that I know, you have such a big weapon industry that eliminating it is almost impossible.

You obviously have no idea how much money companies like Remington, Winchester, Browning, Colt, Glock, actually make every year. It's a lot lower than what most people think. To put in short Remington did not make 5 billion last year. From what I read they cleared just over 2 million last year.

Quote

Those companies are so strong that they are not going to let you guys throw those guns to the garbage unless you buy new ones.

So strong? they are getting hammered everytime they go to court with some bullshit lawsuit from somebody who got shot by there gun. If thats the way it's going to be I'm going to go file a suit against Honda for there product running into the side of me 6 months ago. Here it is straight. America loves guns, for hunting, self protection, sport, collection. They are not going anywhere. From what I have seen of the crime rate in Britain since they banned firearms, I would say they will never ban them here. A lot of states are actually making it easier to get car and conceal permits. Best of luck in your gunless country.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 2,146]

I like your post.

The issue I have with the pro-gun lobby is the opposition to any form of control. On the whole it doesn't bother me at all that someone with a clean record who has proper firearms training and keeps current can carry a concealed weapon.

What bothers me is when an untrained person keeps a gun at home "for protection". An untrained gun user is a hazard to themself and to anyone around them, and guns that are improperly secured are liable to theft by criminals and misuse by kids and others.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kbordson 8]

Lucy,

I appreciate that you have your opinion and might honestly believe the comments that you typed. But, I don't know that you understand the concepts concerning gun control or rights of citizens.

It's not a matter of "just get rid of the guns and we all live in peace." Thats too idealistic and naive... and I'm sure you know that. It's a matter of making sure that the correct people are able to legally own firearms as is their right and that they act responsibily with that right.

Your opinion on US society might be biased by TV or movies... because it is NOT common to end road rage with gunplay... does it happen - sure, but chances are those guns weren't bought legally. Does it happen that children end up hurting each other with guns, yes... but they also die by eating tylenol or other meds left unattended (iron suppliments is bad for that too). But again... the legally owned firearms, controlled by responsible adults do not cause the problems that you addressed.

Maybe one day you will have the oppurtunity to visit the US and you will better understand that it's not the "wild west" over here. And that your fear of our "big big problem with guns" is rather unfounded. Until that point, just be willing to accept the fact that we consider it our RIGHT to defend ourself, to protect ourself and to pursue happiness (and for somepeople that might mean competition shooting, or collecting firearms). As long as we are not harming others, the government should not infringe on that right.

Karen

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

The issue I have with the pro-gun lobby is the opposition to any form of control.

I dont think they oppose any form of control. It's the fact that they keep making more laws that seem to have no effect on crime but it gives the politicians a warm fuzzy feeling and makes them feel like they done some good for the people.

Quote

On the whole it doesn't bother me at all that someone with a clean record who has proper firearms training and keeps current can carry a concealed weapon.

You one of the few my friend. Most anit gun people want to take every gun off the street. I have no idea how they plan to make that happen. The gun lobby itself has never said they want know felons to be able to buy firearms. They just get pissed when they limit what we law abiding people can buy. If I was to buy a .50 Cal. Why does it matter why I want it. If I have never broken any laws and have had the background checks why cant I buy one.

Quote

An untrained gun user is a hazard to themselves and to anyone around them, and guns that are improperly secured are liable to theft by criminals and misuse by kids and others.

This is why the NRA and other pro hunting and firearm groups have courses and live ranges to train anybody. A lot of these classes are free to the public or at a very low fee. These clubs have also sponsored giving away millions of free gun locks to anybody who need them. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt but no matter how many things we do to try keep people from shooting themselves there will always be some dipshit shooting himself in the foot.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

***An untrained gun user is a hazard to themselves and to anyone around them, and guns that are improperly secured are liable to theft by criminals and misuse by kids and others.

This is why the NRA and other pro hunting and firearm groups have courses and live ranges to train anybody. A lot of these classes are free to the public or at a very low fee. These clubs have also sponsored giving away millions of free gun locks to anybody who need them. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt but no matter how many things we do to try keep people from shooting themselves there will always be some dipshit shooting himself in the foot.

That is why some form of mandatory training is needed. Doing it voluntarily is as useless as making a pilot's license voluntary if you want to fly a jet.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

I am not sure mandatory training would change much at all. Sure I could 'study for the test' or 'behave in the class'...but when the time comes and the moment of truth is here...it is going to come down to my personality and instinctive actions.

All I got out of the classes was how to put myself in a position to have solid legs to stand on in a court of law when the gray areas are hid under by lawyers.

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

That is why some form of mandatory training is needed.

Dont know about your state but the ones I have hunted in a hunters safety and gun school is mandatory for you to get a hunting license.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[lucia 0]

As a matter of fact I lived one year in Boston and attenden for 16 years tHE AMERICAN SCHOOL oF Bilbao here in Spain. I celebrated Halloween, and Thanksgiving, and had constantly exchange students from the us in my house.
When I lived in Boston I stayed one year in a host family, the most lovely family in the world, but there was something that scared me to death and it was the fact that my host dad had several guns hidden around the house. It just frightens me so much.
I respect your culture, I was raised in that culture in my school (I was the member of the first cheerleader team that ever existed in my country!) and know your anthem by heart, and had to learn all the states and their capital even before the countries of europe, and learned about Paul Revere and the Pilgrims before I was taught anything about my country. And I loved It! I even learn how to read in english earlier than in spanish!
The US is a fantastic country but for me not in all aspects. Firearms are a big issue there and when I lived there it just scared me to death.
You guys say it is your right to be able to defend yourselves, maybe all that fear comes because it is scary to know that almost everybody has a gun and knows how to use it.
I remember that in Boston in my way to school every morning I would go by this big sign in the street. The sign(Im talking about a big huge sign in the highway) had pictures of kids, lovely healthy kids, and it took me for a while to guess what the story was about. Until one day I figuered it out, they where pictured of kids that had died accidentaly due to a gunshot. It shocked me so much.
If you feel guns are a part of I respect that, we have Bullfights, I dont know whats worse.

Lucy in the Sky
http:\\www.skydivelillo.com

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

When I lived in Boston I stayed one year in a host family, the most lovely family in the world, but there was something that scared me to death and it was the fact that my host dad had several guns hidden around the house. It just frightens me so much.

What and where does this fear of firearms come from? Were you shot at once or what? You speak like these guns are going to fall off the shelf and shoot at you.

Quote

The US is a fantastic country but for me not in all aspects

Join the club. I love this country more than anything but there are some thing here I dont like myself.

Quote

Firearms are a big issue there and when I lived there it just scared me to death.

Once again I dont understand this phobia against firearms you have. From what I have seen from people who are scared of guns it was from a lack of knowledge and understanding about firearms in general.

Quote

You guys say it is your right to be able to defend yourselves, maybe all that fear comes because it is scary to know that almost everybody has a gun and knows how to use it.

Not everybody has a gun. It could be a knife or just a physical assault. If a man who is 6'8 260lbs mugs me then proceeds to put a severe ass whoopin on me I need something to even the odds a little bit.

Quote

I remember that in Boston in my way to school every morning I would go by this big sign in the street. The sign(Im talking about a big huge sign in the highway) had pictures of kids, lovely healthy kids, and it took me for a while to guess what the story was about. Until one day I figuered it out, they where pictured of kids that had died accidentaly due to a gunshot. It shocked me so much.

If this you knowledge on firearms no wonder your scared of them.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kbordson 8]

Lucy,

I appreciate that you have your opinion and you are entitled to it, as are the many that share your thoughts (and there are many - you are not alone in your view)... but I simply wish it were based on LOGIC and not emotion. That way you might better understand that the guns bought and owned legally are not "as dangerous" as the press might make it seem. You mention repeatedly that you fear guns and that they scare you... but fear and respect are two different things. If you know about firearms and respect them for what they can do, then that understanding is different than a blind fear that may have been instilled in you.
Knowledge is very important in this debate/discussion. Unfortunately, a lot of the arguments/laws are not based on proper knowledge.

Also, as you pointed out... there is a lot more to America than simply gun ownership. You have the right here... but you don't have to exercise that right if you are not comfortable doing so.

Yes, accidents do happen. They are tragic... but many accidents happen, not just firearms related. Life is dangerous.... especially so for children
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11533353&query_hl=5
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9724680&dopt=Abstract
But that's why they have parents to watch over them (and a lot of time a good bit of luck) Not that any one of these deaths would justify the death of a child who died by accidental shooting... I'm using it as a point that even inspite of good parents, sometimes bad things happen.

But I do not feel that I should sacrifice one of my rights to "protect" society from the possible risks. I do not want to live in a society created for my protection. I want to be able to decide what I feel is "safe" or not, whether that be firearms, skydiving or medicine.... everything has risks. You just have to try to understand those and live with those risks that you feel comfortable with.
That ability to decide is what I like about America. (however, we are loosing that right every day - partially due to the desire of some just to "be safe" and partially due to people sueing others for life not being safe)

Karen

[ripcord4 0]

Loaded firearms may be carried openly in a vehicle by any person qualified under Federal law to possess a fiorearm. Concealed carry is limited to those individuals who possess a Louisiana license to carry. Such permits are granted by state authorities on a "shall issue" basis.

Open carry of a firearm in a vehicle may be interpreted to include carry of a firearm in the glove compartment.

Louisiana permits open carry of a firearm on foot except while on school grounds.

[Nightingale 0]

I think many of us who are pro-gun ownership support some regulation and training. The problem is that the people writing the laws have no experience with firearms.

Example: the recent ban in California on 50 caliber weapons. It makes no sense. 50 caliber rifles can be about 5 feet tall. They're too damn awkward for criminal use (IIRC, there hasn't been one single murder in California history with a 50 cal). They're used primarily for hunting and target shooting. Why the heck ban a weapon that a criminal isn't going to be using to begin with. 50 caliber guns are damned expensive, and so is the ammo. Someone's more likely to remember someone buying 50 caliber ammo than 22 caliber. Criminals don't want people remembering them, and they don't usually spend hundreds (thousands sometimes) on rifles. Crime statistics for the US in the 90s indicate that out of all gun homicides, less than 4% were committed with rifles of any kind. 8/10ths of 1% of these were committed with military caliber weapons, like the 50 cal. Approximately 3% of gun homicides were committed with a weapon that could be classified as an "assault weapon." source: FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, CRIME IN THE UNITED STATES

People who don't know anything about guns tend to advocate banning the ones that "look scary" rather than the ones that are actually used in most homicides. The "assault rifles" that the gun control advocates seem hell bent on banning just aren't practical for use as a criminal weapon, because they're big, awkward, expensive, and noticible. You can't really conceal a rifle, and you definitely can't conceal it as easily as a handgun. The government is making no sense in regards to the weapons it's choosing to ban.

[eaglenrider 0]

Quote

Quote

In every place in this Nation you have the Right to carry any firearms in any manner you deem fit.

Incredibly far from the truth...but man that'd be cool.

_________________________________________________

No Viper Pilot, It is absolute Truth that every human has a Right to carry fire arms at any time and at any place.
This Right is not limited to handguns or longguns but includes bombs, bazookas , tanks and rockets as well.
As a matter of fact , the Right of an Individual to bear arms includes each and every type arm and weaponry which the US government holds or deploys in its' arsenal.

Granted, governments of Man might at times seek to infringe upon or limit the Rights of the Individual.
This attempt to infringe does not negate the Individuals' inherent Rights.

This Nation was founded on the principal of Freedom.

It is amazing to me how many of todays Citizens don't understand what that word means.

Tell me this, Viper Pilot, where in the definition of "Freedom" do you see any clause that restricts any Individual from taking any action He/She pleases,as long as it doesn't interfere with the Rights of others?

How does one Individual carring any weapon interfere with the Rights of others?

Blues,
Cliff

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

What bothers me is when an untrained person keeps a gun at home "for protection". An untrained gun user is a hazard to themself and to anyone around them, and guns that are improperly secured are liable to theft by criminals and misuse by kids and others.

Same applies to the open sale of Escalades.