Bush compares Iraq war to WWII

[sfc 1]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167675,00.html
and
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/30/bush.ap/index.html

What a pile of BS, does he think we are all stupid or what.
I wonder what the excuse for the Iraq invasion will be next week?


to quote...

CORONADO, California (AP) -- Facing a public increasingly wary of his war policies, President Bush declared Tuesday that America cannot rest until its freedom is secure and likened his spreading-democracy vision to Franklin D. Roosevelt's.

Commemorating the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II, the president drew comparisons between that 20th-century conflict and current wars on terror and in Iraq.

"As we mark this anniversary, we are again a nation at war. Once again war came to our shores with a surprise attack that killed thousands in cold blood," he said at a naval base here, referring to September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

He said that as in the time of World War II, the United States now faces "a ruthless enemy" and "once again we will not rest until victory is America's and our freedom is secure."

[DexterBase 1]

I think if you ever had to face the enemy he's talking about, you'd have to agree that they are indeed very ruthless.

A lot of us realize that this world isn't cut and dry, nor is it black and white.

People want simple explanations to complicated questions, and simple justifications for complex decisions.

This situation we're in is absolutely fucked. None of us wanted it, but it's here all the same. We're at war that's the fact and reality of the situation. We (the US and allies) are going to see this through the best we can because we like our way of life and we'd like to see to it that our future generations will have the opportunity to experience freedom.

So many are quick to criticize President Bush for the course our country is taking. I suppose that's the burden of command, but I think he's being expected to live up to some incredibly unrealistic expectations.

America was pumped up to fight after September 11, 2001. America wanted revenge for the attacks. That's the truth.

Our military and government leaders assessed the situation and decided on a course of action. There's no possible way that the masses crying out for blood could have possibly understood the realities of going to war with terrorists. Now, confronted with that reality, they want us to pull out because there are young men and women dying over there.

This is war. People die in war. Civilians get killed in war. Resources are taxed and stretched thin in war. That's the way war has always been, and that's the way war will always be.

The masses crying out for a withdrawal from Iraq didn't understand the situation before. They're not privy to a lot of the information and intelligence that critical decisions were based on. They're still not privy to that information. They don't understand the situation on the ground over there, and all they have to go with is what they see on network news.

Granted, a few are more educated and are probably more capable of making a more informed decision based on the global climate, current terrorist intelligence, military capabilities, history of the region and religious values of the people involved... but those people are certainly in the minority.

If those people aren't fully aware of the facts needed to make a decision on the proper course of action, why would their instinctive reaction to end the violence over there be the proper decision?

I don't know much. I'm not educated. I don't have college degrees. What I do know is that our president has a job that very few people can fully appreciate. The war on terror is only one facet of the many problems we're dealing with as a country. We're at war, but our country didn't stop functioning just because of that.

He's doing his best and that's what the American people elected him to do. We're all human, even presidents.

I see a lot of people criticizing, but not doing anything themselves to improve the situation.

War fucking sucks. I know this from personal experience, but losing this war is going to suck so much worse.

[ViperPilot 0]

Incredibly well put. Nothing more that I can say...

[rhys 0]

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War fucking sucks. I know this from personal experience, but losing this war is going to suck so much worse.

so why start a war that cannot be won. humans will bicker and fight until there are humans no more.

i think lockheed martin, texaco and the fat cats club had more to do with this war than the freedom of you and me. are you kidding yourself or what?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[crozby 0]

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Commemorating the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II, the president drew comparisons between that 20th-century conflict and current wars on terror and in Iraq.

"As we mark this anniversary, we are again a nation at war. Once again war came to our shores with a surprise attack that killed thousands in cold blood," he said at a naval base here, referring to September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

He said that as in the time of World War II, the United States now faces "a ruthless enemy" and "once again we will not rest until victory is America's and our freedom is secure."

I just find it amazing that people continue to lap up his cheesy bullshit. "Victory is America's"?? "Freedom is secure"?? What a crock.

[bodypilot90 0]

are you saying the people of the area are not smart enough to find peace. I find that odd, I think they want to live and raise a family having freedom just like you and me.

[kallend 2,150]

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Incredibly well put. Nothing more that I can say...

No, it was based on the FALSE premise that the war in Iraq was the war on terrorists.

The war in Iraq has boosted the number of terrorists and represents the complete failure of Bush's vision and management.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Prove your cite - and not the chicken little "quagmire" bullshit, either.

Show me numbers.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AlexCrowley 0]

The "War on Terror" is bogus.

1. A true "war on terror" can never be won.

2. How does one qualify as a 'terrorist', by whos rules? according to new rules a hacker is now a terrorist. Defacing a website with 'Your'e a doody head' is a terrorist act!

3. Terrorist or freedom fighter? who judges the difference?

The thing that makes me very uneasy about anti-terror laws are that terror is based on ideology, which is based on thought. the US is creating laws that say 'your belief can now be a crime'. Hackers as terrorists? Of course an unwashed socially inept overweight guy with clammy hands and a stutter hitting on a cute blonde could be considered an act of terror for the blonde in question.

Given the Patriot acts various odius clauses, how soon before civil disobedience could be considered an act of terrorism? dissent? contrary thinking? a return of the sedition laws?

An overreaction? Perhaps, I am not a huge fan of slippery slope arguments, but as a person who works in a field that has been under seige from poorly written laws in recent years it's not far from a possibility. According to laws I already have an arsenel of military grade weaponry, in fact - just by performing my job as it is described I am technically a terrorist. That's a fun thing to think about on quiet days:)

In reference to Iraq....lets see: no terrorists before the US invasion, now we hear that Al Quiada have several top level operatives embedded there. That's a pretty good argument.

Lets not even consider the radicalizing of a significant number of Iraq citizens, the fact that the Muslim world now has a reason to believe all the stuff they thought Osama was spouting bullshit about before, and finally, that Muslims do think the US is very very wrong in all this - which helps swell the ranks of the disaffected, which in turn increases the number of potential recruits for various terrorist organizations.

Find your own sources to verify these statements, as I wouldnt want to run the risk of quoting something that someone would consider "biased" as in (this is biased to the left/right/'reality I refuse to consider possible').

Bottom line: Afghanistan was considered somewhat justifiable. Iraq pissed an awful lot of people off and created a situation that is unwinnable on a number of levels, and regardless of the outcome can only damage the US in the longer term.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Darius11 12]

Ok let me get this straight.

The president is using 9-11 to justify the war in Iraq and you think he is only humane and oops he made a mistake?

Nice post and all but you missed point out how in the world is 9-11 related to Iraq.
This administration has already admitted that there is no known link, so maybe there is an imaginary link in GWB dreams or head but not one in this dimension.

I do agree with one thing. We can not pull out now until there is a REAL democracy in Iraq. Well there ever be a real democracy? I don’t think so but I hope I am wrong.

The war on terror will never be won, even if the war agents OBL is won there will always be more terrorist.
By are actions we are making sure of that.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gravitymaster 0]

I thought you were more concerned about domestic terrorism. Didn't you tell me we didn't need to be concerned about 50,000 AQ members because they represented such a small percentage of Muslims worldwide?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Ok let me get this straight.

The president is using 9-11 to justify the war in Iraq and you think he is only humane and oops he made a mistake?

Nice post and all but you missed point out how in the world is 9-11 related to Iraq.
This administration has already admitted that there is no known link, so maybe there is an imaginary link in GWB dreams or head but not one in this dimension.

I do agree with one thing. We can not pull out now until there is a REAL democracy in Iraq. Well there ever be a real democracy? I don’t think so but I hope I am wrong.

The war on terror will never be won, even if the war agents OBL is won there will always be more terrorist.
By are actions we are making sure of that.

Define "Real Democracy".

[Darius11 12]

Real Democracy.


There is no absolute power and no absolute power to veto that one person holds.
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of religion
Presidents have short terms of 6-8 Years
More then one political party holds all the power.
More important then any thing is that the majority wins, but the minority shares the same freedoms and opportunities as all.

I am not good at writing the whole constitution in the few min. I have. But my main fear is that the Iraq will become like Iran. Where there is a kind of a fake democracy where the candidates get approved by the guys who are already in power and every thing can be vetoed by the supreme leader (I think that is just bullshit).
For true Democracy we need the separation of Church/ Masque(Masjid) and State

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[masterblaster72 0]

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He's doing his best and that's what the American people elected him to do.

No, he's not doing his best. I don't think he is. I believe he can do much better.

If you think this is his best, you have to do something about your standards pal.

Personally I am angered at what a f.cking fiasco this war has become. "Conservative" is a misnomer for the right anymore. We're suffering from fiscal diarrhea at this administration's hands, going broke on a mission that's not even close to being accomplished.

But if you are correct and this is his best, it shows how feeble-minded and incompetent he really is.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Real Democracy.


There is no absolute power and no absolute power to veto that one person holds.
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of religion
Presidents have short terms of 6-8 Years
More then one political party holds all the power.
More important then any thing is that the majority wins, but the minority shares the same freedoms and opportunities as all.

I am not good at writing the whole constitution in the few min. I have. But my main fear is that the Iraq will become like Iran. Where there is a kind of a fake democracy where the candidates get approved by the guys who are already in power and every thing can be vetoed by the supreme leader (I think that is just bullshit).
For true Democracy we need the separation of Church/ Masque(Masjid) and State

A "Real Democracy" only means that it's the "Power of the People". If the majority rules that there should be no freedom of religion, then religious persecution can be a democratic decision. Democracy is NOT synonymous with freedom in all parts of the world. Trying to force a form of government upon a group of people is in no way a guarantee that it will result in freedom for these people.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[kallend 2,150]

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Prove your cite - and not the chicken little "quagmire" bullshit, either.

Show me numbers.

Here's a starter:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html

www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1002

Bushs' policies are bankrupt and a total FAILURE. He has led us into a QUAGMIRE and achieved zilch in exchange.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AlexCrowley 0]

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I thought you were more concerned about domestic terrorism. Didn't you tell me we didn't need to be concerned about 50,000 AQ members because they represented such a small percentage of Muslims worldwide?

Sometimes I wonder if your oversized gentalia causes a lack of blood in your brain GM

I said that racial profiling was stupid.

I also said that domestic terrorism from white christians was as much, if not greater, a threat than crazy muslims.

As far as my 'long term damage to america' comment, it wasnt just about attacks on our soil, it was about feeding a hydra that will be, for all intents and purposes, indestructable. It was about pissing away good will and international co-operation. It was about causing such a rift between ideologically seperated societies that being heard by more moderate voices is far less likely than before.

The reality is that the US going at it alone is going to be nothing more than a motivator for terrorism rather than an international consensus that could really effect radical change and reduce the causes of terrorism, it's funding, and its recruitment cycle.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I thought you were more concerned about domestic terrorism. Didn't you tell me we didn't need to be concerned about 50,000 AQ members because they represented such a small percentage of Muslims worldwide?

Quote

Sometimes I wonder if your oversized gentalia causes a lack of blood in your brain GM

Why yes sometime my oversized genetalia does get it the way, but in this case, they didn't. Here's what I said:

The point you keep failing to understand is that there are over 50,000 Muslims out there who are associated with Al Qaeda and would participate in an attack on US soil. I would be much more concerned about them than I would an abortion clinic bomber, as would most people. I wouldn't be anywhere near an abortion clinic, but I do use planes, trains, cruise ships and occaisionally public transportation. The likelyhood of an attack there is greater because a terrorist using a WMD wans to kill us because we are Americans. An abortion clinic bomber wants to kill only those involved in recieving or performing abortions.

and here is your response:

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50,000 out of 1.1 billion.

What is that anyway? 0.00045%

Ok, lets see:

1:220000 muslims may be a terrorist.

Of course, racial profiling is so obviously a useful tool.

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I said that racial profiling was stupid.

Yes you did.

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I also said that domestic terrorism from white christians was as much, if not greater, a threat than crazy muslims.

Isn't that what I just said you said?

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As far as my 'long term damage to america' comment, it wasnt just about attacks on our soil, it was about feeding a hydra that will be, for all intents and purposes, indestructable. It was about pissing away good will and international co-operation. It was about causing such a rift between ideologically seperated societies that being heard by more moderate voices is far less likely than before.

So you see it as a growing threat? Isn't that what I said also? Didn't I point out that I was more concerned about the number of terrorists we were creating and thats why I thought it was a bigger threat than domestic terroists? Go back and read the thread.

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The reality is that the US going at it alone is going to be nothing more than a motivator for terrorism rather than an international consensus that could really effect radical change and reduce the causes of terrorism, it's funding, and its recruitment cycle.

No, the reality is the US is not going it alone outside of Iraq, which is only part of the global threat. France, Germany Italy, Australia, The Phillipines and many other countries are also involved. The US is only the current reason the terrorists are using for recruitment, before that it was Israel and it will be something else when it's no longer the US. That's the tactic that terrorists use. They are always able to find justifications.

• Quote

[sfc 1]

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I think if you ever had to face the enemy he's talking about, you'd have to agree that they are indeed very ruthless.

A lot of us realize that this world isn't cut and dry, nor is it black and white.

and so on...

Yawn, you sound just like the broken Bush record.

This president screwed up and has not the balls to admit it. He (and his oil cronies) miscalculated and created a terrorist haven called Iraq.
It does not take a college degree to see that, all you need to do is stop taking what Bush says as the gospel truth.
I mean he used WMD and UN resolutions to justify invasion and now he is using 9/11, don't you see this u-turn? How does a degree help with understanding this??

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Prove your cite - and not the chicken little "quagmire" bullshit, either.

Show me numbers.

Here's a starter:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html

www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1002

Bushs' policies are bankrupt and a total FAILURE. He has led us into a QUAGMIRE and achieved zilch in exchange.

Oh, so now we're responsible for terrorist attacks anywhere in the world? Nice little club to beat the administration with. As for the numbers in Iraq - how many of those attacks are from AQ members from other countries that have gone to Iraq to get a shot at us?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

I think if you ever had to face the enemy he's talking about, you'd have to agree that they are indeed very ruthless.

A lot of us realize that this world isn't cut and dry, nor is it black and white.

and so on...

Yawn, you sound just like the broken Bush record.

This president screwed up and has not the balls to admit it. He (and his oil cronies) miscalculated and created a terrorist haven called Iraq.
It does not take a college degree to see that, all you need to do is stop taking what Bush says as the gospel truth.
I mean he used WMD and UN resolutions to justify invasion and now he is using 9/11, don't you see this u-turn? How does a degree help with understanding this??

Oil....oil....oil.....

Kettle, meet pot.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Prove your cite - and not the chicken little "quagmire" bullshit, either.

Show me numbers.

Here's a starter:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html

www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1002

Bushs' policies are bankrupt and a total FAILURE. He has led us into a QUAGMIRE and achieved zilch in exchange.

Oh, so now we're responsible for terrorist attacks anywhere in the world? Nice little club to beat the administration with. As for the numbers in Iraq - how many of those attacks are from AQ members from other countries that have gone to Iraq to get a shot at us?

"Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. (Applause.) "

G.W. Bush, Address to Congress, Sept. 2001.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Ah, the "Blame America First" gambit....

Prove we're (as in the United States military, by order of Congress) actively fighting terrorists in those other countries and I'll concede the point.

Otherwise I consider it more doom-and-gloom from the Liberal Left...say anything, use any proof... as long as it makes the current administration look bad.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sfc 1]

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Ah, the "Blame America First" gambit....

Prove we're (as in the United States military, by order of Congress) actively fighting terrorists in those other countries and I'll concede the point.

Otherwise I consider it more doom-and-gloom from the Liberal Left...say anything, use any proof... as long as it makes the current administration look bad.

Ah, the "I'm an American and we can do no wrong gambit so you must be a left wing commie for disagreeing with me and voicing an independent thought".

You should read 1984 (george orwell)

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Ah, the "Blame America First" gambit....

Prove we're (as in the United States military, by order of Congress) actively fighting terrorists in those other countries and I'll concede the point.

Otherwise I consider it more doom-and-gloom from the Liberal Left...say anything, use any proof... as long as it makes the current administration look bad.

Yes, and the Right NEVER does that when they oppose the administration.

God, republicans and democrats make me want to vomit.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.