Let's See Some BS (courtesy of CBS)

[Kennedy 0]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/19/opinion/main788517.shtml

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Guns At Work
August 19, 2005

Listen to the evening news and you’re likely to hear a grizzly story about a disaffected worker or estranged spouse or dissatisfied customer arriving at a workplace and going ballistic. It’s all too common.

About 17 employees are murdered every week in American workplaces by someone with a gun, making gun-related killings the third-biggest safety hazard facing American workers -- right after vehicles and machines. In fact, gun-related homicide is the leading cause of death at the workplace for women.

Researchers at the University of North Carolina have shown that killings are five times more likely to occur at workplaces where guns are allowed as where they’re prohibited. It’s just common sense.

So what are we doing about this? Some well-known American companies are taking action. It’s government that’s the problem.

A while back, the Weyerhauser Corporation banned weapons in cars parked in its employee parking lots. Workers who thereafter arrived with shotguns, handguns, rifles, and automatic weapons were fired.

But legislators in Oklahoma didn’t like this at all. Apparently Oklahoma’s lawmakers are more concerned about protecting gun owners than protecting average working people. So they enacted a state law preventing companies from instituting no-guns-in-company-parking-lot policies. Unless something’s done, the law goes into effect this November.

Thankfully, something is being done. A group of companies is going to court to block that Oklahoma law. They say they have a right to take action to protect their employees on company property. These companies -- including the energy giant Halliburton; aircraft-part maker Nordam; and ConocoPhillips, the largest oil refiner in America -- deserve the thanks of workers in Oklahoma and in any other states where gun-fawning lawmakers are intent on endangering them.

True to form, the National Rifle Association is taking a stand against these companies, and in favor of people who want to bring guns to work. It’s even organizing a boycott of ConocoPhillips gas stations.

Now, you may ask, where is the federal government in all this? The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is supposed to set national policy for workplace safety. Since it was established more than 30 years ago, OSHA has often been corporate America’s worst nightmare, focusing its enforcement on picayune rules and regulations.

Now here’s OSHA’s chance to side with corporate America and protect workers’ lives. OSHA ought to ban guns in every workplace across America -- thereby preempting the Oklahoma legislation and sending the National Rifle Association packing.

If OSHA fails to take action on this one, you might suspect that the National Rifle Association has trained its sights on the Bush administration.

Robert B. Reich is cofounder of The American Prospect. A version of this column appeared on Marketplace.

The truth is just a weee bit different...

http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2005/08/20/higher_and_higher_the_numbers_climb/

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I am having a good laugh right now at the sad quality of the CBS News. Everytime I read about gun related deaths while on the job they seem to be going up and up.

CBS is the latest to throw some numbers out that have little to do with reality.

Listen to the evening news and you’re likely to hear a grizzly story about a disaffected worker or estranged spouse or dissatisfied customer arriving at a workplace and going ballistic. It’s all too common.

About 17 employees are murdered every week in American workplaces by someone with a gun, making gun-related killings the third-biggest safety hazard facing American workers — right after vehicles and machines. In fact, gun-related homicide is the leading cause of death at the workplace for women. "about 17" per week he said.

Lets see if it is correct. Now to err on the side of caution I will use only the number 16.5 to get these numbers. Don’t want to be accused of inflating these would I?

16.5 dead
x52 weeks a year
equals 858

Damn. That’s a lot of dead people. Only problem is it is made up. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics only gives the number of 487. Slightly smaller then the 858 number. The problem is that 487 is even a slightly misleading number when the data is examined.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution tried to use the 487 number in one of their anti-gun screeds but one of my commenters shot it down very fast.

But its accuracy is irrelevant. Notice the editorial’s wording, "487 people were shot to death at work." That total apparently includes every police officer, cab driver, bank teller, pawnbroker and quicky-mart employee shot and killed "at work," whether the shooter was a fleeing criminal, disgruntled customer, armed robber — or someone in a more relevant category like “angry employee” or "fed-up manager."

So the number CBS is giving out is bunko.

But I will say now that I am not surprised at all. Robert B. Reich, the editorial author, is best described as biased. I was surprised when I found what position he held.
http://www.robertreich.org/reich/biography.asp

As the nation’s 22nd Secretary of Labor, Reich presided over the implementation of the Family and Medical Leave Act; led a national fight against sweatshops in the U.S. and illegal child labor around the world; headed the administration’s successful effort to raise the minimum wage; secured worker’s pensions, and launched job-training programs, one-stop career centers, and school-to-work initiatives. Under his leadership, the Department of Labor earned more than 30 awards for innovation and government reinvention. A 1996 poll of cabinet experts conducted by the Hearst newspapers rated him the most effective cabinet secretary during the Clinton administration.

I would think that a person who was in charge of the department of labor would have better numbers, or at least tell the truth.

It's too bad they don't let the facts slow them down, otherwise we might actually make some progress. Does anyone else get sick of seeing patently absurd and completely false statements in the national media?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Great example of how the media twists the facts to present an incorrect view of guns.

And it happens all the time...

Thanks for busting this one wide open.

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, I wrote them an e-mail asking how they came up with that number. Care to lay odds on whether I'll hear back or not?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Does anyone else get sick of seeing patently absurd and completely false statements in the national media?

Exceedingly.

[skycop 0]

Now come on, the media twisting facts to further an agenda. I find that VERY hard to believe!!
Especially CBS News.

The view from the ivory tower is so clear............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Kennedy 0]

No, no, no, it's those elite academics, you know, the ones who are beter than us, that have that wonderful view from their ivory tower.

The media folks have trouble seeing past the haze of makeup powder and ass kissing sycophants.

edit:
Besides, is it really just "twisting" when you double the number for your report, and the number you doubled isn't even the correct number?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Salsa_John 0]

I heard on the morning news today that a customer with a pistol shot a man while he was repeatedly stabbing a woman. I bet she is glad he was there to stop the attack.

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Kennedy 0]

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Great example of how the media twists the facts to present an incorrect view of guns.

And it happens all the time...

John, even the government bureaucrats understand that the media is full of shit.

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"The circumstances of workplace homicides differ substantially from those portrayed by the media and from homicides in the general population. For the most part, workplace homicides are not the result of disgruntled workers who take out their frustrations on co-workers or supervisors, or of intimate partners and other relatives who killed loved ones in the course of a dispute; rather, they are mostly robbery-related crimes."

--National Institute for Occupational Safety And Health

* Studies conducted by both the U.S. Department of Labor and the Bureau of Justice Statistics show that between 75 and 82% of workplace homicides occur in connection with a robbery, such as the hold-up of a pizza delivery driver.

* Robbery-related homicides in the workplace are seven to eight times more frequent than those involving fellow employees.

* For workplace homicides, the taxicab industry has the highest risk--nearly 60 times the national average rate. The taxicab industry is followed by liquor stores, detective/protective services, gas service stations and jewelry stores.

* The occupations with the highest homicide rates are taxicab drivers/chauffeurs, sheriffs/bailiffs, police and detectives/public service, gas station/garage workers and security guards.

* Only about 1% of all workplace crime is committed by a boyfriend, girlfriend or spouse of the victim, and 60% is committed by total strangers, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

* Recently touted academic studies of workplace homicides found that there were more homicides in workplaces that allow employees to possess guns, but they failed to examine why guns were allowed.

* This same research found more homicides in workplaces having video cameras. So does the presence of video cameras increase the risk of homicide? Common sense says cameras are installed in workplaces already at high risk.

* Common sense is backed by sound research: as award-winning criminologist Gary Kleck has noted, links between levels of violence and gun ownership "appear to be primarily due to violence increasing gun ownership, rather than the reverse. "

* Workplace policies prohibiting firearms possession by employees are no deterrent to an armed robber who brings a weapon of his own.

* Employer policies that forbid firearms put employees who are at most risk from robbery--such as cab drivers and retail clerks--at greater risk by denying them the ability to defend themselves.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

See, now that's one of millions that make up the all-too-often ignored "benefit" of the cost-benefit analysis for guns.

People always want to ban guns for all the harm they are involved in* but those people never want to admit or consider the positive aspects of private ownership of firearms.

* (I refuse to say "the harm they cause" because they're metal and plastic, and don't cause anything)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[beowulf 1]

If guns were so dangerous as CBS would have us believe, then why haven't mine killed me yet?

[waltappel 1]

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Does anyone else get sick of seeing patently absurd and completely false statements in the national media?

Exceedingly.

I've reached the point where that is all I expect from them. They are are nothing but a sick joke.

Actually, that's probably not entirely true. The Weather Channel seems to be pretty good.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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Yeah, I wrote them an e-mail asking how they came up with that number. Care to lay odds on whether I'll hear back or not?

Did you e-mail the NRA?

Walt

[Kennedy 0]

NO, I used the contact us on the bottom of the CBS page. I also realized the article is a reprint from "the American Prospect."

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By Robert B. Reich
Reprinted with permission from The American Prospect, 5 Broad Street, Boston, MA 02109. All rights reserved.

The American Prospect is America's leading liberal magazine of politics, a blend of essay, criticism, investigation,commentary, and in-depth analysis.

So I wrote them too, asking where they got the 800+ number. Think I'll ever hear back?

ps - the NRA knows all about it.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mnealtx 0]

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I heard on the morning news today that a customer with a pistol shot a man while he was repeatedly stabbing a woman. I bet she is glad he was there to stop the attack.

No, John...guns are bad!! She obviously brought it on herself by being in the wrong area at the wrong time of night. Or, maybe she wasn't good enough at begging her attacker not to harm her...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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I heard on the morning news today that a customer with a pistol shot a man while he was repeatedly stabbing a woman. I bet she is glad he was there to stop the attack.

No, John...guns are bad!! She obviously brought it on herself by being in the wrong area at the wrong time of night. Or, maybe she wasn't good enough at begging her attacker not to harm her...

The guy with the pistol will lose the lawsuit from the stabber's relatives.

If it was a cop, he'd be chastized for not disarming and backing off to only a knife of his own - thus 'evening the odds'.

etc etc

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Kennedy 0]

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The guy with the pistol will lose the lawsuit from the stabber's relatives.

Thankfully, he won't lose the lawsuit, though he will lose a ton of money having to defend himself in the lawsuit. I think in every state it is legal to use force to protect another person as long as that person would be justified in using the same force to protect themself.

In this example, as long as the woman being stabbed didn't start the fight, she would be justified in using deadly force to stop her attacker, and therefore the man who intervened on her behalf is justified in using deadly force.
(I'm not going to go intotrying to convice certain liberal pacifists that deadly force is justified, but that's what the law says)

I suppose if you work on the principle that no one wins in lawsuits except lawyers, then yes, he'll lose too.

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If it was a cop, he'd be chastized for not disarming and backing off to only a knife of his own - thus 'evening the odds'.

Unfortunately, some people really do think this way. Frightening. Thankfully most of us don't.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Darius11 12]

I never got the BAN guns people.

If any one wants to commit a crime there not going to go to a gun store and buy one and give the guy there license and name. If they want to commit a crime there going to go to a shady part of town give some dude some cash and get a gun with serial number shaved of.

We have the right to bare arms, I understand not being able to have fully automatic, or grenade launchers. But we have the right to have guns.

You know what I never hear and I know it must happen often is people who guns saved their life and family. Or guys who tried to brake in and heard the guy fire a round in the air and ran away.

I would love to see some stories about how guns saved some guys family or stopped some scum bag from rapping his wife or daughter.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Salsa_John 0]

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If guns were so dangerous as CBS would have us believe, then why haven't mine killed me yet?

Let's start a ban cars movement. These inanimate objects kill many thousands of men women children each year. Firemen, policemen, teachers, mothers, fathers and more are killed each year by these lethal hunks of metal. When will the horror stop.

I work with DUI offenders to keep them off the street.

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[mnealtx 0]

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I never got the BAN guns people.

If any one wants to commit a crime there not going to go to a gun store and buy one and give the guy there license and name. If they want to commit a crime there going to go to a shady part of town give some dude some cash and get a gun with serial number shaved of.

We have the right to bare arms, I understand not being able to have fully automatic, or grenade launchers. But we have the right to have guns.

You know what I never hear and I know it must happen often is people who guns saved their life and family. Or guys who tried to brake in and heard the guy fire a round in the air and ran away.

I would love to see some stories about how guns saved some guys family or stopped some scum bag from rapping his wife or daughter.

Some examples

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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We have the right to bare arms,

Bare arms (Hey see that guy in the muscle shirt with no muscles?)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

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I heard on the morning news today that a customer with a pistol shot a man while he was repeatedly stabbing a woman. I bet she is glad he was there to stop the attack.

You see! That just raised the workplace gun violence count by one. Hey, they don't bother categorizing whether or not it was a justified defensive shooting - all shootings are bad to them.

[JohnRich 4]

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You know what I never hear and I know it must happen often is people who guns saved their life and family. Or guys who tried to brake in and heard the guy fire a round in the air and ran away.

I would love to see some stories about how guns saved some guys family or stopped some scum bag from rapping his wife or daughter.

Here you go - more stories than you can shake a stick gun at:

The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files:
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx

The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files:
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/

[Kennedy 0]

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You know what I never hear and I know it must happen often is people who guns saved their life and family. Or guys who tried to brake in and heard the guy fire a round in the air and ran away.

I would love to see some stories about how guns saved some guys family or stopped some scum bag from rapping his wife or daughter.

I don't have time to search all my old posts, but the short version is that at least 2.5 million people use guns defensively every year. Just don't expect CBS to run that story.

(google "DGU")

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*