TheAnvil 0 #126 August 27, 2005 REVERSE racism eh? BZZZZZZZZT! Wrong. You really should read what you post here. As I've quoted YOU quite often before: Quote Racism n. Discrimination or prejudice based on race Hard to run from your own words when they're posted for all to see. YOU choose to strictly define as racist anything that discriminates based upon race - including competent police work such as racial profiling. Therefore, when YOU choose to ignore the FACT that racial discrimination is an inseparable part of race-based Affirmative Action, you're merely proving that you have issues with facing FACTS. Your problem - deal with it however you like. It should be no great shocker that, quoting myself again, when middle eastern terrorist groups known to employ middle eastern men to carry out terrorist attacks against Western targets, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to profile potential terrorists in and around such targets. Airliners having been a traditional target, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to racially profile in security screening there. Most of us who are familiar with the news consider it res ipsa loquitor that the majority of terrorists attacking U.S. citizens, property, and allies are Middle Eastern fellows these days. Khobar Towers, USS COLE, IED's all over Iraq, Trade Center murders, homicide bombers in Israel, PAN AM bombing over Lockerbie, etc. Since several Islamic clerics/mullahs have said it's OK to do so, most of us expect these shitheads to try again. And here you are, crying racism about profiling gents who fit the description of these shitheads going onto planes - planes, by the way, have been targets of choice for these shitheads on several occasions; take a trip to NYC and see the results of one of them if you need further convincing. Attack FOX all you like by any means you desire - won't change the FACT that it's by far and away the mose fair and balanced news source on TV today. But, then again, you choose not to face facts that don't seem to agree with whatever you're thinking from what we've seen of you posting in this thread, so you probably won't face that one either. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #127 August 27, 2005 QuoteThere were 208 acts of international terrorism in 2003, a slight increase from the most recently published figure of 198* attacks in 2002, and a 42 percent drop from the level in 2001 of 355 attacks. This means nothing without being broken down by race or religion. QuoteA total of 625 persons were killed in the attacks of 2003, fewer than the 725 killed during 2002. A total of 3646 persons were wounded in the attacks that occurred in 2003, a sharp increase from 2013 persons wounded the year before. This increase reflects the numerous indiscriminate attacks during 2003 on “soft targets,” such as places of worship, hotels, and commercial districts, intended to produce mass casualties. Broken down by race/religion? QuoteMichael Rene Pouliot was killed on 21 January in Kuwait when a gunman fired at his vehicle that had halted at a stoplight. Hmm...Are we counting drive-bys as terrorism now? I don't think you want to go there. QuoteThomas Janis was murdered by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) terrorists on 13 February in Colombia. Mr. Janis was the pilot of a plane that crashed in the jungle. He and a Colombian service member were wounded in the crash; the terrorists shot them when they were discovered. Three U.S. citizen passengers on the plane -- Keith Stansell, Marc D. Gonsalves, and Thomas R. Howes -- were kidnapped and are still being held hostage as of June 2004 by the FARC. Thank you for supporting my argument. Columbia is in South America, not the middle east. FYI. (You might also hear it referred to as Central America.) QuoteWilliam Hyde was killed on 4 March in Davao, Philippines, when a bomb hidden in a backpack exploded in a crowded airline terminal. Twenty other persons died, and 149 were wounded. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) denies any connection to the suspected bomber, who claimed he was a MILF member I Googled MILF, and I gotta tell you, if that's terrorism, terrorize me! (Just making sure you're not taking things too seriously!) On a serious note, this does at first glance appear to possibly be the work of a Middle Eastern male. Perhaps more definitive evidence is available, but not posted. Fair Enough. Except it happened in the Philipines, so its not really relevant to the discussion at hand. Quote Abigail Elizabeth Litle was killed on 5 March when a suicide bomber boarded a bus in Haifa, Israel, and detonated an explosive device. You are aware that Israel and Palestine are known for not playing well together, right? That is hardly a threat to America. That is a threat to Israel. It doesn't concern me much when I'm in an American airport. QuoteRabbi Elnatan Eli Horowitz and his wife, Debra Ruth Horowitz, were killed on 7 March when a Palestinian gunman opened fire on them as they were eating dinner in the settlement of Kiryat Arba. Still not an attack on America. It was an attack on a Rabbi. Again, this sounds like part of the Israel Palastine Conflict. It wasn't on American soil or her territories, at any rate. Quote The deadliest anti-U.S. attack occurred in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on 12 May when suicide bombers in booby-trapped cars filled with explosives drove into the Vinnell, Jadewel and Al-Hamra housing compounds, killing nine U.S. citizens. Killed at the Vinnell compound were: Obaidah Yusuf Abdullah, Todd Michael Blair, Jason Eric Bentley, James Lee Carpenter II, Herman Diaz, Alex Jackson, Quincy Lee Knox, and Clifford J. Lawson. Mohammed Atef Al Kayyaly was killed at the Al-Hamra compound. You are aware that Saudi Arabia has traditionally been considered fertile ground for terrorism, right? Never mind that the US protects the royal family that enables it. Maybe if we stopped doing that, the violence might eventually diminish. QuoteAlan Beer and Bertin Joseph Tita were killed on 11 June in a bus bombing near Klal Center on Jaffa Road near Jerusalem. Howard Craig Goldstein was killed in a shooting attack near the West Bank settlement of Ofra on 20 June. Israel / Palestine conflict again. Not relevant. Quote Fred Bryant, a civilian contractor, was killed on 5 August in Tikrit, Iraq, when his car ran over an improvised explosive device. You are aware there is a war going on in Iraq. Am I supposed to feel sorry for the guy because he was paid better than the soldiers are? He knew the risks of working in a combat zone. It's not terrorism. Its war. Quote Three U.S. citizens were among the victims of a deadly truck bombing of the UN headquarters in Baghdad’s Canal Hotel on 19 August. They were Arthur Helton, Richard Hooper, and Martha Teas. UN Special Representative Sergio Vieira de Mello was also among the 23 fatalities. Iraq war. QuoteFive U.S. citizens were killed in Jerusalem on 19 August when a suicide bomber riding on a bus detonated explosives attached to his body. They were Goldy Zarkowsky, Eli Zarkowsky, Mordechai Reinitz, Yessucher Dov Reinitz, and Tehilla Nathansen. Fifteen other persons were killed and 140 wounded in the attack. Dr. David Applebaum and his daughter, Naava Applebaum, were killed on 9 September in a bombing at the Cafe Hillel in Jerusalem. Three U.S. citizens were killed on 15 October in the Gaza Strip as their U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv motorcade was struck by a roadside bomb. They were John Branchizio, Mark T. Parson, and John Martin Linde, Jr. All three were security contractors to the U.S. Embassy. Israel/Palestine Conflict. QuoteLt. Col. Charles H. Buehring was killed on 26 October in Baghdad during a rocket-propelled grenade attack on the Al-Rasheed Hotel. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul D. Wolfowitz was staying at the hotel at the time of the attack. Legitimate military target for any army not bound by the Geneva Convention. Not terrorism. QuoteTwo U.S. citizens, William Carlson and Christopher Glenn Mueller, were killed in an ambush by armed militants in Shkin, Afghanistan, on 27 October. Both were U.S. Government contract workers. Well paid civilians in a combat zone. They knew the risk. Well, you've not provided any supporting evidence relevant to the discussion at hand. How about some terrorism against America, on America's soil? That is what is relevant to this discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #128 August 27, 2005 These are ALL the terrorist attacks in 2003. Didn't want to be accused of only including some. Please point out the Abortion Clinic bombings since you claim to be more afraid of them. Claiming there haven't been any on American soil, so therefore you aren't as concerned in the face of the threat is at best laughable. Hopefully you understand the benefits of being proactive in our defenses instead of reactive. You do understand that don't you Chris? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #129 August 27, 2005 QuoteThese are ALL the terrorist attacks in 2003. Didn't want to be accused of only including some. Please point out the Abortion Clinic bombings since you claim to be more afraid of them. Claiming there haven't been any on American soil, so therefore you aren't as concerned in the face of the threat is at best laughable. Hopefully you understand the benefits of being proactive in our defenses instead of reactive. You do understand that don't you Chris? There's a link to anti-abortion terrorist attacks on a previous thread, search under my postings and you'll find it. I also posted many links on domestic terrorism, hate groups, the dangers of racial profiling etc. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #130 August 27, 2005 QuoteHard to run from your own words when they're posted for all to see. YOU choose to strictly define as racist anything that discriminates based upon race - including competent police work such as racial profiling. Therefore, when YOU choose to ignore the FACT that racial discrimination is an inseparable part of race-based Affirmative Action, you're merely proving that you have issues with facing FACTS. Your problem - deal with it however you like. Its only racism if you fail to take into account the centuries of slavery and other artificial handicaps the majority race in this country has had prior to the last forty years of civil rights. I am not so shortsided to ignore centuries because I've only seen a few decades first hand. QuoteIt should be no great shocker that, quoting myself again, when middle eastern terrorist groups known to employ middle eastern men to carry out terrorist attacks against Western targets, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to profile potential terrorists in and around such targets. Airliners having been a traditional target, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to racially profile in security screening there. Twice I've pointed out the error of this logic. Just read the other two posts. If you need further help with your reading comprehension, PM me. I will be happy to help you study. QuoteMost of us who are familiar with the news consider it res ipsa loquitor that the majority of terrorists attacking U.S. citizens, property, and allies are Middle Eastern fellows these days. Khobar Towers, USS COLE, IED's all over Iraq, Trade Center murders, homicide bombers in Israel, PAN AM bombing over Lockerbie, etc. Since several Islamic clerics/mullahs have said it's OK to do so, most of us expect these shitheads to try again. And here you are, crying racism about profiling gents who fit the description of these shitheads going onto planes - planes, by the way, have been targets of choice for these shitheads on several occasions; take a trip to NYC and see the results of one of them if you need further convincing Before 1905 the majority of people assumed time and space were absolute, never changing. We now know for certain these assumptions were incorrect. With research you would find your assumption, which you claim is shared by a majority of people, also, is incorrect. QuoteAttack FOX all you like by any means you desire - won't change the FACT that it's by far and away the mose fair and balanced news source on TV today. Sorry. Out of curiosity, were you able to keep a straight face when you typed that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #131 August 27, 2005 QuoteThese are ALL the terrorist attacks in 2003. Didn't want to be accused of only including some. Please point out the Abortion Clinic bombings since you claim to be more afraid of them. Notice how none of them took place in America. Let me help. Zero.QuoteClaiming there haven't been any on American soil, so therefore you aren't as concerned in the face of the threat is at best laughable. Hopefully you understand the benefits of being proactive in our defenses instead of reactive. You do understand that don't you Chris? Remember, our proactive foreign policy created Osama bin Laden. Are you saying you are in favor of Osama bin Laden? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #132 August 27, 2005 QuoteNotice how none of them took place in America. Let me help. Zero. As were there no abortion clinic bombings. How much security was involved to protect abortion clinics? I'm sure very little and yet there still were no bombing, so why are you more afraid of abortion clinic bombings? QuoteClaiming there haven't been any on American soil, so therefore you aren't as concerned in the face of the threat is at best laughable. Hopefully you understand the benefits of being proactive in our defenses instead of reactive. You do understand that don't you Chris? QuoteRemember, our proactive foreign policy created Osama bin Laden. Are you saying you are in favor of Osama bin Laden? Is there a point there? Are you saying that taking a pro-active approach to fighting terrorism will only cause more terrorist? You have some facts to back up another ridiculous claim? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #133 August 27, 2005 Quote Terrorist: n One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism. Terrorism: adj characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities The Terror scorecard: Muslim extremist attacks on american soil: 9/11, WTC bombing 1993, USS Cole, US embassy bombings (3) in 98. Please add to this list, but I make that 6 attacks. American Terrorist acts on American soil: Oklahoma, Olympic, Unabomber (23 bombs )(http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/serial-killers/unabomer/), over 213 arsons or bombings of abortion clinics, 10 fatal shootings of abortion doctors. Psst...GM...I think this is the quote to which AC is referring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #134 August 27, 2005 QuoteAs were there no abortion clinic bombings. How much security was involved to protect abortion clinics? I'm sure very little and yet there still were no bombing, so why are you more afraid of abortion clinic bombings? It would have helped if you had listed domestic terrorism. Is that why you withheld the source? How about giving up the link. It's only ethical. Quote Is there a point there? Are you saying that taking a pro-active approach to fighting terrorism will only cause more terrorist? You have some facts to back up another ridiculous claim? Yeah. Back in mid September, the eleventh IIRC, of 2001, we had some planes hijacked and flown into various prominent buildings. Perhaps you have heard of them. They were the twin towers of the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon. According to officil reports, Osama bin Laden was behind it. We trained him. Many have referred to 9/11 as a terrorist attack. Wouldn't you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #135 August 28, 2005 I listed all terrorism. There were no domestic terrorist attacks in 2003. The point you keep failing to understand is that there are over 50,000 Muslims out there who are associated with Al Qaeda and would participate in an attack on US soil. I would be much more concerned about them than I would an abortion clinic bomber, as would most people. I wouldn't be anywhere near an abortion clinic, but I do use planes, trains, cruise ships and occaisionally public transportation. The likelyhood of an attack there is greater because a terrorist using a WMD wans to kill us becausw we are Americans. An abortion clinic bomber wants to kill only those involved in recieving or performing abortions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #136 August 28, 2005 Still running from your own words I see. Assert that racial discrimination really isn't racial discrimination or that racism really isn't racism all you like - it's you running from facts. Run and hide all you like. Facts are the most stubborn of things - try as you might to ignore them, the don't go away. Fact it remains - race-based affirmative action is racial discriminatory in nature and therefore, by the very definition of racism as quoted by yourself, racist in nature. Deal with it however you like. There is no error in my logic for racially profiling at airports. You've offered no salient or believable counterpoint. Believe what you want - you'll still be incorrect and not facing facts. I can type or state that FOX is the most unbiased source of news out there with a straight face quite easily. Having dealt with the blatantly obvious left leaning bias of the networks and CNN for years, it's so refreshing to watch FOX. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #137 August 28, 2005 First things first Jist of the above link: A leaked FBI report from April 2005 basically updates Project Meggido's conclusions from 5 years previous, but since no one in the US noticed terrorism until 9/11 they dont mention Meggido at all, also it pisses all over the 'run scared from the darkie' theory practiced by ignorant and fearful xenophobes. Back to business: 50,000 out of 1.1 billion. What is that anyway? 0.00045% Ok, lets see: 1:220000 muslims may be a terrorist. Of course, racial profiling is so obviously a useful tool. Once again, there's a reason security protocols are developed by professionals and not knee jerk reactionaries and armchair quarter-backs. BTW Malkin's article is interesting only in that it defends itself by using the corruption in one state as evidence of a universal problem. GM, I dont know if you missed the previous conversations on domestic terrorism but you're quite happily missing the point by changing the rules of terrorism. The definition used in previous conversations was the one agreed upon by law enforcement, intelligence agencies and the military. It's also backed up by reams of documentation that very clearly illustrate the fact that, by all official accounting, there are indeed many acts of domestic terrorism every year in america by many different groups. Terrorism is terror. That you, and the population at large, remain largely ignorant of the facts is just indicative of the nature of the media. The complete stupidity of a 'it isnt going to be a white guy' continues to fly in the face of all available documentation and intelligence work that has been compiled by the FBI and law enforcement. Once again, there are copious links in previous threads on domestic terrorism that have cropped up in the last few months. These provide a very quick overview of the facts. Some useful ones to start: FBI's Meggido report on domestic terrorist groups, in preparation for Y2K, sobering stuff DHS sponsored DB of terrorism related sources, domestic and foreign Anti-Defamation list of domestic incidents Domestic resource for security readiness compiled by PPRI TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #138 August 28, 2005 QuoteWouldn't you prefer that we judge people on who they are rather than where they come from? Indeed. Children of wealthy families should not get preferential admission to Yale under a "legacy" program.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #139 August 28, 2005 Thanks, but my argument is I am more concerned about 50,000 people wanting to kill me than I am about a few abortion bombers wanting to kill people who have and perform abortions. Plain and simple. Makes no difference what % of Muslims are AQ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #140 August 28, 2005 QuoteI listed all terrorism. There were no domestic terrorist attacks in 2003. I see. Any particular reason you picked 2003? One year is hardly a representative sample for something that happens relatively rarely, don't you think? QuoteThe point you keep failing to understand is that there are over 50,000 Muslims out there who are associated with Al Qaeda and would participate in an attack on US soil. I would be much more concerned about them than I would an abortion clinic bomber, as would most people. I wouldn't be anywhere near an abortion clinic, but I do use planes, trains, cruise ships and occaisionally public transportation. The likelyhood of an attack there is greater because a terrorist using a WMD wans to kill us becausw we are Americans. An abortion clinic bomber wants to kill only those involved in recieving or performing abortions. I understand the point you are trying to make. I just don't believe it justifies racial profiling. Think of it this way. 50,000 people is less than 2/100 of 1% of the population. I do not find it at all hard to believe that such a small portion could be pissed off, frustrated or otherwise motivated enough to do something violent. Using race to profile potential threats is going to make it relatively easier for the other races to exploit holes in the system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #141 August 28, 2005 Ideally I'd agree with you, but I don't think the government is enforcing legacy admissions to Yale or any other school are they? If the school wants to use strange or distasteful policies, that is their choice, as long as they don't decide based on illegal criteria (though illegal is tough to define here since discrimination based on race is illegal but raced based admissions are not) Professor, wouldn't you agree there is a difference between a school choosing to use unpopular admissions versus the government requiring them to do so?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #142 August 29, 2005 QuoteIdeally I'd agree with you, but I don't think the government is enforcing legacy admissions to Yale or any other school are they? If the school wants to use strange or distasteful policies, that is their choice, as long as they don't decide based on illegal criteria (though illegal is tough to define here since discrimination based on race is illegal but raced based admissions are not) Professor, wouldn't you agree there is a difference between a school choosing to use unpopular admissions versus the government requiring them to do so? I find neither palatable. Yale quite happily accepts tens of $millions each year from the Federal Govt. (aka you and me) for various purposes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #143 August 29, 2005 QuoteI find neither palatable. Totally agree, nice analogy to affirmative action. Both are wrong and only institutionalized differently (one by federal law, one by stupid school policy). Do you consider making huge donations and actually paying for tuition the same as a legacy policy? I can see them being related but two separate things. That complicates the mix when you actually have to pay these expensive professors.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #144 August 29, 2005 Thread hijack Quote That complicates the mix when you actually have to pay these expensive professors.... Bah - you get the education that you pay for. The problem is all the overhead crap that you pay for as well due to all these programs for everything under the sun. I would much rather see the money currently being spent on affirmative action programs given to the teachers - maybe then there wouldn't be any need (whether real or perceived) for AA by the next generation... we could award the job to the person best qualified for the JOB rather than best qualified for the affirmative action program... We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
