Superb article from Michelle Malkin

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By your strict definition the policeman searching for a white kidnapping suspect driving a Chevy Nova who pulls over a white fellow driving such a Nova in lieu of a Hispanic gent driving an identical Nova is racist. Ludicrous by any means.

Read again. I've only offered one definition of racism in this thread. It did not mention Hispanics, whites or Novas. Please read my posts if you are going to respond.

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You are correct - racial profiling would have caught none of the bombers you mentioned. Because they have no common ethnicity, religion, modus operandus, cause, or even venue. Unlike Islamic terrorists. Your attempt to equate/compare the people from your list of miscreants to the Islamic terrorists is quite humorous.

Okay, I'll give you two differences. Race and religion. Which is exactly why profiling for Islamic Middle eastern men is totally and completely absurd. It doesn't catch anyone who does not fit that profile. American terrorists have the potential to be as deadly as Syrian terrorists. Your implication that they somehow pose a smaller threat to us is ludicrous, at best.

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So you would not search the 21 y/o Syrian more thoroughly than the grandma in the example I presented, eh? Thank God you're not in charge of TSA. In a situation when Islamic terrorists HAVE threatened to attack the United States, NOT paying more attention to those who fit the profile of such terrorists is simply inane.

You, or anyone else, has yet to provide a single shred of evidence that middle-eastern males pose a greter terrorist threat than anyone else. Sure, some have been terrorists, but not as many as the other races. Racist rhetoric is not evidence.

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Those decrying doing so because it's 'racial profiling' really need to get a clue. The fact that some of those same people support racial discrimination for things that are far more important in life than a five minute inconvenience at the airport, such as getting into a school, getting a job, getting a promotion, getting a scholarship - minor [sic] things like that, is disgusting.

First, one is, by definition racist. The other, by definition, is not. They are not the same thing. If you don't like affirmative action, contact your legislators.

Second many Americans, such as our forefathers, placed liberty far above safety. It is really sad that anyone be as scared as you appear to be of terrorism, but that is still no justification to suspend the civil rights of others.

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You bet I would and the Govt. did

At what time were all whites searched before they went into a federal building, as you assert?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Racism is only a factor in profiling.

There. I fixed it for you!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You bet I would and the Govt. did

At what time were all whites searched before they went into a federal building, as you assert?

The OKC bombers didn't enter a Federal Building. But if you were a white guy driving a Ryder Truck, you would have been stopped and questioned.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Racism is only a factor in profiling.

There. I fixed it for you!

Hard to have a discussion with someone who thinks anytime race is taken into consideration it's racism. Would you consider it racism if the profiling was being done by Arabs? How about Blacks, Hispanics or Asians?

[waltappel 1]

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So you'd profile white guys (but not arabs) trying to enter parks and federal buildings, then, just to be consistent.

That is already done--ask any BASE jumper.

Walt

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Hard to have a discussion with someone who thinks anytime race is taken into consideration it's racism.

It is equally difficult to discuss racism with people who are in denial with regards to the definition.

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Would you consider it racism if the profiling was being done by Arabs? How about Blacks, Hispanics or Asians?

Yes. Yes, yes and yes.

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Hard to have a discussion with someone who thinks anytime race is taken into consideration it's racism.

It is equally difficult to discuss racism with people who are in denial with regards to the definition.

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Would you consider it racism if the profiling was being done by Arabs? How about Blacks, Hispanics or Asians?

Yes. Yes, yes and yes.

So you think it is racism for an Arab to profile another Arab?
You think it's racism for a black person to profile another black? Jesse Jackson would disagree with you. Are you saying you better understand racism than Jesse jackson?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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So you think it is racism for an Arab to profile another Arab?
You think it's racism for a black person to profile another black? Jesse Jackson would disagree with you. Are you saying you better understand racism than Jesse jackson?

Profiling based on race is racism. It matters not who is doing the profiling, nor which is the targeted race.

Jesse Jackson is free to disagree with me. I do not take my lead from him. I prefer to gather facts and think for myself.

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So you think it is racism for an Arab to profile another Arab?
You think it's racism for a black person to profile another black? Jesse Jackson would disagree with you. Are you saying you better understand racism than Jesse jackson?

Profiling based on race is racism. It matters not who is doing the profiling, nor which is the targeted race.

Jesse Jackson is free to disagree with me. I do not take my lead from him. I prefer to gather facts and think for myself.

Well Jesse Jackson does disagree with you and I would bet most blacks would say he has a better understanding of racism than you.
Since we know most serial killers are white males, would you also consider it sexism to only profile white males when looking for a serial killer? Should we also profile black women to avoid any appearance of racism too?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Well Jesse Jackson does disagree with you and I would bet most blacks would say he has a better understanding of racism than you.

Believe it or not, I am not the least bit concerned about Jesse Jackson's opinion of my view of racism. I am curious, however, how you were able to get ahold of him on such short notice to find out whether or not he agrees with me. Was it a phone call, or email? You've certainly surprised me. I had no idea you two were so tight.

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Since we know most serial killers are white males, would you also consider it sexism to only profile white males when looking for a serial killer?

Now I'm not an FBI agent, but I the way I understood it was that serial killers tend to kill within their own race. So looking for a white guy because you have white victims is not the same as searching for a white guy because he is a serial killer.

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Believe it or not, I am not the least bit concerned about Jesse Jackson's opinion of my view of racism. I am curious, however, how you were able to get ahold of him on such short notice to find out whether or not he agrees with me. Was it a phone call, or email? You've certainly surprised me. I had no idea you two were so tight.

For someone who portends to have a better understanding of Racism than Jesse Jackson, you know very little about his views.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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For someone who portends to have a better understanding of Racism than Jesse Jackson, you know very little about his views.

Please read my posts before you respond to them! I never claimed to have a better understanding of racism than Jesse Jackson. Nor did I ever claim I knew anything about his views.

"On the question of racial discrimination, the Addis Ababa Conference taught, to those who will learn, this further lesson: That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned: That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained" -- H.I.M. Haile Selassie I, October 4, 1963, adressing the UN

I'm pretty sure He knew as much about racism as Jesse Jackson, and my views on the subject align with His quite well.

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For someone who portends to have a better understanding of Racism than Jesse Jackson, you know very little about his views.

Please read my posts before you respond to them! I never claimed to have a better understanding of racism than Jesse Jackson. Nor did I ever claim I knew anything about his views.

"On the question of racial discrimination, the Addis Ababa Conference taught, to those who will learn, this further lesson: That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned: That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained" -- H.I.M. Haile Selassie I, October 4, 1963, adressing the UN

I'm pretty sure He knew as much about racism as Jesse Jackson, and my views on the subject align with His quite well.

And that has exactly what to do with considering race when profiling? If you were a Border Patrol Agent in New Mexico, would you stop Whites, Blacks and Asians, or would you think your time would be better spent stopping Mexicans?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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And that has exactly what to do with considering race when profiling?

Let me add emphasis for you, to make it easier to comprehend. I'm not intentionally tring to confuse you.

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That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained

What is the point of stopping terrorism if not to promote lasting peace and international morality? You do prefer peace over violence, right?

I'm still waiting for the first shred of evidence that a terrorist is more likely to be of middle-eastern descent than any other race. The conspicuous lack of facts on the part of the racial profiling proponents is quite telling of their lack of objectivity.

[TheAnvil 0]

Read your posts yourself - quite helpful to read what one writes.

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Racism n. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism

I'm sorry if you do not like the word.

My Nova example is correct. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that would be your problem. Deal with it.

Let's look at your assertion that affirmative action is not racist by the definition quoted above. If race based affirmative action is not racist, then you could give us an example of a race-based affirmative action program that does not discriminate based on race. I'll quote you again so you don't forget:

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Racism n. Discrimination or prejudice based on race

If you choose to call racial profiling racist by that definition, then you have no choice but to call race-based affirmative action racist as well. Again - so very sorry if you don't like your definition. I prefer Merriam Webster's primary definition as the one you use is one that has evolved over the past few years. To each his own I suppose.

I myself choose not to ignore facts, but do so if you like. Fact it remains, race based affirmative action is, by your own definition, racist. If you can't see the difference between a brief inconvenience at the airport and not getting into a school, getting a job, getting a promotion, or something of that nature, then that's your problem. I have contacted my legislators, FYI. Amazing how democrats tend to flee when asked to defend their support of racial discrimination. Guess they don't like to admit what they support.

You again seek to equate the Islamic terrorists with McVeigh et al, which is absolutely ludicrous. Perhaps your not watching the news, but all of the homicide bombers in Israel, Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan, the 9/11 hijackers, the Lakawanna terror cell in NY, and the suspected terror cell in Lodi were all of middle eastern descent. If that fact is lost on you, then so be it. Nobody is saying all Middle Easterners are terrorists at all.

If a short blond man driving a red cavalier has kidnapped a child and I'm pulled over driving my red cavalier, I don't think I'd be screaming 'short discrimination' about the police. I'd be happy they were doing their job.

Hmmmm....Islamic terror groups are waging jihad against the west. The majority of the asswipes that carry out this jihad are Middle Eastern men. These men have used hijacking airliners with some frequency in the past. And here you are, stating that racially profiling passengers for extra scrutiny is unnecessary, calling it racist, while stating that racial discrimination for purposes of race-based affirmative action is not racist.

Give it up. Your argument holds no water.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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Yeah but, he's talking about the "Good Racism".

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And that has exactly what to do with considering race when profiling?

Let me add emphasis for you, to make it easier to comprehend. I'm not intentionally tring to confuse you.

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That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained

What is the point of stopping terrorism if not to promote lasting peace and international morality? You do prefer peace over violence, right?

I'm still waiting for the first shred of evidence that a terrorist is more likely to be of middle-eastern descent than any other race. The conspicuous lack of facts on the part of the racial profiling proponents is quite telling of their lack of objectivity.

It is you who is confused. We were talking about whether racial profiling works and now you've decided to go off on some "key to world peace" rant which has nothing to do with the subject. If you want to discuss your solutions to World Peace, start another thread. Until then, try to stay on topic instead of wandering around the world for a point.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Let's look at your assertion that affirmative action is not racist by the definition quoted above. If race based affirmative action is not racist, then you could give us an example of a race-based affirmative action program that does not discriminate based on race.

You're must be right. Not being allowed to discriminate against minorities because of their race is rascist. You should consider a job with FOX News with that kind of spin ability.

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You again seek to equate the Islamic terrorists with McVeigh et al, which is absolutely ludicrous.

ROFLMFAO

I'll ask again. Except race and religion, how are they different?

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Nobody is saying all Middle Easterners are terrorists at all.

The racial profiling proponents merely wish to treat them all as though they are. That is racism, no matter how you look at it. I can't believe there are so many racism apologists in this country.

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If a short blond man driving a red cavalier has kidnapped a child and I'm pulled over driving my red cavalier, I don't think I'd be screaming 'short discrimination' about the police. I'd be happy they were doing their job

Again, police profiling based on a known description is not racial profiling (or height profiling, in your example). It is competent police work. On the other hand, if it is assumed that the culprit was a short blonde because there was a kidnapping, that would be "height and hair color profiling." Surely you can see the huge, obvious difference.

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Hmmmm....Islamic terror groups are waging jihad against the west. The majority of the asswipes that carry out this jihad are Middle Eastern men. These men have used hijacking airliners with some frequency in the past. And here you are, stating that racially profiling passengers for extra scrutiny is unnecessary, calling it racist

I call it racist because it is. I'm still waiting for the first shred of evidence to support your allegation that middle eastern men pose the greatest threat to Americans. What? You still don't have any?

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Give it up. Your argument holds no water.

Like I said, provide a tiny bit of evidence to support your argument. Thus far you have provided zero. You asked for some non middle-eastern terrorists, I provided you a short list from many, easily disproving your trolling claims.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Until then, try to stay on topic instead of wandering around the world for a point.

Okay, if you'll try to provide a credible argument based on truth.

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Until then, try to stay on topic instead of wandering around the world for a point.

Okay, if you'll try to provide a credible argument based on truth.

I have, you just don't accept it, as I don't accept yours. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[TheAnvil 0]

Ahhhh...you all but state openly that without race-based affirmative action that minorities are at a disadvantage. May we infer that you believe in that minorities are inferior because of their race? I don't think that to be true, but if you do, that's your own choice. I'd like to work at FOX - fair and balanced, unlike CNN, CBS, ABC, & CBS.

I take it you don't want to face the fact that race-based affirmative action is racial discriminatory in nature, and therefore racist by the very definition you quoted. ROFLMFAO!!!!!

Nice to hear you appreciate competent police work. I maintain that when middle eastern terrorist groups known to employ middle eastern men to carry out terrorist attacks against Western targets, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to profile potential terrorists in and around such targets. Airliners having been a traditional target, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to racially profile in security screening there. Pretty much a no brainer.

Keep trying if you like. Your argument still holds no water.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I have, you just don't accept it

Would you be so kind as to provide a link where you showed how the majority of terrorist were Muslim or middle-eastern? I must have missed the support for your argument.

[waltappel 1]

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I have, you just don't accept it

Would you be so kind as to provide a link where you showed how the majority of terrorist were Muslim or middle-eastern? I must have missed the support for your argument.

This is not exactly what you are looking for, but it's still an interesting read.

Walt

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Ahhhh...you all but state openly that without race-based affirmative action that minorities are at a disadvantage.

If I had wanted or intended to say that I would have. Please don't put words into my mouth, and reply to the comments I have made, instead of the ones you already have preformulated answers for.

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May we infer that you believe in that minorities are inferior because of their race?

If you got that from my posts, I have no choice but to infer your reading comprehension skills leave significant room for improvement. I neither said nor implied any inferiority of any race with respect to another. In fact I have implied exactly the opposite.

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I maintain that when middle eastern terrorist groups known to employ middle eastern men to carry out terrorist attacks against Western targets, it's COMPETENT POLICE WORK to profile potential terrorists in and around such targets.

All I ask is for some evidence to support your assumption that middle-eastern men are more likely to pose a danger to citizens than any other group. With that, we could at least debate civil rights vs. safety, but you have yet to even reconcile your argument to show that it would not comprimise safety.

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Keep trying if you like. Your argument still holds no water

Umm. I'm still waiting for you to counter a single point. And waiting. And waiting.

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FOX - fair and balanced, unlike CNN, CBS, ABC, & CBS.

You just keep believing that. I bet it is all a big conspiracy to take over the media, isn't it. FOX is the last "fair and balanced" source of news available in the world, right?

See how "fair and balanced" this FOX News station was.