Mike111 0 #1 August 18, 2005 Following all the "coverup" of the shooting of John Charles De Menezez, Sir Ian Blair has denied these claims that itr was a coverup as false, and his force are now under intense investigation However, they made a mistake in the shooting, although and understandable one given the circumstances, But if someone has to take the blame, who should it be? The officer who fired those fatal shots, the commander of the operation Kratos Or Blair since he is in charge of the whole thing?? Or was the policy makers at fault? Was there a coverup? Or is it to early to tell? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #2 August 18, 2005 Only the people who participated in the coverup should be held responsible. Not someone at the top who knew nothing about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #3 August 18, 2005 but as Blair is leader, shouldn;t he take the rap? Isn;t that the responsibility of a leader? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #4 August 18, 2005 Quotebut as Blair is leader, shouldn;t he take the rap? Isn;t that the responsibility of a leader? It used to be, but not any more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #5 August 18, 2005 >but as Blair is leader, shouldn;t he take the rap? Isn;t that the responsibility of a leader? Depends. In the US and UK, that philosophy has largely fallen out of favor. It's no one's fault when something bad happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #6 August 19, 2005 Quotebut as Blair is leader, shouldn;t he take the rap? Isn;t that the responsibility of a leader? Would you apply the same reasoning to a leader in the USA?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #7 August 19, 2005 If he had done something terribly wrong, then maybe he should. Although getting the president to resign is helluva lot harder than to get the commissioner of the met to resign cos the President is at the top of power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #8 August 19, 2005 Well the IPCC say the Met "resisted" their involvement in the first couple of days of the investigation. I personally still don't know yet if there's anything wrong with that in itself. It's perfectly acceptable IMO for a police force to want to investigate a terrorist event without people getting under their feet... obviously the problem is they really should have known by Saturday that Menezes was not linked to terrorism (they'd said in the press he wasn't linked to the Tube bombings already) and the op should be turned over to the IPCC... why wasn't it? Were there still unanswered questions? Perhaps they thought he was linked to other terrorist cells? Or were they trying to get in the way of the IPCC? I don't know yet... it certainly requires further investigation... but I don't think we need to be slinging ropes over gallows just yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #9 August 19, 2005 Quotebut I don't think we need to be slinging ropes over gallows just yet. What he said. Let's wait to see what comes out of the IPCC investigation (which will no doubt take many weeks if not months). "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #10 August 19, 2005 QuoteOnly the people who participated in the coverup should be held responsible. Not someone at the top who knew nothing about it. Ian Blair (the man at the top) was reportedly the one who asked the home office to halt the investigation. Like MR2MK1 said we don't know his reasons yet, but if he was just attempting to sweep everything under the carpet then he should take the rap.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #11 August 19, 2005 I agree. Although i think i should have posted this after a decision was made, i did it a bit to early. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #12 August 19, 2005 Quotebut as Blair is leader, shouldn;t he take the rap? Isn;t that the responsibility of a leader? If he ordered a cover-up - absolutely. If he had no knowledge of it - absolutely not. If you get rid of all leaders who have something go wrong in their organizations committed by some underling, then there won't be any leaders left, and no one else willing to step up and take the job. Just because you're at the top of the org chart pyramid, doesn't mean you know everything that is going on under you. Just because something goes wrong on your watch, doesn't mean that you are responsible for it. Should Franklin Roosevelt have resigned because of Pearl Harbor? Should police chiefs resign every time one of their cops is involved in a bad shooting? Should NASA disband every time something goes wrong with a rocket launch? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #13 August 19, 2005 <> No, certainly not yet. He has not currently been found guilty of anything. There needs to be (and should be) a full public enquirey into the actions on that day (and those leading up to it). Reacting by Knee-jerk reaction to the every changing media flip-flop, is the wrong thing to do. Trial by media has become the norm in this country (UK) and is a national embarasment. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #14 August 19, 2005 Should Franklin Roosevelt have resigned because of Pearl Harbor? Should police chiefs resign every time one of their cops is involved in a bad shooting? Should NASA disband every time something goes wrong with a rocket launch? Quote Well that would depend on the circumstances. If it was his fault and he was responsible for it (im not referring to those examples) then yes, again depending on te scenario. But , IMHO, it does depend on how you view the role of the leader - some view it as a downside of the job that they should know what is going on all the time, and so should resign if necessary. others take the opposite, and as others stated above, it seems that blaming leaders as a trend has died off. But it does depend on circumstance though IMHO. (However, i certainly won't be disappointed if Blair does go because he is a pen pusher .) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #15 August 19, 2005 I wasn;t reacting in that respect, i only put forward suggesions to see what others thought. I never made a judgement. But yes, agreed, as i mentioned above that i posted it a bit to early. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #16 August 19, 2005 Good, right answer. As I suggest, it really is too early for anyone (except her in SC) to jump to conclusions. Is it a cover up? Not sure (but some people fucked up bad) and in a club like the police, they do tend to look after their own. Who's to blame? Only a full public enquiry is likely to find out. Blues.. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #17 August 19, 2005 QuoteIf he ordered a cover-up - absolutely. If he had no knowledge of it - absolutely not. I'll say it again. He did try to block the investigation. The question is not whether or not he was involved, he was. As others have already posted the question is more like whether his actions were intended to 'coverup' his departments mistakes or to safeguard ongoing investigations.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #18 August 20, 2005 i still got your bucket! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #19 August 20, 2005 Cheers mate .. just dont kick it (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #20 August 20, 2005 ohh... .... too late!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
