Idiots camped outside Bush's crawford ranch.

[billvon 3,118]

>Boy, I'm wondering if I had ever played baseball with you, you would
> have us all to believe we lost the game with the first strike out.

You'd lose the game the minute I ended up on your team! I suck at baseball. Now ice hockey . . .

>Once again, if you look like a wacko, dress like a wacko, and say
> wacky things around several thousand people, many of them not all
> but a large majority will simple wright you off as a wacko.

I think the best answer to this is an old anti-war song by Arlo Guthrie:

------------------------------------
And the only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is, the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.
---------------------------------------

So if just Cindy Sheehan protests, she's a wacko. If just some 'stink hippies' show up, it's a bunch of wackos.

But now other parents of fallen soldiers are joining. And other organizations are signing up. And before long it just may become a movement. And the right wing might (I said might) just have to get a better reason to ignore them than "they look funny" or "they smell."

[pajarito 0]

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But now other parents of fallen soldiers are joining. And other organizations are signing up. And before long it just may become a movement. And the right wing might (I said might) just have to get a better reason to ignore them than "they look funny" or "they smell."

--It's a volunteer force.
--Nobody's making them do anything
--If you don't agree with what the current administration is doing with reference to the war (or for whatever other reason you have), don't join

[ALERT] - DANGEROUS JOB - MIGHT DIE - [/ALERT]

Otherwise, STFU and move out. I'm so sick of listening to these whining crybabies.

[billvon 3,118]

>Otherwise, STFU and move out. I'm so sick of listening to these
>whining crybabies.

You are calling the parents of fallen soldiers whining crybabies?

I was thinking about this issue this morning. Would you really walk up to two parents protesting outside a building, perhaps with a sign that says "remember our son," and call them a bunch of whining crybabies? Heck, would _any_ right winger here, if they saw Cindy Sheehan in the street, walk up to her and call her a grief pimp, or a nutcase, or a media whore?

I suspect you wouldn't. Not because you're a democrat or a republican, but because you're a human being, and you would probably look at them and see a couple who lost her son (a son who was doing something selfless) rather than a political target. And the part of you that feels compassion over the part that motivates your politics would win out. I suspect you'd probably even feel sympathy for them - even if they did disagree with your politics.

And would you run home, get on the computer, and start typing furiously about what unamerican whining crybabies they were, that they should shut up or get out? Maybe, but again, I suspect you wouldn't. I think that meeting these people, and realizing they are human beings and not pawns in a political game, would make a difference to you.

I have a few friends who have lost family members and friends in the Iraq war. It's hard to talk to them and not feel bad for what they have been going through, and they have gotten an amazing (and gratifying) amount of support. At least one of them is very strongly against the war, and is quite outspoken about it. If you were to meet her, I suspect you'd feel the same sympathy, and have the same desire to help, that most people feel when they meet her. Again, not because she's right or wrong, but because you are more human than anything else.

[pajarito 0]

I've served, in combat, and have lost friends as well as others wounded. I would not walk up to their parents and degrade them for their grief even though their sons volunteered for what they did (as did I). If they did what Cindy Sheehan is doing, however, I'd question their motives. I guess I just honor my fallen friends in a different way. My way has nothing to do with political partisanship.

[rehmwa 2]

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>the whole damn town is only 10 x 10 and not even all of that is used!

There are these funny diagonal streets and big 'squares' with like seven roads leading into them.

and lots of one ways and forced paths, and special events will close down major feeders, don't forget the river, turning circles, bridges, narrow metro roads, no places to ever do a u-turn it's pretty restrictive, cross the wrong bridge combined with a special event, and you might have to take a couple hours to find an alternate path back.

The Phoenix metro is what I would say is really laid out in a grid like Quade mentioned and easy to get around. DC is nothing so easy. And it's only a bit more than half of 10x10 also....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 4]

I guess it all depends on what you're already used to dealing with, but I really think DC is a piece of cake compared to something like LA.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

Anything can be difficult when you make it a subjective discussion. I think DC is pretty difficult when you compare it to getting around Sac City, IA. (3000 people, one stop light). Easy enough compared to Tokyo (I don't read Japanese, so the signs are tough).

I've never driven in LA, have to take your word for it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tso-d_chris 0]

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If they did what Cindy Sheehan is doing, however, I'd question their motives. I guess I just honor my fallen friends in a different way.

Is a peaceful demonstration really that bad? Would you prefer something more violent to make the point?

[pajarito 0]

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Is a peaceful demonstration really that bad? Would you prefer something more violent to make the point?

No, but I'd prefer it really be about her son and not all the extreme left wing B.S.

[tso-d_chris 0]

Quote

No, but I'd prefer it really be about her son and not all the extreme left wing B.S.

If you are referring to it as "extreme left wing B.S." you are obviously missing the point of using a peaceful public demonstration. If they can't get you to give an honest attempt to view things from their perspective with peaceful methods, what is the next step? What actions are necessary to gain the attention of the powers tht be?

Her lost son is her motivation, not her cause. Her cause is much more selfless, her cause is for all the sons and daughters over there.

[pajarito 0]

I think it's pretty obvious that she's being used as a poster girl for the liberal activists who are supporting her now. Maybe her intentions were sincere (maybe they still are) but it's gone way beyond that now. She has every right to do what she's doing. However, her views are extreme and so are those of the activists with her. I think the American public sees right through all this garbage. Sadly, however, I think it brings dishonor to those still fighting and those who have fallen.

Added: She has plenty of support .

"Together with other liberal activist groups True Majority and Democracy for America, MoveOn.org said it plans to hold more than 1,400 candlelight vigils across the country Wednesday night to show support for Sheehan"

[billvon 3,118]

>I think it's pretty obvious that she's being used as a poster girl
>for the liberal activists who are supporting her now.

Will you condemn the right wing activists at Freerepublic.com as well, a group that is using her son's death to get their pro-Bush message across?

[pajarito 0]

Quote

>I think it's pretty obvious that she's being used as a poster girl
>for the liberal activists who are supporting her now.

Will you condemn the right wing activists at Freerepublic.com as well, a group that is using her son's death to get their pro-Bush message across?

Who started it Bill?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>I think it's pretty obvious that she's being used as a poster girl
>for the liberal activists who are supporting her now.

Will you condemn the right wing activists at Freerepublic.com as well, a group that is using her son's death to get their pro-Bush message across?

If you condemn both, I will. Heck, I will anyway, it's wrong regardless of the politics.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tcnelson 1]

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If the stink hippies encourage even one American out of his Nazi trance into a thinking state, then they have done some good....

Peace~
linz

do I get forked again?

ahhhh, the old nazi trance/thinking state argument...

roflmao

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[starkmtn 0]

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Quote

Or perhaps a change in policies so fewer sons die in the future.

One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.

No, one clueless man gets to do that.

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[billvon 3,118]

>Who started it Bill?

Wow. That's the level of debate we've reached? "She kicked me!" "He started it!" "Did not!" "MOM!"

As I recently spent a week with my nieces and nephews doing that at every opportunity, I'll leave you to your own opinion on this.

[starkmtn 0]

Quote

Dave,
As I posted in my original post, put youself in the shoes of the peoples yards these people are crapping in. Sit in traffic trying to get home to your kids.

There is a way to do this without violating W's innocent neighbors.

Her son getting killed does not give her the right to violate other peoples lives. HER SON VOLUNTEERED.

--

Is it truly volunteering if you're poor and can't get enough money for college without taking the Army up on their offer to trade you college money in exchange for 8 years of your life and the freedom to say "this isn't right?" Is it truly volunteering if you can actually sign up when you're 17 years old? You can't DRINK for 4 more years but damn you can sure sign away your life! Is it truly volunteering when they can come into school and give you a mug and a pen and a keychain and talk to you about how great it is to make a man out of yourself? Is it truly volunteering when the proportion of minorities in the armed services is significantly higher than in the general population? What, do black people just like to play with guns more than whites? Or is there some sort of systemic pressure that causes some to be more likely to "volunteer" than others?

This mother is angry about an entire system that coaxes young men (and women) into the armed services with glossy ads and cute phrases like "army of one" and "a few good men," sends their propaganda to _eleven-year-olds_, draws overwhelmingly from the ranks of the poor and minorities, and then sends these people into battles that do not serve our country well at all.

Yes, you're right, he did make the decision. But if it's a poorly informed decision, and is engineered to be that way, can you not understand her anger?

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[JohnRich 4]

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One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.

No, one clueless man gets to do that.

That so-called "clueless man" was elected by the majority of the people. That's a long way from a decision by just one man.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Is it truly volunteering if you're poor and can't get enough money for college without taking the Army up on their offer to trade you college money in exchange for 8 years of your life

Yes, it is. They don't have to join. There are other avenues for funding a college education, like hard work and night school.

Quote

Is it truly volunteering if you can actually sign up when you're 17 years old? You can't DRINK for 4 more years but damn you can sure sign away your life!

Yes, it is. If you have a problem with the liquor laws, ask your Congressmen to change them. If you have a problem with the minimum enlistment age, ditto. But those things have nothing to do with volunteering.

Quote

Is it truly volunteering when they can come into school and talk to you about how great it is to make a man out of yourself?

Yes, it is. They have freedom of choice, and should also have freedom of information.

Quote

Is it truly volunteering when the proportion of minorities in the armed services is significantly higher than in the general population?

Yes, it is. Do you want us to turn away all black enlistees who exceed 13% of the total? I suppose then you would cry about discrimination. Or perhaps you would prefer that we have a white-only draft to balance things out. But then that would violate your complaints about volunteerism. You are so confusing me!

Your comments demean everyone who has proudly volunteered and served in the Armed Forces.

[kallend 2,148]

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Quote

Quote

One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.

No, one clueless man gets to do that.

That so-called "clueless man" was elected by the majority of the people. That's a long way from a decision by just one man.

Not true. He would have needed around 145 million votes to get a majority of the people. A large majority of the people did not vote for him.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Not true. He would have needed around 145 million votes to get a majority of the people. A large majority of the people did not vote for him.

True enough. Need to rephrase that to 'majority of the people that count.' IOW, the voting public.

[crwtom 0]

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One grieving woman does not get to set American foreign policy.

No, one clueless man gets to do that.

That so-called "clueless man" was elected by the majority of the people. That's a long way from a decision by just one man.

Recent polls say that the American public thinks by a 2:1 ration that
the Iraq war is a lousy idea -or at least the way this admin is going
about it.

Even if you give generous margins of error or wait "for better
days" this isn't goint to turn around the present "majority".

There is huge difference between deciding on a policy and voting
for some person. One is more related to actual thinking about a
problem, the other more to general "sympathies".

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

I guess it all depends on what you're already used to dealing with, but I really think DC is a piece of cake compared to something like LA.

Well, then why did I always find myself entering West Virginia on the Belt Way when all I wanted to was to get back into D.C.?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Duckwater 0]

Man.....I was right!

www.stinkhippie.com

--