Gravitymaster 0 #51 August 17, 2005 QuoteFunny headline today in the NYT: LEADERS IN IRAQ EXTEND DEADLINE ON CONSTITUTION ----------------- Vast Differences Remain ----------------- One Week to Solve Issues Over Islam, Oil Wealth and Political Power Well, thank goodness they've got the big issues out of the way and are just dealing with the small details! Perhaps you should change the title of the thread to Neener..Neener..Neener.. we're better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #52 August 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteWe are not only in a declared war against terrorism, but also an undeclared war against Communist China In my humble experience (spending about 2 weeks/month in China), the PRC has little to do with communism. China has developped its own kind of capitalism, which may turn out to be (or may not) Capitalism of the 21st century. Also, in my experience, Chinese are very fond to Americans. The only thing they do not understand is the US support of Taiwan. That does puzzle them to great extends... And, although that should be another thread in istelf, I am amazed how some people keep getting confused between the notions of democracy and freedom. Two totally different things. China is not a Democracy (and probably will never be as we know democracy), but in a way, people have more freedom than most people would think. Just my perspective... Yeah, I agree. China had to change it's economic structure to a more Capitalistic economy or risk forever being 50 years behind the rest of the modern world in technology. Funding Clintons run for office and recieving missle technology in return which was then transferred to PRNK, Iran etc. was a brilliant move. The current undeclared Cold War with China has very much to do with Chinas eventual invasion of Taiwan and what the US response will be. Hell, one of China's Generals has already stated that war with the UC is inevitable. Why is it so hard for people to see that Chans has a vested interest in keeping the US Military tied up in Iraq and perhaps an entry into Iran? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #53 August 17, 2005 GM, one General's opinion should not be taken as gospel. Much like Mc Arthur's vision was somewhat not the same as the then POTUS. China has a vested interest in keeping minorities quiet. Its make up is much like Russia. Bunch of active groups, which, culturaly, have not much in common. Supporting any kind of terrorism would be suicidal for China. But the way they look at it, the US supporting Taiwan is much like the West supporting Saddam when he was fignting againt Iran (hence Khomeini). Supporting Chang was in no way making a stance for freedom. I myself believe that Taiwan is irrelevant to the Chinese and the US government. Just another bargaining chip (much like North Korea). The true issue is the battle on the economic front. Quite interesting, I would say... But seeing millions of Chinese having access to the internet, cell phones (much nicer models than what you find in the US I may add), etc... leads me to think that they're quite well informed, and therefore able to somewhat make decisions on their own. We'll see what happens... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #54 August 17, 2005 QuoteIran, Iraq, Syria and Libya have supported terrorists in the past. Iran and Iraq have paid suicide bombers in the past. Libya funded terrorism in the past and claims to have halted this practice. (see this nifty CIA link http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ly.html) I was talking about the actual times, not the past. But i will concede it was not clear on my post Quoteholy 1985 batman. Just curious... when did the U.S. gov't support the IRA. Don't you think that would have strained UK-US relations a tad? The U.S did support IRA. And i forgot to add Osama Bin Laden which was a handy terrorist against the soviets before it turned against its master. Kallend answered the IRA question better than i could. Quote I think there is a coherent thought lurking in that chunk of text, but it is so disjointed I have to wonder if English is your primary language? No, it is not. I can usually express my opinions much better in spanish. What part of the chunk of text was not clear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #55 August 17, 2005 QuoteThe current undeclared Cold War with China has very much to do with Chinas eventual invasion of Taiwan and what the US response will be. Hell, one of China's Generals has already stated that war with the UC is inevitable. Why is it so hard for people to see that Chans has a vested interest in keeping the US Military tied up in Iraq and perhaps an entry into Iran? It makes life a little easier for them, but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't make any difference. All China has to do to break the US is stop supplying WalMart. All the posturing is nice, but I think it is pretty obivous that China already has you by the balls...As you call it Cold War II has been fought and lost already. I suggest starting to learn Mandarin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #56 August 17, 2005 QuoteIn many respects, American policy on Communist China suffers from a serious disconnect. This is due to the fact that many policymakers see Communist China from a purely economic perspective, focusing not on its weapons sales, its saber-rattling against its neighbors, or its unstinting support of Stalinist, terrorist North Korea, but instead on its façade of “reform” and its voracious desire for foreign capital. This has clouded what should be very clear – that Communist China is a danger to America’s interests and American security. This focuses too much on Cold War 1. We beat the Russians with two things - a strong and nearly invisible nuclear submarine fleet (lesser other military buildup also but the subs were key) that kept them on their heels spending all their income on military buildup. That allowed our economy to crush their economy and end the cold war. They starved their own people while building titanium hulls, etc. So what's different today: military - huge scale conflicts aren't the key focus in today's world, it little tactical conflicts like Iraq, etc and it shows that guerilla type fighting is a long expensive drawn out affair regardless of which side is overwhelmingly superior. This is cheaper than the big fight scenario the Soviets broke their back preparing for. Further, the US is so fractured in belief systems and nationality that support of ANY conflict, righteous or not, will be a mess at home - in other words, patience will beat this country before bombs or terrorist acts, etc. The US needs to stop trying to occupy, but strike hard and fast and then get out. No rebuilding, just a hard warning and then go home. Like a dog biting and then stepping back to see if you continue to harass him. economy - even if we could get the Chinese defending on the Russian model (they can just finance defense to a normal level rather than 'try to keep up'), they have a very strong economy potential and could keep up or even win. So if we don't learn our lesson, we might find our roles reversed from the first cold war. So China is doing the right thing - build it's economy. But the US is doing the right thing also, watching how we can build on that economy to keep from getting outstripped. This doesn't have to be defensive, it can also be offensive. Militarily, we need to continue to improve weapons system, as we have, to be more powerful but more tactical so that defensive strikes can be warnings that we can be surgical, not just massive destructive potential geared toward all out war. edit: that and have a backup supplier for WalMart ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #57 August 17, 2005 I'd love to know why so many people think military war with China is inevitable? The China of Chairman Mao and the Korean war is long gone. Since Nixon's visit and stance in the '70's, Chinese tend to regard the US as a "friendly" country. Does the Chinese government play games? Definitely. So does the US. It's part of geopolitical wrestling. The US has so much capital invested in China, that the 2 countries are now tightly interlinked, at least economically. I thought the concept of "Red China" had died with Thurmond. I guess he had enough offsprings scattered around to keep the myth alive... (Rehmwa, not specifically geared at you) "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #58 August 17, 2005 Quote(Rehmwa, not specifically geared at you) I agree with you on this one. And I think "mutual economic interdependence" is a much better policy than "mutually assured destruction". That's my point in the post. It'll keep Walmart open too. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #59 August 17, 2005 QuoteIraq has a proven track record of chemical weapons usage. Ask a Kurd if you're confused. They "did it to save lives." The United States of America has a proven track record of nuclear weapons usage. Ask the Japanese if you're confused. How about judging morality against a set scale? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #60 August 17, 2005 Maybe everyone missed it, but reported yesterday on CNN (Coverup News Network), Iraq oil production is up to 90% of what it was pre-war. Aprox 1.9 million barrels/day. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #61 August 17, 2005 QuoteI suggest starting to learn Mandarin. If for no other reason than to access the additional features (unavailable in English) of the software already installed on your computer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
opurt 0 #62 August 18, 2005 Quote We already have a very real bloodstain. The trick is to stop the bleeding as best as we can. And realizing that we screwed up bigtime is the first step in trying to fix the screwup. The "pretend everything is great" strategy failed pretty miserably. Barry McCaffrey, a decorated soldier and Clinton's Drug Czar visited Iraq on a fact finding mission and wrote a very interesting memo to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about the situation there, dated 18 July 2005 (PDF document). Being a military man with Democratic leanings seems to add credibility to his observations. The situation right now is at a crossroads, it seems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #63 August 18, 2005 Agreed. And it is with realizations such as his (i.e. that in many ways this is _worse_ than Vietnam, and that the worst days are yet to come) that are important to understand NOW. Troops coming home? Troop rotations are going to get longer as the situation gets worse. We should be preparing our troops for that now, not telling them happy stories about how we're "turning the corner" and "the insurgency is on its last legs." We should be working on recruitment here in a very big way to prepare for the days ahead. Heck, we should be instituting a draft if that's what it's going to take to maintain troop levels without working our current troops to death. I'm glad people like him are coming back with reports like this. You can only mislead people for so long before they stop believing anything you say - and if poll results are any indication we are just about there now. Some honesty will go a long way towards building some trust back, both with the american people and with our armed forces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #64 August 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteIraq has a proven track record of chemical weapons usage. Ask a Kurd if you're confused. They "did it to save lives." The United States of America has a proven track record of nuclear weapons usage. Ask the Japanese if you're confused. How about judging morality against a set scale? t We also read that the US was prepared to use chemical weapons if we had to attack mainland Japan,to save american lives. Now we goy a bunch of that 60+ yr old crap thats a PIA & $$$$ to destroy. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #65 August 18, 2005 QuoteMaybe everyone missed it, but reported yesterday on CNN (Coverup News Network), Iraq oil production is up to 90% of what it was pre-war. Aprox 1.9 million barrels/day. Oooh, only 29 months after the US went in to fix up the country it's only down 10% from before.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #66 August 19, 2005 QuoteOooh, only 29 months after the US went in to fix up the country it's only down 10% from before. yup, thankfully CNN is doing everything in their power (together with all the left media) to cover up that outstanding bit of good news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #67 August 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteOooh, only 29 months after the US went in to fix up the country it's only down 10% from before. yup, thankfully CNN is doing everything in their power (together with all the left media) to cover up that outstanding bit of good news[//b]. Wow! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #68 August 20, 2005 I guess you missed the sarcasm.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #69 August 20, 2005 QuoteI guess you missed the sarcasm.... Give him a break. He's French, you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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