Trae 1 #1 August 15, 2005 Warning enough is enough ET alien rave. Does anyone else feel the need for an alien forum or is it just me? Whenever I try to discuss real ETalien thought and feelings why do most people clam up? What are they trying to hide? What are you afraid of? Being put away in the funny farm for talking about ET's? You treat some-one like they're crazy and they'll act crazy! ......sometimes .. I estimate about 1 in a 100 people are capable of a good alien discussion. I've got a FEELING that about 1 out of every 100 of these talkative types ARE actual aliens. Why do people automatically think there is something wrong with people who discuss aliens when I know that these funny little fellows are amongst us. Live in the country and you get to see a lot of unexplained occurances. How do you explain the immense changes in the last 100 years or so compared to the rest of history. It was a fluke was it? Humans just seem to think yo've been smokin' too much peace pipe or indulging in the wrong chemicals. Skydivers are very interesting to aliens(i don't mean illegal aliens ...) and we can teach them a thing or two about having a real good time with bugger all high tech at our disposal. With access to their tech and our sense of fun some very very cool stuff becomes poss ..if only in our dreams for now. Non-polluting technology has been suppressed & smothered again and again by current governments who are now obviuosly chasing their tales in their small minded efforts to squeeze as much $$$$ from the oil and coal industries as possible . I say leave the black sticky stuff in the ground and get on with the future (hydrogen like the sun dummies) where all the bad stuff can take a back seat and let the little aliens show us the way . Without ET's help we'll be gasping on oil fumes for another 100years at least. Of course then magically hydrogen technology will appear just as we run out of oil...surprise surprise ..who'll be selling ? let me guess?.... der oil companies???????' Supressed technology?? why oh why do we let the oil industry keep shafting us every day? The answer of course is that the dollar freaks still run this planet with an explosively iron fist killing anything that gets in its way. Come on you guys you're wrecking it for all of us just for the sake of a few quadrillion measly dollars. Some lucky people are already filling their cars fuel tanks on liquid hydrogen but for the rest of us it's cough cough ...wipe off the black residue. The promises made to me as a child by the elders of this society have not been kept. Instead I've got to see these same adults being controlled by war, alchohol , drougs and poison. This is the same trick that was pulled on the natives in most countries around the world when the European population explosion changed the world some centuries ago. ie fill em up with white-man stuff so they'll be as stupid as the rest of 'em. Does any-one who's read this far know which state the hydrogen bowsers are located in? I would very much like to move to that future present that already exists for some...it's just they're very good at keeping secrets from the rest of us. Pick me for that load past the sky. angelic] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #2 August 15, 2005 There are no aliens. Move along. Nothing to see here. Move along. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #3 August 15, 2005 ha - how do you explain Jacko then??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #4 August 15, 2005 Quoteha - how do you explain Jacko then???Quote A complete fruitcake who should be put IN space rather than come from it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #5 August 15, 2005 QuoteThere are no aliens. Move along. Nothing to see here. Move along. There most certainly are aliens, the universe is just too vast for there not to be. Of course that doesn't mean that I think they are, or ever will be, 'down here' but they are definitely 'out there'. Still didn't understand a word of the first post though.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites speedy 0 #6 August 15, 2005 The fact that there is no irrefutable proof that aliens exist and have visited this planet proves something very profound. It proves that we will never leave this rock to colonize new worlds. As was pointed out, the universe is simpley too big for aliens not to exist. They must be out there and not just one or two alien races, there must be millions of them. So why have we not seen any aliens? The answer is because they cannot get here. The universe should be full of aliens zipping back and forth, but it is not. This can only mean that Einstein was correct, travel faster than light is not possible and there are no short cuts. We are stuck on this rock we called earth and always will be. Apart from the brief escapes from 14000ft Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #7 August 15, 2005 I've always wondered where the concept of aliens helping us with our problems stemmed from. Star Trek? What's the chance that our saviors are going to be bald ridge headed bipedal beings that know english? Based on the Visitors' concentration of activity, I will not believe in aliens until the "first contact" speaks english. . .with a Southern or West Virginian drawl._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trae 1 #8 August 16, 2005 Some-one just explained it all to me after I showed off my ignorance. WE ARE THE ALIENS and we're totally lost in space. Planet earth is our space ship/hive and we've all gone completely mad. MMMmmm ..., preferred being ignorant. inreply to "There are no aliens. Move along. Nothing to see here. Move along. ' &^%$ing alien gate keepers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #9 August 16, 2005 QuoteMMMmmm ..., preferred being ignorant. No worries--I've got enough ignorance to share with everyone (and often do!). Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trae 1 #10 August 16, 2005 I repeat somewhat ...I heard there were liquid hydrogen bowsers in the USA in a high- tech silicon- think- tank type valley. Do any viewers use liquid hydrogen in their cars? The rest of this was edited cause I'm yet to find the correct forum for serious alien technology access. apparently ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trae 1 #11 August 16, 2005 Anyone who doesn't believe in aliens hasn't sat up late around a fire in a remote region and looked up.. Some of the visitors you'll get are NOT human.or like any terrestrials I've seen so far. Driving along late at night where you don't even see a light or other vehichle for hours you get to see some funny things. Cute little purple dinosaurs & blue eyed aliens turning into cows are just not from around here. (as far as I know no-one has lsd'd the water supply ) Multiple sightings of aircraft that just can't move like that also get convincing over time. A while ago I saw on the late news a report of a formation a extremely fast flying objects which where filmed passing over one coastline and then a minute ot two later filmed passing over the other side of the continent. (not satelites) They showed the footage .The news reader looked like she was wetting herself with excitement. next day nothing to report ..zero info. Keep us stupid= keeping us under control.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #12 August 16, 2005 QuoteDoes anyone else feel the need for an alien forum or is it just me?I can think of some people I'd like to banish to an Alien forum . Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trae 1 #13 August 16, 2005 If you put in the right request to the right people anything is possible. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #14 August 16, 2005 There most certainly are aliens, the universe is just too vast for there not to be*** that is faulty logic. b/c the universe is vast doesn't mean, therefore, that there are_certainly_aliens out there. A vast universe only means just that - the universe is vast. Anything beyond that is just inference and speculation. What is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. Quit putting forth HOPE or wishful thinking as FACT. They aren't the same. There is life on THIS planet, only b/c the conditions are right for it. We don't KNOW that conditions are right on any other planet for life to exist. IMO, chances are GOOD that conditions are right, given the said vastness, based on mere probabilities, but that is far from being fact. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #15 August 16, 2005 I know what you mean by remote regions. I came from the southern new mexico desert. On a moonless night, you swear all those stars brighten up the sky as much as a full moon does. Thing is, the DOD, lockheed, mcdonald douglass/boeing has some very weird exotic machines out in the new mexico and nevada arizona deserts. One thing about these places though, a medium sized bat that flys directly overhead of you at about fifteen feet not making noise looks like a very huge shadowy thing flying from one point of the sky to the other end thousands of feet up thus requiring extreme speeds and maneuvers. No point of reference to judge distance. If you have a little light source such as a campfire, you will see a dull illuminated object wavering, doing "maneuvers that defy physics ". It's just Count Chocula hanging out. Just out of curiousity, where are you going with the hydrogen stuff in a valley?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlexCrowley 0 #16 August 16, 2005 QuoteThere most certainly are aliens, the universe is just too vast for there not to be Yes, yes, OUT THERE. Not here, nope never. Move along. Look OUT THERE. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #17 August 16, 2005 Quotethat is faulty logic. b/c the universe is vast doesn't mean, therefore, that there are_certainly_aliens out there. A vast universe only means just that - the universe is vast. Anything beyond that is just inference and speculation. What is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. You are right, I have no proof that life exists outside of this planet. However, look at this image. The Hubble Ultra Deep Field. a picture of a tiny region of space that contains a thousand galaxies, not stars, galaxies. The ones at the very back of the image existed billions of years ago. So we have a combination of three things, a universe that contains more stars and planets in a single degree of sky than we could ever comprehend, a phenomenal amount of time, and proof that life is possible (us). How anyone could seriously consider this and not conclude that alien life is as near certain as it is possible to get is beyond me. Will we ever find it, who knows, maybe not. There is a lot of sky to look at and whatever is out there is going to be a long way away.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #18 August 16, 2005 I do believe it is possoible for aliens to exist when you think of the vasness of the universe. what i find hard to belive is that our societies are run by religeous dickhead who can't take thier head out of the sand. and look past our planet(that was so obviously built just for us to take advantage of (NOT) why wouldn't aliens o0f some form or another exist?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #19 August 16, 2005 QuoteWhat is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. Quit putting forth HOPE or wishful thinking as FACT. They aren't the same. Just re-read your reply and had to comment on this. Coming from a religious person (which I believe you are?) that is fucking hilarious. Belief in God is the ultimate in wishful thinking, the entire edifice of religion is hope that death isn't the end. Extra Terrestrial life is both far more logical and far more likely than a divine being. Oh and by the way, CAPITALISING every other WORD doesn't give your opinion any more weight, it just makes it more annoying.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #20 August 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. Quit putting forth HOPE or wishful thinking as FACT. They aren't the same. Just re-read your reply and had to comment on this. Coming from a religious person (which I believe you are?) that is fucking hilarious. Belief in God is the ultimate in wishful thinking, the entire edifice of religion is hope that death isn't the end. Extra Terrestrial life is both far more logical and far more likely than a divine being. Oh and by the way, CAPITALISING every other WORD doesn't give your opinion any more weight, it just makes it more annoying. My belief in God has little bearing on this argument. But thanks for the ad hominem remarks. VERY grown up of you. And JUST to further annoy you, I've decided to CAPITALIZE some MORE words for you. BTW, why is my belief in God any more wishful thinking than your belief of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #21 August 17, 2005 QuoteMy belief in God has little bearing on this argument. But thanks for the ad hominem remarks. I know it doesn't, I just didn't like the hostile tone of your first reply. Anyway, like I said, my belief in extra terrestrial life (I never said intelligent) is based on 3 observations, it is possible for life to develop in the right conditions, there is an unimaginably huge number of stars out there that could have the right conditions and there has been a huge amount of time available for life to develop in these places. Compare that with the possible existence of a divinity which no one has ever observed, no one knows what it is or where it comes from and which cannot be described by the laws with which we describe our universe, which one sounds more likely? And that is before we get into the origins of gods as explanations for natural phenomena and tools for rationalising death as something other than the end. On the other hand where is the advantage to be had in believing in aliens, where is the wish in the wishful thinking? They are just there, it does not benefit or inconvenience us in any way. Now, I hope that one day we will pick up signals from an alien civilisation but I'm not holding my breath and I certainly don't think any real communication will ever be possible. Like I said before the distances and areas involved are just so vast.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #22 August 17, 2005 I know it doesn't, I just didn't like the hostile tone of your first reply. Quote gee, sorry. so you meet what you perceived as hostility w/ hostility. nice of you. existence of a divinity which no one has ever observed*** no, that you BELIEVE no one has ever observed. I see Him every day. I see Him in my kids, in my wife, in creation, in Mass, in the Eucharist. It's not just a psychological manifestation. It's a tangible, experiential reality that billions of humans experience everyday. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #23 August 17, 2005 QuoteJust re-read your reply and had to comment on this. Coming from a religious person (which I believe you are?) that is fucking hilarious. Belief in God is the ultimate in wishful thinking, the entire edifice of religion is hope that death isn't the end. Extra Terrestrial life is both far more logical and far more likely than a divine being. I don't think sinker was hostile, just commenting on there being no proof to alien life. I hope there is other life and think it likely, but the odds aren't as vast as many think - there've been calculations based on (albeit a narrow) sets of requirements for life to exist and the probabilities of all of them existing simultaneously on a single planet. It indicates that life would "likely" exist, but be sparse. I'll try to find it and post it. But "likely" doesn't equate to "proof" or "fact". So we hope, but we don't "know" and "can't" until it happens. I feel exactly the same way about religion, that's why they call it "faith" and not "proof". But I don't see how that relates to this posting at all except as an opportunity for an anti-religionist to vent (I'm also not religious, but I'm not angry about it or anything). I hope quotes instead of capitals provide emphasis that doesn't hurt your delicate sensibilities. I don't like shouting either but wouldn't be rude enough to call it "fucking hilarious" and mock someone elses closely held belief system instead of just requesting he don't shout so much. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #24 August 17, 2005 very nice post, thanks for that. I didn't mean to come across to anyone as shouting w/ my CAPS... maybe I should follow billvon and do the _underscore_ thing for emphasis. i too hope that there _is_ proof of other life "out there," if for no other reason than for practicality - look at all that wasted space if there isn't and, since religion _was_ brought up, to me it fits rather well, the concept of a "God" designing/creating a universe where there is abundant life, not just on this planet, but on many others. it creates very interesting questions vis a vis who Jesus was, the idea of a saviour, etc. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 August 17, 2005 Human have hope. It manifests normally in belief of things that have no real proof. For me, it's that people are normally good and decent - it's not really true, each person is unique and may be good or not as they are. For others it's belief in a god or the like. For others it's space aliens. For others it's a strong anti-belief in something or a cause or whatever. For others, it's winning the lottery. To each his owm. What matters is how those beliefs affects their behavior, not necessaryily the belief itself. We can only hope it's positive. That's why it's disturbing to see so many belief systems based on non-belief of what others hold dear. I find that to be the most unsettling thing in today's society. More than anything else. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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jakee 1,596 #5 August 15, 2005 QuoteThere are no aliens. Move along. Nothing to see here. Move along. There most certainly are aliens, the universe is just too vast for there not to be. Of course that doesn't mean that I think they are, or ever will be, 'down here' but they are definitely 'out there'. Still didn't understand a word of the first post though.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #6 August 15, 2005 The fact that there is no irrefutable proof that aliens exist and have visited this planet proves something very profound. It proves that we will never leave this rock to colonize new worlds. As was pointed out, the universe is simpley too big for aliens not to exist. They must be out there and not just one or two alien races, there must be millions of them. So why have we not seen any aliens? The answer is because they cannot get here. The universe should be full of aliens zipping back and forth, but it is not. This can only mean that Einstein was correct, travel faster than light is not possible and there are no short cuts. We are stuck on this rock we called earth and always will be. Apart from the brief escapes from 14000ft Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #7 August 15, 2005 I've always wondered where the concept of aliens helping us with our problems stemmed from. Star Trek? What's the chance that our saviors are going to be bald ridge headed bipedal beings that know english? Based on the Visitors' concentration of activity, I will not believe in aliens until the "first contact" speaks english. . .with a Southern or West Virginian drawl._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #8 August 16, 2005 Some-one just explained it all to me after I showed off my ignorance. WE ARE THE ALIENS and we're totally lost in space. Planet earth is our space ship/hive and we've all gone completely mad. MMMmmm ..., preferred being ignorant. inreply to "There are no aliens. Move along. Nothing to see here. Move along. ' &^%$ing alien gate keepers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #9 August 16, 2005 QuoteMMMmmm ..., preferred being ignorant. No worries--I've got enough ignorance to share with everyone (and often do!). Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #10 August 16, 2005 I repeat somewhat ...I heard there were liquid hydrogen bowsers in the USA in a high- tech silicon- think- tank type valley. Do any viewers use liquid hydrogen in their cars? The rest of this was edited cause I'm yet to find the correct forum for serious alien technology access. apparently ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #11 August 16, 2005 Anyone who doesn't believe in aliens hasn't sat up late around a fire in a remote region and looked up.. Some of the visitors you'll get are NOT human.or like any terrestrials I've seen so far. Driving along late at night where you don't even see a light or other vehichle for hours you get to see some funny things. Cute little purple dinosaurs & blue eyed aliens turning into cows are just not from around here. (as far as I know no-one has lsd'd the water supply ) Multiple sightings of aircraft that just can't move like that also get convincing over time. A while ago I saw on the late news a report of a formation a extremely fast flying objects which where filmed passing over one coastline and then a minute ot two later filmed passing over the other side of the continent. (not satelites) They showed the footage .The news reader looked like she was wetting herself with excitement. next day nothing to report ..zero info. Keep us stupid= keeping us under control.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #12 August 16, 2005 QuoteDoes anyone else feel the need for an alien forum or is it just me?I can think of some people I'd like to banish to an Alien forum . Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #13 August 16, 2005 If you put in the right request to the right people anything is possible. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #14 August 16, 2005 There most certainly are aliens, the universe is just too vast for there not to be*** that is faulty logic. b/c the universe is vast doesn't mean, therefore, that there are_certainly_aliens out there. A vast universe only means just that - the universe is vast. Anything beyond that is just inference and speculation. What is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. Quit putting forth HOPE or wishful thinking as FACT. They aren't the same. There is life on THIS planet, only b/c the conditions are right for it. We don't KNOW that conditions are right on any other planet for life to exist. IMO, chances are GOOD that conditions are right, given the said vastness, based on mere probabilities, but that is far from being fact. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #15 August 16, 2005 I know what you mean by remote regions. I came from the southern new mexico desert. On a moonless night, you swear all those stars brighten up the sky as much as a full moon does. Thing is, the DOD, lockheed, mcdonald douglass/boeing has some very weird exotic machines out in the new mexico and nevada arizona deserts. One thing about these places though, a medium sized bat that flys directly overhead of you at about fifteen feet not making noise looks like a very huge shadowy thing flying from one point of the sky to the other end thousands of feet up thus requiring extreme speeds and maneuvers. No point of reference to judge distance. If you have a little light source such as a campfire, you will see a dull illuminated object wavering, doing "maneuvers that defy physics ". It's just Count Chocula hanging out. Just out of curiousity, where are you going with the hydrogen stuff in a valley?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #16 August 16, 2005 QuoteThere most certainly are aliens, the universe is just too vast for there not to be Yes, yes, OUT THERE. Not here, nope never. Move along. Look OUT THERE. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #17 August 16, 2005 Quotethat is faulty logic. b/c the universe is vast doesn't mean, therefore, that there are_certainly_aliens out there. A vast universe only means just that - the universe is vast. Anything beyond that is just inference and speculation. What is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. You are right, I have no proof that life exists outside of this planet. However, look at this image. The Hubble Ultra Deep Field. a picture of a tiny region of space that contains a thousand galaxies, not stars, galaxies. The ones at the very back of the image existed billions of years ago. So we have a combination of three things, a universe that contains more stars and planets in a single degree of sky than we could ever comprehend, a phenomenal amount of time, and proof that life is possible (us). How anyone could seriously consider this and not conclude that alien life is as near certain as it is possible to get is beyond me. Will we ever find it, who knows, maybe not. There is a lot of sky to look at and whatever is out there is going to be a long way away.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #18 August 16, 2005 I do believe it is possoible for aliens to exist when you think of the vasness of the universe. what i find hard to belive is that our societies are run by religeous dickhead who can't take thier head out of the sand. and look past our planet(that was so obviously built just for us to take advantage of (NOT) why wouldn't aliens o0f some form or another exist?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #19 August 16, 2005 QuoteWhat is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. Quit putting forth HOPE or wishful thinking as FACT. They aren't the same. Just re-read your reply and had to comment on this. Coming from a religious person (which I believe you are?) that is fucking hilarious. Belief in God is the ultimate in wishful thinking, the entire edifice of religion is hope that death isn't the end. Extra Terrestrial life is both far more logical and far more likely than a divine being. Oh and by the way, CAPITALISING every other WORD doesn't give your opinion any more weight, it just makes it more annoying.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #20 August 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat is so frustrating is that so many people on THIS planet have taken ON FACT that intelligent life exists elsewhere and we just have yet to find it. Quit putting forth HOPE or wishful thinking as FACT. They aren't the same. Just re-read your reply and had to comment on this. Coming from a religious person (which I believe you are?) that is fucking hilarious. Belief in God is the ultimate in wishful thinking, the entire edifice of religion is hope that death isn't the end. Extra Terrestrial life is both far more logical and far more likely than a divine being. Oh and by the way, CAPITALISING every other WORD doesn't give your opinion any more weight, it just makes it more annoying. My belief in God has little bearing on this argument. But thanks for the ad hominem remarks. VERY grown up of you. And JUST to further annoy you, I've decided to CAPITALIZE some MORE words for you. BTW, why is my belief in God any more wishful thinking than your belief of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #21 August 17, 2005 QuoteMy belief in God has little bearing on this argument. But thanks for the ad hominem remarks. I know it doesn't, I just didn't like the hostile tone of your first reply. Anyway, like I said, my belief in extra terrestrial life (I never said intelligent) is based on 3 observations, it is possible for life to develop in the right conditions, there is an unimaginably huge number of stars out there that could have the right conditions and there has been a huge amount of time available for life to develop in these places. Compare that with the possible existence of a divinity which no one has ever observed, no one knows what it is or where it comes from and which cannot be described by the laws with which we describe our universe, which one sounds more likely? And that is before we get into the origins of gods as explanations for natural phenomena and tools for rationalising death as something other than the end. On the other hand where is the advantage to be had in believing in aliens, where is the wish in the wishful thinking? They are just there, it does not benefit or inconvenience us in any way. Now, I hope that one day we will pick up signals from an alien civilisation but I'm not holding my breath and I certainly don't think any real communication will ever be possible. Like I said before the distances and areas involved are just so vast.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #22 August 17, 2005 I know it doesn't, I just didn't like the hostile tone of your first reply. Quote gee, sorry. so you meet what you perceived as hostility w/ hostility. nice of you. existence of a divinity which no one has ever observed*** no, that you BELIEVE no one has ever observed. I see Him every day. I see Him in my kids, in my wife, in creation, in Mass, in the Eucharist. It's not just a psychological manifestation. It's a tangible, experiential reality that billions of humans experience everyday. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 August 17, 2005 QuoteJust re-read your reply and had to comment on this. Coming from a religious person (which I believe you are?) that is fucking hilarious. Belief in God is the ultimate in wishful thinking, the entire edifice of religion is hope that death isn't the end. Extra Terrestrial life is both far more logical and far more likely than a divine being. I don't think sinker was hostile, just commenting on there being no proof to alien life. I hope there is other life and think it likely, but the odds aren't as vast as many think - there've been calculations based on (albeit a narrow) sets of requirements for life to exist and the probabilities of all of them existing simultaneously on a single planet. It indicates that life would "likely" exist, but be sparse. I'll try to find it and post it. But "likely" doesn't equate to "proof" or "fact". So we hope, but we don't "know" and "can't" until it happens. I feel exactly the same way about religion, that's why they call it "faith" and not "proof". But I don't see how that relates to this posting at all except as an opportunity for an anti-religionist to vent (I'm also not religious, but I'm not angry about it or anything). I hope quotes instead of capitals provide emphasis that doesn't hurt your delicate sensibilities. I don't like shouting either but wouldn't be rude enough to call it "fucking hilarious" and mock someone elses closely held belief system instead of just requesting he don't shout so much. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #24 August 17, 2005 very nice post, thanks for that. I didn't mean to come across to anyone as shouting w/ my CAPS... maybe I should follow billvon and do the _underscore_ thing for emphasis. i too hope that there _is_ proof of other life "out there," if for no other reason than for practicality - look at all that wasted space if there isn't and, since religion _was_ brought up, to me it fits rather well, the concept of a "God" designing/creating a universe where there is abundant life, not just on this planet, but on many others. it creates very interesting questions vis a vis who Jesus was, the idea of a saviour, etc. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 August 17, 2005 Human have hope. It manifests normally in belief of things that have no real proof. For me, it's that people are normally good and decent - it's not really true, each person is unique and may be good or not as they are. For others it's belief in a god or the like. For others it's space aliens. For others it's a strong anti-belief in something or a cause or whatever. For others, it's winning the lottery. To each his owm. What matters is how those beliefs affects their behavior, not necessaryily the belief itself. We can only hope it's positive. That's why it's disturbing to see so many belief systems based on non-belief of what others hold dear. I find that to be the most unsettling thing in today's society. More than anything else. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
