People I'm Afraid of

[Everon 0]

But atheism, by definition, cannot be a religion. Being one (and a humanist as well), I'm a strong proponent of equal treatment, rights, opportunities, etc. for everyone. I also know that science (and education in general) is the medium for a better society in the future, and many other positive points. My point is: how is this religious (it is not)? And if it were in some way treated as a religion, how could a middle ground be achieved? Are you implying that atheism and humanism be subject to the scrutiny and "attacks" as christianity is? If so, perhaps those christians who view us as "evil" will finally be shed of their ignorance (and thus the "middle ground?") Please explain. Thanks.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

how is this religious (it is not)

As I stated earlier, religion is defined first by belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine. If you do not believe in a supernatural, sacred or divine then you've laid the foundation for your belief concerning it - that is, you have no belief in a supernatural power.

Quote

I also know that science (and education in general) is the medium for a better society in the future, and many other positive points.

However, your reactions, ethics and moral codes are based upon the tenet that man is the measure of all things. See Protagoras. Humanists use this basis to reject such absolute laws as the Ten Commandments. Humanists set their own moralities and ethics. Science and reason dominate the humanist.

Like it or not, secularism, humanism or atheism meet the definition of religion. It is indeed a much better fit for the definition of "religion" than a meopausal woman would fit with the definition of "life" for a menopausal woman cannot reproduce.

Assuming that secular humanism is not a religion, should your belief that science and education are the medium for a better society leave those in the dust who personally believe otherwise? I truly think that the last statement that you made is quite telling - secularism is the best way, and other ways must yield. This is, in effect, a Crusade, isn't it?

Quote

And if it were in some way treated as a religion, how could a middle ground be achieved?

The middle ground would be boths sides lightening up and realizing that there's room for everything. You've said education is part of the medium for a better society. Does not education include religion? To leave religion out of it is to fail to fuly educate.

I don't trust religion to teach me about math or engineering or even science. But I do look to it with regard to my desire for a good society. Why can't religion be offered as an option to fill in some holes.

I'll put it this way - can a teacher in a public school tell a student about karma? Karma is a pretty well-known thing and is regularly mentioned in the population. But, karma is a religious concept of cause and effect and is part of the tenets of many eastern religions. It is, in fact, traced to Hinduism and is found in Buddhism and other Dharma-based religions.

So, if a teacher at a public school mentions karma, it should deserve the same scrutiny as a teacher who says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The Golden Rule is Christian - and it's the same damned thing as karma, isn't it? (well, the kriyamana karma). "As thou soweth also shall you reap" equals karma.

Now, many would find the teaching of the "Golden Rule" be be a violation of the separation of church and state. But, the vast majority of these same people would not have a problem with mentioning karma - even by name.

Gregor Mendel was a monk. He laid the groundwork for genetics. Can we talk about the history without a reference to his work? Did not Thomas Aquinas and Thomas More, along with Gregor Mendel and Montaigne, show how religion can help advance science and reason? Should that be forgotten, or should educators skip over things like this?

Quote

Are you implying that atheism and humanism be subject to the scrutiny and "attacks" as christianity is?

Exactly. Why should atheism and humanism be subject to attacks? I know that atheists can't consider themselves "holier than thou" although humanists do have room in their dogma to argue that they are, indeed, "holier than thou."

It is because of circumstances like this that I believe that people are going after Christians and not after other religions, such as Jews, Hindus, Buddhists or Muslims. I think Chritians are somewhat justified to feel attacked.

Quote

If so, perhaps those christians who view us as "evil" will finally be shed of their ignorance (and thus the "middle ground?")

Those Christians who view atheists as "evil" I don't think can really be considered too Christian. However, why cannot a Christian have a moment of silence in school? Why cannot a Muslim pray to Mecca at school? Indeed, the only ones who can worship what they want at the atheists and humanists, who either have nothing to worship or have themselves to worship.

Perhaps is there was room for everybody in government there'd be some more understanding and comraderie. Instead, there is only room for humaists and atheists, it seems. Except in Kansas, where I think that atheists and humanists are gettign a glimpse of what all religions, and especially Christians, are facing in the political climate.

Personally, I worshipped a girl named Beth when I was in high school, but never even got to first base with her. She was religious and wouldn't allow me anything. I wish that the schools had banned that part...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Everon 0]

But I don't understand what you mean by "the absolute laws of the ten commandments." The first five deal with the one and "only god." Don't kill, steal, nor covet were standards long before the 10 cs, and disrespecting your parents (resulting in death) would mean the end of humanity, and adultury even more so. Are these absolute laws?

I would argue that religion is a set of beliefs that includes a "higher power, supernatural." I do not hold such a belief, and fail to understand how atheism by definition has a "belief in the supernatural." We believe in no such thing.

The only thing I'm implying as far as science is concerned is that it has come a long way in explaining chemical and physical evolution, whereas christianity has made no progress in 2000 years. In fact, a true christian would still claim the earth is flat, supported by pillars, and the sun revolves around it - just like the "good book" says.

As far as religious studies, yes, I think it should be at least an elective in an educational atmosphere. I studied at a jesuit university, and one year was required. But it was not about being religious - only the history of religion. Karma, etc.? Fine, if it is taught as history. But do you really look to it with a regard to a good society? (christianity in particular?) Do you believe that discrimination against gays is beneficial to a good society? How about accusations that people like me are evil? George Bush Sr. not even considering me as a citizen of this country? Atheists are nothing but garbage? Gays are going to hell? How is this beneficial to society?

I see that christians are the ones that always attack, not the ones being attacked. If you perceive them as being attacked, it's in response to the hateful comments they make against minorities, like me.

I think religion should be kept where it belongs - in the church and, if one wishes, at home. I have no problem with that. But I believe you think that atheists and humanists are "stuck on themselves." We're not! We don't see people who believe as lower than us. We simply want equality for every human. Period. Without anyone's beliefs harming anyone else.

Finally, I hope you have found a better "Beth" and have received the enjoyment you missed in high school!!!! A blue sky to you!