Gosh wash the A-Bombing of Japan worth it?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Whilst the original bombs were not as powerful as todays bombs, they were enough to devastate an entire city so they were certainly powerful.

We covered this in the larger thread.

No, they weren't that powerful. 6 sq km destroyed is not an entire city. Reinforced concrete buildings were destroyed to a radius of 500-750m.

[Botellines 0]

They were certainly more powerful than any other bomb at that time. What other explosive device could destroy reinforced concrete in a radius of 500-750 Km.

If you add that they didn´t know how many bombs you had, they would make an excelent tool to negotiate.

[juanesky 0]

Indeed from Genral Curti Lee May, to GENERAL CURTIS LEMAY, there is a bit of a difference. It helps if you spell names correctly you know?


In regards to the link rickjump posted, well, do you think 50/50 split, (and please do recheck your history facts), that meant they were about to surrender? Once you understand that the Japanese military were in effective control of the whole system, plus even seizure of the emperor was planned when word of surrender took place, then perhaps you will make better informed guess, since the Japanese military wanted to avoid an unconditional surrender, and this is the fact you left out

In that lala land you describe in your comment, that petition is irrelevant, as the first Bomb was detonated on July 16th!!!! a whooping 13 days after the petition in question. Can you see how in less than 30 days they used the tested weapon? Doesn't that hint the urgency of the situation?

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Laslty the reaosn it was considered mitlatiraly unnecassry to drop the bomb was becuase Japan had been devestated and peace was seen as achievable through negotiation. So the comparison with Okinawa is utterly irrelevant.

Speak for yourself pal. Most history comments on this particular notion, (I certainly don't know why you want to ignore Okinawa), is that we were at war with Japan. It is very relevant the battle for Okinawa, as we were preparing for a land invasion. Honestly I do not know why someone will make such an ignorant comment disregarding a very important fact, that gave a clear picture as to what to expect to get an unconditional surrender from the Japanese....

You either ignore or simply don't know that it was of essence to beat the Russians, since they declared war on Japan on AUGUST 8TH!!! and invaded Manchuria. Go figure we dropped the bomb 2 days before, and one more the very next day, and war ended, thus stopping Stalin on his tracks.....


Go ahead flame away....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Casurf1978 0]

Even AFTER we dropped the second bomb the Japanese War Council was still divided 50/50. The military side of the council wanted to fight on and head a guerrilla war with the Emperor close to their side. The only thing that brought the Japanese to their knees was the two bombs. Did you know that PM Suzuki was almost assissinated after the Emperor told the council that Japan was going to surrender. One of Generals on the council committed suicide rather than face the disgrace of surrender. After knowing this do you still think negotiations would've worked.

[juanesky 0]

It is not facts that few of the "but there were other options" crowd are after..

Yes, invite the enemy so they can review and check your secret weapons lab....and yes, no target has military significance...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[lucia 0]

Ok I dont really know exactly what the facts are or were.. but I can tell you guys that some of you need a bit more of respect in your words.. You cant talk that way about millions of people that are dead!!!!!!! I dont care on what side they are!!!!!!!! Your arrogance is so inmense that you loose any kind of possible interest to me. I love history and love lo learn about all the parts involved but when you guys speak with that impunity I just cant stand it. How can someone in his common sense that the death of million of peolpe was worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its like kindergarden kids speaking. Of course its not worth it! Never in your life you can think that the death of someone is worth it! I dont care if it a Jap a US citizen or a Iraqui civilian.

Lets be more respectfull here guys beause a smart conversation can turn in to bar chat in just a second. Dont talk about others what you dont want to be said about you.
The life of a person , a single person , is something that is to be respected. Lots of innocent people died, on both sides, and they deserve our respect. They arent guilty of the decisions taken by poiliticians, decisions that most of the times are the worst decisions taken ever.
Something I cant stand in this world is when things are not fair. And a f.... war is not fair for anybody involved in it , and that never asked for it.
Excuse me for my english , it is not my first language.

Lucy in the Sky
http:\\www.skydivelillo.com

[Botellines 0]

Well said Lucia!!!

[christelsabine 1]

Yep. What Botellines said.

It really is refreshing to hear the very rare voice of a normal human being supporting normal human feelings, in contradiction to all those noisy war-loving (alter-) servicemen...

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

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Ok I dont really know exactly what the facts are or were.. but I can tell you guys that some of you need a bit more of respect in your words.. You cant talk that way about millions of people that are dead!!!!!!!

Which millions are you talking about? The 30M dead Chinese? The nearly same number of dead Russians? Certainly not the 150k that died in each of the atomic blasts, or the conventional bombing of Tokyo.

Let's review a key bit of WWII - Americans didn't want any part of it. We didn't start it (Japan and Germany did), and the majority wanted to leave it alone. The Japanese are in no place to be upset about the consequences.

[Casurf1978 0]

I respect your post and you made a good point as to the value of human life. But please you are from Spain. Spain's losses in WWII are aprox 12K military and 10K civilian. In April and May 1944, the Allied air forces lost nearly 12,000 men and over 2,000 aircraft in operations which paved the way for D-Day. We lost more men in two months than you did in the entire war The following is from the DDay museum:

"Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces. Of the Allied casualties, 83,045 were from 21st Army Group (British, Canadian and Polish ground forces), 125,847 from the US ground forces. The losses of the German forces during the Battle of Normandy can only be estimated. Roughly 200,000 German troops were killed or wounded. The Allies also captured 200,000 prisoners of war (not included in the 425,000 total, above). During the fighting around the Falaise Pocket (August 1944) alone, the Germans suffered losses of around 90,000, including prisoners. "

I'm not picking on your country. My point is that by the summer of 1945 we were sick and f-ing tired of the war. The allies lost more men in Normandy than Spain did in its civil war. We were faced with an advisary in the Pacific that had never been successfully invaded in its ENTIRE history. We didn't have the Allied powers to help us out. We had a choice. End the war in a matter of days or weeks or launch a full blown land invasion that would've cost both sides dearly. It was a horrific choice, but it ended the war in days and saved countless of lives on both sides.

[Botellines 0]

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Which millions are you talking about? The 30M dead Chinese? The nearly same number of dead Russians? Certainly not the 150k that died in each of the atomic blasts, or the conventional bombing of Tokyo.

Let's review a key bit of WWII - Americans didn't want any part of it. We didn't start it (Japan and Germany did), and the majority wanted to leave it alone. The Japanese are in no place to be upset about the consequences.

I think she refers to any million, leaving aside nationality. A human live is worth exactly the same wether it is a Japanese, American or spanish human life. It is not nationality, but kindness what makes a human life more worthy than others.

That is something that many people fails to understand. To me an american has the same value as an innocent iraqui civilian (not talking about terrorists or GWB here, mind you).