Is religion the cause of all our problems?

[philh 0]

Kelpdiver, Im afraid your take on the situation is not in line with the facts. Many of the Al Queada leaders were wealthy Saudis who gave up their high material lifestyle to go live in caves fighting for their religious ideals. Bin Laden himself is a perfect example. This is consitent with religion being the cause of the problem not personal greed.
If people would use reason rather than religion in their thinking there would be at least one less motive to fight wars. Perhaps the soldiers would be a bit more reluctant to fight in them.

[pajarito 0]

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Kelpdiver, Im afraid your take on the situation is not in line with the facts. Many of the Al Queada leaders were wealthy Saudis who gave up their high material lifestyle to go live in caves fighting for their religious ideals. Bin Laden himself is a perfect example. This is consitent with religion being the cause of the problem not personal greed.

Sure, but what’s their real underlying motivation? Is it to please God or is it to win whatever eternal reward is supposedly waiting for them when they die? If their motive is the latter, then selfishness comes into play even if what they desire is spiritual in nature. However, no one can answer that question for certain. That’s between them & God. Just a thought.

[br0k3n 0]

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]I dont believe that religion is the cause of all the world's problems...they are mainly caused because many turn their back on God.

These people didn’t turn there back on God, oh and look what happened, a baby died…


[sic]When religion interferes with good sense and basic reasoning, it is often the weakest and most innocent who suffer most and most quickly - including children.
WISH TV reports on a case from Indiana:
The parents of the little girl say their religious convictions kept them from getting their daughter medical care. ... A report from the Johnson County sheriff's department says the church is called the General Assembly and Church of the First Born. It's located in Morgantown. Elders from the church gathered to pray for the infant when she got sick, but their prayers weren't enough to keep her alive.
"These people don't believe in medical treatment. They have a religious belief that they're going to rely on prayer and medical treatment. Man's medical treatment supercedes God's faith, evidently,” said Lieutenant Mike McElwain, Johnson County sheriff’s department. ... "With all the medical advances, I mean, there's no need for a child to die in that circumstances,” said Lt. McElwain. "The way I understand it, a shot of penicillin could have taken care of the whole thing."
Sadly, what the parents did may not even be illegal - too often religion is given a free pass to allow people to do all sorts of ridiculous things that would be criminal in other circumstances. People who neglect their children and let them die for "secular" reasons are put in jail. Parents who do it for "religious" reasons are, in many cases, just let go so that they can try again.

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People use God like a spare tire...only when a plane is shooting off the end of the runway and bursting in flames. Once they get out...they tell God ""thanks pal, and don't bother me untilI need you again.""

To use God in such a manner is blasphemous and a slap in His Holy Face.

How many times have you seen the news after such a disaster, how many people did you see post 9/11 thanking God for being alive…. What the hell gives these people pathetic ideas of grandeur that they were any better then the 1000’s that died, that they were chosen to be spared… how fucking disrespectful…

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[peregrinerose 0]

I am very non-religious, but I don't think that religion itself is the cause of any problems at all.

I think problems are caused by the arrogance of humans, we all believe that we are right, and everyone else is wrong (just read a lot of Speaker's Corner posts for proof of that one!!)

Religion just happens to tend to clump people of similar belief systems together.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Everon 0]

Religion is responsible for millions upon millions of murders - history shows this. Religion is responsible for suppression of civil rights of human beings in this country (gays, atheists, etc.) even today. Religion is responsible for the suppression of education (Galileo's telescope 350 years ago, evolution today), so it is indeed a serious problem, as it has always been.

Hmmm. The religious blame communism on millions of murders. Niether Stalin nor Mao killed in the name of atheism. They killed in the name of power. In fact, cough up the evidence that Stalin was an atheist (there is none). The inquisition, crusades, etc. were responsible for millions of murders - in the name of RELIGION.

History always repeats itself..... mistakes and all.

[kelpdiver 2]

religion didn't kill those people, it was a tool used to do it. Still killing for power, or insanity (see Stalin)

[billvon 3,114]

>Religion is responsible for millions upon millions of murders . . . .

Well, people are the ones ultimately responsible. Religion is just one of the many flags evil leaders use to rally people against other people. Popes, kings, caliphs, emperors, dictators, and ayatollahs have all misused patriotism, religion and national pride to do some pretty nasty business.

It's tempting to think that a world without religion would be a more peaceful one, but I have no doubt that we'd just come up with another reason to kill each other.

[tr027 0]

YES, religion is the cause of most of our problems, such as wars.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Mockingbird 0]

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If people didn't fight over things in the name of religion, they'd just fight over it in the name of something else. It's not the cause. It's the excuse.

I think you're right on. Just watch two toddlers when one of them has something that the other one wants. I think most of the problems between people can be traced to selfishness or jealousy or wanting to control... practically anything having to do with "I" (ego).

Of course, skydivers are exempt from this human malady.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Elisha 1]

No, Sin is the cause of all of our problems.

Don't let the Devil make you do it.

[Everon 0]

I think you're being too cynical here. A world without religion where people are brought up to respect their fellow humans (and I mean all humans) and given a proper and quality education would have a great chance to be a peaceful one. What we don't need is people being brought up learning intolerance and bigotry (christianity's views on certain minority groups, etc.) The keys are education and proper upbringing. No B.S. Don't you think we'd have a good chance then? Of course, sadly, this will never happen - we will never have that chance. By the way, point taken on "religion killing." I still feel, however, in my own mind, that it is responsible. I'm just a humanistic scientist who is sickened by the bigotry, intolerance, and suppression of education that is occurring today in the name of christianity.

[billvon 3,114]

> A world without religion where people are brought up to respect their
>fellow humans (and I mean all humans) and given a proper and
> quality education would have a great chance to be a peaceful one.

I agree. However, a world _with_ religion where people are brought up to respect their fellow humans and given a proper and quality education would also have a great chance to be a peaceful one. It is the respect and education, not the lack of faith in a religion, that would make the difference.

[rehmwa 2]

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I'm just a humanistic scientist who is sickened by the bigotry, intolerance, and suppression of education that is occurring today in the name of organized religions

that fix I'd agree with

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Everon 0]

But, billvon, wherever organized religion (christianity, islam, and such) exists, respect for all and quality education are both suppressed. A world with both cannot exist.

[Everon 0]

Thank you, I stand corrected. That is exactly what I meant.

[billvon 3,114]

>But, billvon, wherever organized religion (christianity, islam, and
>such) exists, respect for all and quality education are both suppressed.

I was a member of a church back in NY that had quite a bit of respect for other religions. Our family would volunteer both at our church (the catholic one) and the one down the street (the episcopal church.) And since I wanted to get into a good college, I went to a catholic high school, which had a considerably higher level of education than the local high school.

Again, while religion can be used to promote prejudice and ignorance, it is not a cause-effect relationship. Patriotism can be used exactly the same way - but that doesn't mean that patriotic people are all stupid bigots.

[philh 0]

The idea that religion is just an excuse for a fight that would happen anyway doesnt make sense. It implies tht ideas,philosophies, moralities, upbringing dont have consequences. If thats the case then theres no problem teaching children racism. After all genocidal terror seen in Nazi germany or Rwanda for example, was a slaughter that would have happened anyway dont go blaming racism and people brought up to hate a certain group.
Most religions teah that theres is the only way to heaven. If you believe in an eternal afterlife you might not have as many problems killing and torturing in this short life if you think it will mean more people go to heaven. This is a very dangerous idea, just like racism is and it is one of, but not the only, cause of conflicts in the world today and throught history.

[peregrinerose 0]

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The idea that religion is just an excuse for a fight that would happen anyway doesnt make sense. It implies tht ideas,philosophies, moralities, upbringing dont have consequences.

So just because I have no religious inclination, I therefore do not have ideas, philosophies, moralities, or upbringing? Even if religion was banished completely, you would still have different sects of people... divided by country/geography, culture, split on idealogical issues (abortion being right/wrong for example), political parties. It is division between groups of people, regardless of the barrier's name (religion or something else) that causes the problems. It is the lack of communication and understanding across that barrier. It is egocentrism, perhaps even some degree of insecurity that causes the 'I'm right and you're wrong' mentality.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[billvon 3,114]

>The idea that religion is just an excuse for a fight that would happen
> anyway doesnt make sense. It implies tht ideas,philosophies,
> moralities, upbringing dont have consequences.

They do indeed have consequences. But what _you_ seem to be implying is that all religions do is tell people to kill each other. And after having been immersed in one very heavily for the first 17 years of my life, I can say with some authority that that's nonsense. When I grew up, the lessons we got taught were "love your neighbor" "turn the other cheek" "consider the beam in your eye before you bug your brother about the mote in his."

That's true about many philosophies. Not all patriots are racist warmongers. Not all military folks want to kill everyone. Not all communists want to take over the world. Sure, those things have happened. But they are not endemic to those lifestyles/philosophies.

>If thats the case then theres no problem teaching children racism.

We _do_ teach people racism - specifically doctors. Black people get treated differently by doctors because they have different health risks for skin cancer, hemophilia, sickle cell anemia, and heart disease. Should we outlaw that, and make doctors treat everyone equally despite their differing health risks? More people would die.

Of course, most people use racism to discriminate against people they feel are evil, stupid, or otherwise lacking, and _that's_ the problem.

>Most religions teah that theres is the only way to heaven. If you
> believe in an eternal afterlife you might not have as many problems
> killing and torturing in this short life if you think it will mean more
> people go to heaven.

My religion teaches that you don't go to heaven if you do those things. Thus my religion discourages, rather than fosters, such activity. Of course, others have used that same religion as an excuse to do all those things - but that's their fault for misinterpreting things.

[Everon 0]

I don't think anyone is implying that religion is telling people to kill each other. I too believe that is nonsense in most cases. My point is that the crusades, the inquisition, 9/11, etc. resulted in millions of deaths in the name of christianity and islam. This is true.

As I've mentioned, I am an atheist and in my experience, there has only been one christian who has ever treated me with the respect as a person that I deserve. All others avoid me, give me nasty looks and call me "satan worshiper" or "evil," not even remotely realizing how ridiculous their accusations are (satan only exists in the christian's world, not my world of reality.) My best friend is gay - do I even need to tell you how christians treat him?

I too attended a catholic school (college) and the education was outstanding, but there is also a lot of money behind them to hire competent teachers. What I mean to address is the education in public schools, which most kids attend. There is where the suppression is (evolution), and the physical sciences in general are an enemy to the christians because it is a threat to them. School boards all over the country are considering ID being taught along with science. Don't you think that this is absolutely unbelievable? And sickening? Kansas students will now learn less evolution than ever before - this is suppression of a perfectly valid science as we know it today.

Of course, not all religions are guilty of this. Wicca, for example, is a very humanistic religion. But these religions combine to form a small minority. I just feel that without organized religion, the world would be a better place. In fact, I'm sure of it.

[lucia 0]

There is just an infinite number of people dead in the name of different gods. The blind devotion is a type of fanatism and we all know the consecuences of fanatism. The problem I think relies not in the religion itself but on the institutions that administrate them.

Lucy in the Sky
http:\\www.skydivelillo.com

[philh 0]

"So just because I have no religious inclination, I therefore do not have ideas, philosophies, moralities, or upbringing? Even if religion was banished completely, you would still have different sects of people... divided by country/geography, culture, split on idealogical issues (abortion being right/wrong for example), political parties. It is division between groups of people, regardless of the barrier's name (religion or something else) that causes the problems."

I have never claimed that someone with no religious inclination has no philisophy. I myself have no religion but I do have a philosphy. Nor have I claimed that if we got rid of religion that there would be no conflict. What i di say is that one of the most important causes(NOT THE ONLY) of conflict is religion. Al Queada have made it very clear that they are fighting a war for two main reasons. One is to removie infidels from lands considered holy and two is try and spread Sharia law as far as possible. They encourage their foot soldiers by telling them the will have eternal paradise(including 37 virgins for themsleves) in the afterlife. All of this is clear evdience of religous motivation. Religion is the problem here. Now I dont know how many times i have to say it. I dont claim that religion is our only problem, or the only cause of conflict but it is evidently one of them and the less people accept the superstition of religion the less causes of conflict we will have.

Bilvon I am glad your teachers taught you to love they neighbour. You clearly had some nice teachers. i would never claim that all religous people teach hatred. What do I claim is that the religion itself encourages conflict. Now at different points in history different followers of religion will focus on different aspects of that religion. Just becuase your teachers focused on the nice elemnts of the bible. doesnt mean others wont focus on the bits that say kill homosexuals, kill sabbath breakers, blasphemers etc. But it is in the religion itself that the problem lies. If you believe in an all powerful god that communicates with humans, than it is more likely that you will follow those that encourage violence if you believe that your masters are following gods will. Moreover the precedent is set in the bible as god frequently orders killing of mass civilians. So why would he not do so again? Furthermore Christianity teaches one must accept Christ to go to heaven. Hell awaits the non believer. So any paign inflicted on the non believer is nothing compared to what they will experience if they dont convert. This was why torture was so common when the Church ruled Europe.

[rhys 0]

yes religonis the cause of most of the worlds problems!

it is stupid.

religon relates only to mankind (very selfish) human existance is only a stitch in time
comparitively. there is much much more to life than human existance. as soon as the 'different' religons realise this. the world would be a much nicer place to live in.(but thats never going to happen)
no relgon explains the solar system, dinasours or ice ages etc.

how can people be so stupid as to beleive in that SHIT

if as much time, energy and money was spent on sustainability, ecology, waste management and famine, as is spent on useless, time wasting religon then the future would be far less bleak.

that money that gets thrown into the collection bag does not go to the poor. or to stop creatures from becoming extinct. it keeps the vicar in the latest model bmw.

FOOLS

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix