Darius11 12 #1 July 25, 2005 I know this may seem like a very dumb questions to most but do to a recent thread I think maybe I am losing my mind. Or I have been abducted and taken to another planet so that’s why I made this poll. Please keep in mind we are talking innocent people and your motivation is only $$$$. my answer is noI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 July 25, 2005 Who do you think is killing for $? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #3 July 25, 2005 dunno.. how much are you willing to pay?I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #4 July 25, 2005 What does it matter who? It is a general question. Unless you have different standards for different people. If not then you should answer it on what you believe. On your morals.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #5 July 25, 2005 Let me add to your question, Is it okay to put yourself in a position where you VERY WELL MAY end up killing an innocent for money? My answer is NO WAY! Even if in the mercenary contract it doesn´t say anything about killing, that is what it will most likely happen, hence the guns. Edited to clarify Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #6 July 25, 2005 Quote What does it matter who? It doesn't, but I am curious since another thread spaked this poll. Do you think U.S. contractors are killing for money? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #7 July 25, 2005 So is it better to kill people because they don't have the same religion or beliefs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #8 July 25, 2005 QuotePlease keep in mind we are talking innocent people and your motivation is only $$$$. You think that US contractors are PLANNING on killing innocent people? Or US soldiers? There is a BIG difference between taking a job where you might have to kill someone, and being a hitman. I guess you think all Police are scum as well then...They might have to kill."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hackb431 0 #9 July 25, 2005 You need to clarify..... Am I being paid to seek out and kill specific innocent targets or being in protection services and have to kill in the line of work. That and "innocent" is relative. But hey I did my time in the US Infantry and depending on how you look at it I did kill for money...although not very much money LOL! And I swear that donkey deserved. 2 frags and 15 rounds later he was still one mean mother F'rHackB A.K.A. "Puppy" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #10 July 25, 2005 QuoteSo is it better to kill people because they don't have the same religion or beliefs? I don't think you should kill anyone unless you are in danger of being killed.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #11 July 25, 2005 QuoteLet me add to your question, Is it okay to put yourself in a position where you VERY WELL MAY end up killing an innocent for money? My answer is NO WAY! I believe that some contract security personnel are there to provide personal security for people living in dangerous places. Most heads of state have bodyguards -- there's always the possibility of their killing someone, too. It's not good. But hiring on as someone's bodyguard doesn't make one bad, either. If you do it because you're looking forward to it, that's a bad thing. But, well, whoever you're guarding probably won't like that either -- nothing is safer than avoiding the dangerous situations in the first place. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #12 July 25, 2005 QuoteQuote What does it matter who? It doesn't, but I am curious since another thread spaked this poll. Do you think U.S. contractors are killing for money? Derek No- I think many of them are building, and helping build the whole country. That’s why I mentioned mercenaries. mer·ce·nar·ies One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #13 July 25, 2005 Is it okay to kill for money? That depends. It all comes down to the motivation for the killing. If your motive is what we as a society would deem to be "evil" then the killing is not okay. For example, if you kill someone during a robbery or if you bump off your husband for the insurance money. Even killing someone to retain more of a market share in business (mob hit) has what we would deem an evil motive to it. On the other hand, some killing for money is okay. Usually, this is when the killing is incidental to your job. For example, police officers may kill people in the line of their job. Likewise, doctors and surgeons, in performing their jobs, often kill people (even when doctors do everything right, they can kill people - i.e., a kidney transplant may get rejected and kill someone in a few weeks that may have lived for many more years). Military men and women may be called upon to kill people, too. They may be killers, but usually are not considered murderers. Take My Lai, for example. Those soldiers were held criminally liable for murder because their reasons for doign the killing were not acceptable. On the other hand, pilots following orders who kill a hundred thousand people in a war are killers, but not murderers. It's a fine line and an interesting philosophical discussion. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #14 July 25, 2005 No......... As an "occasionally" devout Buddhist.......the karmic burden would be very heavyMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #15 July 25, 2005 QuoteI don't think you should kill anyone unless you are in danger of being killed. What if you have a gun and the person NEXT to you is in danger of getting killed. Lets say the guy is building a hospital, and you have to stand guard and protect him from some nutbag that wants him to stop?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #16 July 25, 2005 Being paid to do a job that may involved killing is very different from being paid to kill. If that weren't the case, every soldier, policeman and bodyguard on the planet would have to be classified as a "paid killer." I don't buy that.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #17 July 25, 2005 I think if you keep your rates reasonable it's ok. Its when you start charging more than the target is worth that it ceases to be ok and starts to become extortionate. Of course, if someone is skilled enough they can demand a much higher rate than the local hack who's just going to take a few pot shots from 100 yds away and not even check that they got their mark. I've found marketing to be difficult, its a tough to find a target demographic......(a little professional humor there...heh heh). TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #18 July 25, 2005 Bad Alex bad! No biscuit for you . Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #19 July 25, 2005 QuoteThat’s why I mentioned mercenaries. mer•ce•nar•ies One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling. So you think the armed contractors working in a security role are killing for money? Your poll skips 'are they killing for money' and goes straight to 'they are killing for money, is that right?' That isn't fair. I could put up a poll that asks; "Do you think it is OK if Darius11 sells crack to kids?" That wouldn't be fair to you since I'm sure you do not sell crack at all, but the poll implies you do. The "if" does not make any difference. To answer your question though, no being a hit-man is not right. Being an armed security guard in Iraq is OK. Using deadly force to accomplish your mission is OK in that capacity. If you think they are mercenaries, then you do not understand their mission or mercenaries. I know some of the armed contractors in Iraq and I know a guy that used to be a mercenary, very different things. The armed contractors in Iraq are not mercenaries and do not kill for money, to imply otherwise is wrong. Since you admit you do not know what they are doing in Iraq, you should educate yourself about them before you convict them of a) being a mercenary, and b) killing for money. I think they would take offense to such accusations and I think you have owe them an apology for making such accusations when you admittedly do not know what they are doing, much less know they are killing for money. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #20 July 25, 2005 Quote...I could put up a poll that asks; "Do you think it is OK if Darius11 sells crack to kids?"... Yeah, but you'd only do that if you hadn't read the sticky at the top of this forum. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #21 July 25, 2005 I think like everything else, you'll have the good with the bad. I've met a lot of Black Water contractors. Mostly PSS/DDM's (sniper/marksmen) Almost all were ex-SF. Most were no longer qualified to continue their careers with the Army/Marines/Navy due to many reasons including medicals. I can assure you there are very qualified "contractors" providing security in Iraq. And on the other hand, there are guys there to earn a buck. And killing a teenager approaching a corner while a convoy is passing, because "he seems a threat", is a reality. End of story! That's where I draw the line. Be accountable! Spraying a parked car surrounded by civilians and killing a few isnt just a military issue. But the fact seems that there is minimal responsibility once it has happened. And that is just unacceptable! This chameleon ROE seems to be the issue! Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #22 July 25, 2005 QuoteI know this may seem like a very dumb questions to most but do to a recent thread I think maybe I am losing my mind. I'll take a stab and guess you're talking about the recently locked thread where the word "mercenaries" was mentioned. QuoteOr I have been abducted and taken to another planet so that’s why I made this poll. Probably not. I think it's just another form of expressing what you think is an issue for discussion. QuotePlease keep in mind we are talking innocent people and your motivation is only $$$$. Define "innocent". Quotemy answer is no My answer is "Other". I'll try to keep it civil, but in the context of some of the other discussions I briefly looked at. A high-risk security contractor (e.g. Blackwater etc) whose job is to protect assets in a danger zone is not doing it for "money to kill people" though their job may require them to use deadly force to protect said assets. Edit to add: Now, these contractors get paid very well, so I understand if their motivation is money. Killing for money though? I choose not to make that a sole connection.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #23 July 25, 2005 QuoteI think if you keep your rates reasonable it's ok. Its when you start charging more than the target is worth that it ceases to be ok and starts to become extortionate. Of course, if someone is skilled enough they can demand a much higher rate than the local hack who's just going to take a few pot shots from 100 yds away and not even check that they got their mark. I've found marketing to be difficult, its a tough to find a target demographic......(a little professional humor there...heh heh). I almost choked when I read your post! I am still RTFLMAO!!! Thanks for a GREAT laugh!!! Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #24 July 25, 2005 QuoteBad Alex bad! No biscuit for you . Wendy W. Aw c'mon Wendy! That was one of the greatest posts of all time! Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #25 July 25, 2005 I don't claim to know what any one was doing. That’s why I sad if you kill for money I have no respect for you. Also in this thread I made it very clear. “Please keep in mind we are talking innocent people and your motivation is only $$$$.” People always want to turn it around. It is a simple question. The only way to make a poll like this is to keep it simple. If we were going to examine every killing we would need to look at them on an individual basis, and every detail would matter. I asked very simple questions if your only motivation is money is it ok to kill? Someone else also made another good point. If your only motivation is money and you put your self in a place where you might kill someone innocent (not someone trying to kill you) is that ok?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
