ViperPilot 0 #1 July 22, 2005 I was wondering how you all felt about the British government's and police handling of this last attack and the 7 Jul one. Are their investigations, releasing photos to the public, etc. helping a lot, or barely helping at all? This morning they chased down a suspected bomber and shot him dead...I say good. What do you think? I'd be really interested to hear what all of you Brits out there think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caz 0 #2 July 22, 2005 http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1189947,00.html should possibly be taken into consideration when you vote. specifically: >>"Officers were confronted with the very real possibility that this man did have a bomb." >>Initial examinations though, said Brunt, did not discover any explosives on the suspect. an innocent fare-dodger or a real suicide bomber? will we ever know? ~~~ London Skydivers ~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #3 July 22, 2005 I guess we may never know, but the simple fact that they had beyond reasonable doubt that this guy might have a bomb, and given the last 2 weeks, I'd put a bullet in him too (now five...sounds like Brits can't shoot) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #4 July 22, 2005 beyond reasonable doubt that the guy *might* have a bomb? That's scary. beyond reasonable doubt the guy DID have a bomb is a different story. 5 bullets, point blank range while the guy was on the ground and subdued? I think the police have some 'splaining to do. I'm NOT saying they were wrong, I'm saying they need to explain their actions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #5 July 22, 2005 QuoteI was wondering how you all felt about the British government's and police handling of this last attack and the 7 Jul one. Are their investigations, releasing photos to the public, etc. helping a lot, or barely helping at all? This morning they chased down a suspected bomber and shot him dead...I say good. What do you think? I'd be really interested to hear what all of you Brits out there think. Lowest quality poll. You ever saw any Brit/European asking such a nonsense? Clap-trap. Clap-trap. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #6 July 22, 2005 QuoteI guess we may never know, but the simple fact that they had beyond reasonable doubt that this guy might have a bomb, and given the last 2 weeks, I'd put a bullet in him too (now five...sounds like Brits can't shoot) According to the news, 1 warning shot 4 in target, Now if you belive someone is wearing a bomb an all you've got is a pissy little 9mm you going to trust 1 shot, I dont think so. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #7 July 22, 2005 I was just giving them a hard time. Yeah, if I had a crappy little 9mm, I'd shoot a few times too. That's why atleast .40 is the way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #8 July 22, 2005 Why is it so crappy? I guess I was more aiming to seeing how people thought about the shooting. Because I can almost guarantee had a similar thing happened in America, this poll would be going the complete opposite way. Even Americans would denounce cops for doing this. Just wondering if the same would happen in Europe. The answer is no...at least for now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #9 July 22, 2005 Quotebeyond reasonable doubt that the guy *might* have a bomb? That's scary. beyond reasonable doubt the guy DID have a bomb is a different story. that's where you don't get it. i mean that...you don't get it. if the guy DID have a bomb, we'd have more dead police officers and civilians. you're monday-morning-quarterbacking the situation. hind sight is 20/20. need i go on?"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #10 July 22, 2005 uh-oh!! she thinks your poll is downright terrible!! you had better remove it immediately!! i knew we had a repost police but now we seem to have a post police too!! QuoteEven Americans would denounce cops for doing this. not this one. "Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #11 July 22, 2005 >beyond reasonable doubt that the guy *might* have a bomb? That's scary. The same thing would have happened here in the US had someone even pretended to try to hijack a plane after 9/11. Everyone over there is very, very nervous right now. Does that make everything they do right? No, but it's what will happen for a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #12 July 22, 2005 I can understand the whole 5 shot thing, the police had to assume he had a bomb he could detonate, if he wasn't dead then there was still a chance he could have detonated it and kill everyone on the carriage. Granted, it could have been a better shot but hey, we're English. Better to put 5 shots in him than one and the train go up. Also, I wondered at first why the held him down and shot him but if you imagine the situation, guy running into train stood up, you don't want to be putting rounds into the carriage with people behind the guy. Still, we'll have to wait and see what info comes out. On the photo thing, I think I just heard on the news that they've arrested one person, seems like it might be working. One thing I was wondering, if the guy was being followed, how did they let him reach the train? If your following a suspect bomber and he starts walking towards a train station, you wouldn't let him make it all the way to the train would you? I dunno. Just my 2p. ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #13 July 22, 2005 I do get it. I'm not denouncing their actions or Monday morning quarterbacking. BUT, an explanation is owed and there should be an inquiry. There's a huge difference between beyond reasonable doubt the guy *might* have had a bomb (what he said) and beyond reasonable doubt the guy DID have a bomb. (hopefully what the police in London had) That's what YOU aren't getting. Its not the "beyond reasonable doubt" part that's scary, its the word "might". Using that logic, any person of mid eastern descent carrying a back pack or wearing a jacket in the summer walking near a subway station can be shot. I hope AND believe the police in London had a bit more than that. Need I go on???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #14 July 22, 2005 QuoteThere's a huge difference between beyond reasonable doubt the guy *might* have had a bomb (what you said) and beyond reasonable doubt the guy DID have a bomb. no, there isn't. there's no difference in the situation when the police have every reason to believe that someone has a bomb and is going to use it, whether that person has one or not. that's what you're not getting. in any given situation, you act based on the knowledge that you have at the time. QuoteUsing that logic, any person of mid eastern descent carrying a back pack or wearing a jacket in the summer walking near a subway station can be shot no, any person of mid eastern descent carrying a back pack or wearing a jacket in the summer walking near a subway station that is refusing to obey police and running towards a subway train can be shot. fixed."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #15 July 22, 2005 Yeah....that guy wasn't Middle Eastern was he? I completely agree. I'd much rather see the police shoot a person wearing a coat in the summertime, carrying a backpack, running away from the police toward a subway than to know that the police watched him run onto the subway and blow it up. Absolutely.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #16 July 22, 2005 You really don't get it, and you're not even reading my complete post- just cutting and pasting what suits your purpose. In actual fact, I said pretty much exactly what you said. If the police had every reason to believe the guy had a bomb, their actions were justified. When you toss in the word "might" things get a little muddy. That's what you apparently are NOT getting. Regardless, I'm done with this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #17 July 22, 2005 okay professor, tell me, what's the difference between: your words: every reason to believe and my words: might? ie. we believe he has a bomb or, he might have a bomb. i believe that these might be synonymous in this situation. "Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #18 July 22, 2005 >we believe he has a bomb or, he might have a bomb. i believe that > these might be synonymous in this situation. If you saw a strange man, you could safely conclude he _might_ want to kill you. Indeed, until you know better, any stranger _might_ want to kill you, almost by definition. That, however, is insufficient reason to draw a weapon and kill him. If you did that you would go to jail for a long, long time. Now, if you have good reasons to believe that he wants to kill you (i.e. he has broken into your house, is holding a knife, has said "You're dead, rich houseowner!" and was running at you) then that's very different. If you were to kill that person, you would likely be faced with no more than a bunch of paperwork and police questioning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #19 July 22, 2005 On the 5 shot thing... I was just giving you English a bad time. But yeah, I'd put several rounds in this guy. The only true guy who takes one shot is the sniper. Anyone else, like me, I like a few more...just in case . QuoteIf your following a suspect bomber and he starts walking towards a train station, you wouldn't let him make it all the way to the train would you? Makes complete sense. Some guy starts acting suspicious on your flight (lets say), you're not just going to sit there and say, "ok, lets just see where he's going with this one." Next thing you know...well, you don't know...because you're non-existent as the plane's wreckage is falling to the earth. Yeah, I'd say the cops did the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #20 July 22, 2005 yeah, ok, i can buy that."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #21 July 22, 2005 Some people are taking about reason to kill. I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure, but I would think the police already had some intel on this guy, and the fact that he was running away from them, scared (as in he's scared that they know about him/his plan, whatever it may be), and into a train station. That seems beyond reasonable doubt that something is wrong and this guy needs to be stopped, now. Better to stop him then to watch him just run into a train and kill a 100 people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #22 July 22, 2005 Hang on people, this is all getting a bit too wierd! Nearly everyone is agreeing with each other!! Lock this thread before it gets out of control, for the love of God will somebody think about Speakers Corner!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #23 July 22, 2005 It's two weeks after the initial terrorist attacks. They've identified all four bombers, found their car and forensic evidence contained within it, found further evidence in their houses, linked them to a chemist arrested in Egipt and are tracking down links to others still at large. 1 day after the attempts yesterday, they've arrested 3 people in connection with the explosions, shot another linked who they suspected to be running onto a packed train carrying a bomb and have footage of all 4 out there in the public domain for people to ID. That sounds like pretty damn good going to me. Knowing the British public these guys will be fingered from their mug shots pretty quickly too. Crimewatch (a uk program) gets a much smaller audience than these photo's must be getting and they're exceptionally sucsessful at identifying people from photo's like those now released. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #24 July 22, 2005 Dropoutdave has a point. What have I done!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #25 July 22, 2005 RUN AWAY!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
