WrongWay 0 #1 July 20, 2005 I have never been a man of faith. I do not believe in the Bible. I do not believe Jesus was the son of any God. For a long time, I claimed not to believe in God, but somewhere deep down I thought a bit differently. I thought God existed, but just didn't care. I thought every person had a set destiny, a path chosen by God from beginning to end. Maybe not the small things, but that each person was put here for one big purpose. But now, I believe that either there never was a God, or the God I knew is dead. Let's face it people, we live in a Godless world. We're not meant to do anything important as individuals. No matter what we accomplish, in 100 years we'll be forgotten and our ideas will be obsolete. Trains gave way to automobiles, automobiles to planes, and planes to spacecraft. The simple telephone line evolved into faster lines, the internet, wireless technology, video phones, and network video conferencing. The point is, we die, and progress keeps moving here. We're forgotten, left to rot in the ground, and if you're lucky, your name might be remembered by your great grandchild at best. On top of that, innocents die by the hundred thousand every day. Every time we wake up in the morning and have our coffee before we go on with our pointless everyday lives, there are people suffering, starving, being shot or blown to pieces, being oppressed by a dictator or group, pushed into slavery or hiding because of religious beliefs or the color of their skin. It's pathetic, really. But even more perplexing is not the question of "how" we should do something about it, as much as "why" we should do something about it. As terrible as it sounds, humans ourselves are the primary destroyer of our planet. Look what we've done.....the ozone layer, demolishing thousand year old forests for a parking lot that will be there for 50 years, killing off other species for money for their hides, oil spills, air pollution by automobiles. Humans are parasites, using up all the resources in one area and then moving on to the next. And let's look at religion itself, shall we? Religions were made to hate other religions. The most common rule is "Believe what I do, worship my God, or die and burn in hell.". In Christianity, it was the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the burning of those who practice Wicca, the list goes on and on. Today, we have people flying planes into our buildings and blowing up subways and for what? Their God. Kill all those who are unbelievers, and if you can't kill them, do all you can to convert them, as they are unfit for any Heaven if they are different from yourself. If God did create Earth, then this is not what he planned. If this is God's plan, I don't want it. I wouldn't want to be neighbors with someone who planned such an ill fate for the human race, let alone worship him. So I'm giving God the benefit of the doubt, and declaring him officially dead. At least this way, we would all have the same excuse for doing the things we do. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #2 July 20, 2005 Where do you get hope?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,092 #3 July 20, 2005 >Where do you get hope? Why do you need God for hope? You can hope your life is a full one without a supernatural guy pulling the strings. You can see the inherent goodness in others and not have to believe it was injected into him by a supreme being. You can marvel at the near-lightspeed plasma jets coming out of a spinning black hole even if you believe that physics, rather than God, put them there. God does a lot of good for a lot of people. Semi-atheists (Buddhists for example) and atheists can get the same good from their beliefs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #4 July 20, 2005 It was question. I personally don't view God as a noun. I see it as a great flow, where action/reaction is pretty fundamental (...pun intended). Oh, and I keep my cooler close by at all times...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #5 July 20, 2005 Which God did you know? When did your learn about "His" dead? I'm not that big believer, just wanna know dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #6 July 20, 2005 I suggest to read books by Lee Strobel. Case for Christ, Case for Faith, Case for a Creator. In your case, start with Case for a Creator may be something you may relate to. Unless, you read the intro (at least) in Case for a Creator, you won't know why I suggest it. That's all. Gary Calhoun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #7 July 20, 2005 Jason, Lately I have been staying out of religious debates because I have found them futile. However, I hear something different when I read your post. Have you noticed that all those terrible things that are happening are being caused by humans who think they have all the answers. If there is a god (as you know I believe there is), don't you think he is much wiser and greater than all us pea-brains that grace this earth for maybe a 100 years? Have you ever asked God what you can do for Him rather than looking out for what God should do for you (credit to Pres. Kennedy)? It amazes me how many people these days are so impressed with their own perceived intelligence and/or wisdom to honestly believe they have God and the existence of, all figured out. What I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #8 July 20, 2005 Quote What I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. How about a bigger cooler instead?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #9 July 20, 2005 It amazes me how many people these days are so impressed with their own perceived intelligence and/or wisdom to honestly believe they have God and the existence of, all figured out. What I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. What else baffles me is how some people feel the need to prove to others that there is or is not a God. Why does it matter to one person what another person believes? Why do people think that their thinking is so superior to the next person's that they will vehemently argue for something that they cannot prove or validate except through their own processes? I do believe, but I think it's probably more rational not to. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #10 July 20, 2005 Quote QuoteWhat I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. How about a bigger cooler instead? And more toga parties. Toga! Toga! Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #11 July 20, 2005 QuoteWhat else baffles me is how some people feel the need to prove to others that there is or is not a God. Why does it matter to one person what another person believes? Why do people think that their thinking is so superior to the next person's that they will vehemently argue for something that they cannot prove or validate except through their own processes? If you're directing that at me, I don't get it. I'm not trying to ram my belief down anyone's throat. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #12 July 20, 2005 Someone's been reading Nietzsche I see.... Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #13 July 20, 2005 QuoteIf God did create Earth, then this is not what he planned. Jason, this I think is the most likely sentence in your entire (interesting) rant. For me, that comment speaks to the issue of things: free will. A will to decide what we do, both as a global species and as individuals. A will to make things better, worse, or find the balance. A will to determine just how we are perceived in this world. Honestly? I have no hope of being remembered after I'm dead. It doesn't matter to me that much if I am, and, having no children, it doesn't look like it's going to matter to them, either. Spirituality, however, is vastly different from religion, and the difference needs to be understood. Spirituality is not a set of rules made by man to be followed by man; it is not an embodiment of a God who says: "kill these people because I said so." Spirituality is a deeper understanding of things unseen and unknown, things that lay just beyond our consciousness and un/sub consciousness, that let us know what is right, and what is wrong. A full understanding of spirituality takes years to come to. And takes even more years to internalize, and to be of inherent value to ourselves. I'm not anywhere near understanding things as well - and as inherently - as I'd like, but what little I do understand has come not from looking outward, but looking inward and seeing the expanse and enormity that is the universe sitting in my heart. I think God exists. I think that free will exists. And thus the mortal conflict you describe. And it is up to us as individuals to influence ourselves as a global species towards what is inherently right...but that can't be done until we know what's inherently right in our own little (enormous) universe. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #14 July 20, 2005 QuoteQuote What I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. How about a bigger cooler instead? What good is a bigger cooler without more beer?illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #15 July 20, 2005 Everyone need to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #16 July 20, 2005 QuoteA full understanding of spirituality takes years to come to. And takes even more years to internalize, and to be of inherent value to ourselves. This is a very true statement. What I have found personally is there are many times when the understanding of spirituality is so slow it seems like a trickle (a very dry period, a time of personal challenge) and then at other times it floods you (a time of great consolation). It really is a very cool journey. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #17 July 20, 2005 Chris--I was NOT directing that at you at all, and it wasn't intended to be mean-spirited in any way. When I read what you said, then that's what I thought. That's all. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #18 July 20, 2005 QuoteIf God did create Earth, then this is not what he planned. If this is God's plan, I don't want it. I wouldn't want to be neighbors with someone who planned such an ill fate for the human race, let alone worship him. Now you are getting into the area of free will. If we have free will, then humans can choose to destroy the planet regardless of the existence of God. If we don't have free will, then how can anyone be held responsible for their actions, since it is all part of the plan (including pondering this issue itself)? I think the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything is much closer to what religions teach than what atheists teach (not the number 42). For once I would like to hear of a religion that admits it doesn't have everything figured out yet. I suppose some of the eastern religions are this way. I found the book The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra to be VERY interesting. The following is a summary description of the book: First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. Even Werner Heisenberg (of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle) wrote a book somewhat similar to this. Very interesting reading my friend. Maybe you'll have some free time at Lackland AFB to read it?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #19 July 21, 2005 QuoteJason, Lately I have been staying out of religious debates because I have found them futile. However, I hear something different when I read your post. Have you noticed that all those terrible things that are happening are being caused by humans who think they have all the answers. If there is a god (as you know I believe there is), don't you think he is much wiser and greater than all us pea-brains that grace this earth for maybe a 100 years? Have you ever asked God what you can do for Him rather than looking out for what God should do for you (credit to Pres. Kennedy)? It amazes me how many people these days are so impressed with their own perceived intelligence and/or wisdom to honestly believe they have God and the existence of, all figured out. What I think mankind needs is a real dose of humility. ___________________________________ Like you, I run like hell, from 'debates' on God and politics. For what it is worth, you just made a damned good point!!! Hear, hear! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #20 July 21, 2005 Note - Fritjof Capra is a high energy physicist. It is fascinating to me how such people that are not thought of as being interested in religion can become so fascinated when they see the parallels.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #21 July 21, 2005 God gives us choice that was his plan, they world is the way it is because the choices mankind has made, sin entered our hearts we began to destroy shit, one day we will have destryed everything Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #22 July 21, 2005 I'm not reading your post right now because of the length and my lack of time, but I wanted to write that it doesn't matter what you believe in or don't believe in, if you are a good person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #23 July 21, 2005 QuoteSomeone's been reading Nietzsche I see.... Um...what's that? Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #24 July 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteSomeone's been reading Nietzsche I see.... Um...what's that? Nietzche wrote Thus Spake Zarathustra, which famously includes the lines: "The old gods are dead, they all died laughing, the day one grim old beard of a god stood up and said 'thou shalt have no other gods before me.'" Interestingly, Frank Yerby later spun off of this for the title of his The Old Gods Laugh, which is a personal favorite of mine.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #25 July 21, 2005 Quote For me, that comment speaks to the issue of things: free will. Well put. Free will is one of the ultimate unknowns to our species. In the great flow of things, it's the source of action/reaction in all of our lives. Now, let's see, where's my cooler? Ah, there it is...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
