Women and the vote

[narcimund 0]

The nineteenth amendment gave women the right to vote.

Good thing or bad thing?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[tbrown 26]

What, are you SERIOUS ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[SkydivingNurse 0]

End Suffrage Now!
Watching that skit on the Man Show, sad and funny at the same time.
BTW~no vote, just because. Because it's a ridiculous question.

[narcimund 0]

Why is it ridiculous to ask the question?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[SkydivingNurse 0]

I don't know, maybe because it's one of our most fundamental rights?
I'd be more interested in a vote to see how many people would go for Robert Heinlein's idea ala Starship Troopers (the book not the movie). The only people allowed to vote would be people that have served in the military. If you haven't read the book, I'd suggest buying a copy. RH made an interesting argument for that idea.
And before anyone asks: No, I wouldn't be in favor of it.

[happythoughts 0]

In England, they have a Queen. Is she going to be pissed about this, or what?

[narcimund 0]

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I don't know, maybe because it's one of our most fundamental rights?

Apparently 33% don't agree with you.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kbordson 8]

OK.... so here's your opportunity to logically explain why you feel that you, as a male, are more competent to determine which president should be elected. You posted this debate.... give your reasons.

Otherwise, I should just assume that you're trying to start something just for the sake of the battle. Not that there's anything wrong with practicing debate - but you have to be able to defend your stance. So defend.

I'll begin my stance with a speech from a few years back....

On Women's Right to Vote
by Susan B. Anthony
1872
Philadelphia, PA
Susan B. Anthony delivered this address when she illegally cast a vote during the 1872 presidential elections. Her vote was illegal because women did not have the right to vote at the time.

Friends and fellow citizens: I stand before you tonight under indictment for the alleged crime of having voted at the last presidential election, without having a lawful right to vote. It shall be my work this evening to prove to you that in thus voting, I not only committed no crime, but, instead, simply exercised my citizen's rights, guaranteed to me and all United States citizens by the National Constitution, beyond the power of any state to deny.

The preamble of the Federal Constitution says:

We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
It was we, the people; not we, the white male citizens; nor yet we, the male citizens; but we, the whole people, who formed the Union. And we formed it, not to give the blessings of liberty, but to secure them; not to the half of ourselves and the half of our posterity, but to the whole people - women as well as men. And it is a downright mockery to talk to women of their enjoyment of the blessings of liberty while they are denied the use of the only means of securing them provided by this democratic-republican government -- the ballot.
For any state to make sex a qualification that must ever result in the disfranchisement of one entire half of the people, is to pass a bill of attainder, or, an ex post facto law, and is therefore a violation of the supreme law of the land. By it the blessings of liberty are forever withheld from women and their female posterity.

To them this government has no just powers derived from the consent of the governed. To them this government is not a democracy. It is not a republic. It is an odious aristocracy; a hateful oligarchy of sex; the most hateful aristocracy ever established on the face of the globe; an oligarchy of wealth, where the rich govern the poor. An oligarchy of learning, where the educated govern the ignorant, or even an oligarchy of race, where the Saxon rules the African, might be endured; but this oligarchy of sex, which makes father, brothers, husband, sons, the oligarchs over the mother and sisters, the wife and daughters, of every household - which ordains all men sovereigns, all women subjects, carries dissension, discord, and rebellion into every home of the nation. Webster, Worcester, and Bouvier all define a citizen to be a person in the United States, entitled to vote and hold office.

The only question left to be settled now is: Are women persons? And I hardly believe any of our opponents will have the hardihood to say they are not. Being persons, then, women are citizens; and no state has a right to make any law, or to enforce any old law, that shall abridge their privileges or immunities. Hence, every discrimination against women in the constitutions and laws of the several states is today null and void, precisely as is every one against Negroes.

Karen

[narcimund 0]

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OK.... so here's your opportunity to logically explain why you feel that you, as a male, are more competent to determine which president should be elected. You posted this debate.... give your reasons.

You're making wild assumptions about me. Shouldn't you be directing the challenge at the 33% who're voting against your position?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[GravityGirl 0]

I would imagine that 33% are being sarcastic, because this is an asinine question.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[kbordson 8]

Ah... might be assumptions, but you presented the poll. So either you feel that women shouldn't or (as I stated) you just want to debate for the the sake of the argument. Either way, you should stil have a response to defend whichever position you chose to stand.

edit cuz fingers too fast

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Ah... might be assumptions, but you presented the poll. So either you feel that women shouldn't or (as I stated) you just want to debate for the the sake of the argument. Either way, you should stil have a response to defend whichever position you chose to stand.

edit cuz fingers too fast

I think he sorta wishes he hadn't started this thread.

[narcimund 0]

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I think he sorta wishes he hadn't started this thread.

Not at all -- yet more assumptions. You guys sure do love to talk about the messenger instead of the message.

Maybe all of the 33% are answering facetiously. I'm not as sure as you guys are. I wish I'd posted this on a weekday so there'd be even more votes.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I think he sorta wishes he hadn't started this thread.

Not at all -- yet more assumptions. You guys sure do love to talk about the messenger instead of the message.

Maybe all of the 33% are answering facetiously. I'm not as sure as you guys are. I wish I'd posted this on a weekday so there'd be even more votes.

Since there is no apparent message, what did you expect?

[Zenister 0]

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because this is an asinine question.

wow.. i guess few have ever heard of the Socratic method?

no question is asinine.. accepting what is is asinine, if you cant defend why something is the way it is, or why you believe it is/should be that way then perhaps you need to reevaluate.....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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Since there is no apparent message

there is totally an apparent message, but obviously people need to work more on their critical thinking skills to perceive it..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Since there is no apparent message

there is totally an apparent message, but obviously people need to work more on their critical thinking skills to perceive it..

OK, apparently there is so little intrest in the message, that it's not worth thinking about.

[Zenister 0]

well that may be true.. there arent many here who are interested in actual discussion, they simply want reinforcement of their existing beliefs..therefore anything that challenges that belief is classified as 'uninteresting' or 'arsinine'

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[ladyskydiver 0]

I seriously hope you're joking, Narci!

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[narcimund 0]

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I seriously hope you're joking, Narci!

What's the joke? I asked what people think. Aren't the results interesting?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kbordson 8]

But... with this bllind poll, we don't know the reliablity of the results. As one stated before, some could be sarcastic, some could be joking, some could be truly honest - but not willing to defend their opinion by posting their argument ... thus ruining my fun at the debate. (or maybe scared of the debate - lets see if using the childish "are ya chicken?" might get a debate open)

Karen

[Muenkel 0]

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I would imagine that 33% are being sarcastic, because this is an asinine question.

Exactly. I'm one of the ones who voted no, just to screw up the poll.

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Chris

[narcimund 0]

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Exactly. I'm one of the ones who voted no, just to screw up the poll.

Oh that's an excellent idea. God forbid we should actually learn anything.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Muenkel 0]

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Oh that's an excellent idea. God forbid we should actually learn anything.

Then why don't you tell us what you would like to learn. I just see this as a lame attempt at trolling.

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Chris

[Zenister 0]

if the intent was to create actual debate and defense of an 'unpopular' position it isnt really trolling..

of course since so few are actually interested in debate and chose poll options that they dont really believe (which is certainly a form of trolling) it distorts the real purpose..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.