wmw999 2,587
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jakee 1,595
QuoteI'm sure that would work to some degree. But I think the reason I act the way I do, "right", is that I was taught to live in a christian fashion. And I bet you too. It is hard to have come up in the US without aknowledging that influence to your "moral compass".
True. Though I don't live in the US most people around me (family excluded) would consider themselves Christian, and they would say that society is founded on Christian ideals.
My point is that its a very selective and slimmed down version of Christian ideals that has continuously evolved over the last two millennia into a form that works for us now. Try being a woman in a Christian society 300 years ago and see how much similarity there is. Sure you can say that the basics are still Christian, but what are those basics? Don't kill, don't steal, don't adulterate. Those are the basic tenets of almost all societies around the world today, no matter what the religion.
It is on this basis that I say our society and our own personal moral compass is responsible for what we think of as right and wrong, not the bible.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,595
QuoteYou probably believe John Hancock signed the Declaration of Independence. Why, because there were others who signed and authenticated it such as John Adams and Samuel Adams. These were reliable witnesses to the fact. No one alive today was witness to the fact that they all personally signed this document. However, I believe that they did based on the corroborating evidence.
I would also lean towards believing this, because I myself am capable of signing a piece of paper, and have personally witnessed countless others signing pieces of paper. However no matter how hard my friends and I try we always seem to fall just short of replicating the water into wine trick
.
In all seriousness though this line of discussion has probably reached its end since neither of us will budge, you because you have faith in your convictions, me just because I'm quite stubborn
.
There is something you could do for me though, a while back you (I think it was you) posted a theory called someone or others wager (I forget who's) which basically read 'everyone should believe in god, because if they're right they go to heaven and if they're wrong nothing is lost. When people don't believe in god if they're right they gain nothing, if they're wrong all is lost'.
Anyway, a few people posted the reply 'What if you choose the wrong god, don't you just make him madder?'. As far as I can remember the reply to the question was 'Thats a very juvenile question with an incredibly simple answer.' but I never saw the answer get posted. Could you enlighten me?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
QuoteNo one is born before their time, and no one will die before God wants them to
So, in your opinion, God killed 50+ people in London on July 7?
illegible usually
No God didnt kill them. Murderous Islamic people killed them. And the Nazis killed millions....and so did the Americans....and so did the French...and so did the Japanese....and so on and so on.
The comments making life like " lets make a deal" shows the lack of knowledge and understanding of just about everything.
The Muslim Qur'an states: "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends, Slay the idolators ( non mulims) wherever you find them, Fight against such as believe not in Allah ( Surah 5:5, 9:5-29-41).
Though most muslims would shrink from carrying out those commands, this IS official Islam, and according to Muslim laws, cannot be changed without admitting Mohammed was a false prophet and a murderer.....which he was.
Don't blame God for the work of Satan.
The comments making life like " lets make a deal" shows the lack of knowledge and understanding of just about everything.
The Muslim Qur'an states: "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends, Slay the idolators ( non mulims) wherever you find them, Fight against such as believe not in Allah ( Surah 5:5, 9:5-29-41).
Though most muslims would shrink from carrying out those commands, this IS official Islam, and according to Muslim laws, cannot be changed without admitting Mohammed was a false prophet and a murderer.....which he was.
Don't blame God for the work of Satan.
billvon 3,116
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>Don't blame God for the work of Satan.
If God is truly omnipotent, Satan acts only as God allows him to act, as does everything else in the universe.
If God is truly omnipotent, Satan acts only as God allows him to act, as does everything else in the universe.
madscape 0
QuoteThe Muslim Qur'an states: "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends, Slay the idolators ( non mulims) wherever you find them, Fight against such as believe not in Allah ( Surah 5:5, 9:5-29-41)..
The Christian Bible states:
Quote"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
"Glass houses...."
Zenister 0
Quote>Don't blame God for the work of Satan.
If God is truly omnipotent, Satan acts only as God allows him to act, as does everything else in the universe.
exactly.. what Christians often fail to realize about their religion, is IF their mythos are true, Lucifer fell because God wanted him to... and everything since has happened exactly as planned...
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
br0k3n 0
QuoteQuote... those who are willing to believe anything their religion tells them with no evidence at all...
I think in general people are only "willing" to believe such things with "no evidence at all" when those things pretty much go along with their own underlying beliefs.
For example, I expect that if "his religion" told a devout christian in the USA that child molestation was a good thing, he'd be unlikely to accept that on blind faith.
Tom, you’ve hit the nail square on the head here. It is proven the people have an underlying belief system; there are beliefs that have been programmed in over time that people are willing to except without question, and despite the complete lack of evidence or proof.
Belief in psychics, mediums, dowsing, crop circles, acupuncture, homeopathic remedies, gods, spirits, the Devil and Angels to name but a few….
Why is this, why do we as human beings in this day and age, still have this biological disposition?
One Theory is that we use belief to create a model of that part of the world we cannot sense simply because our senses have limitations. For instance, I believe my house is where I left it before I came to work this morning. I can’t sense it in any fashion, but in order to efficiently find my home after I leave work tonight, my brain has to create an internal “map” composed entirely of belief and independent of my senses. Without this, my senses alone are inadequate when it comes to finding my home. My belief “knows” where it is though my senses have no clue that it currently exists.
Ask true believers of any faith to describe the most important thing that drives their devotion, and they'll tell you it's not a thing at all but a sense-a feeling of a higher power far beyond us
Understood in this way, belief is seen as an important and necessary way of sensing the world. If the brain’s primary function is to assist in our survival (and it is), something like belief’s tendency to extend our senses serves a biological purpose. In short, belief enhances our tendency to survive, and as such it will form neurologic patterns that prove remarkably resistant to change.
Also I think that we as human choose a particular belief because it serves a purpose and promotes an emotional response, or caters to a particular need..
As an example, as children in we are programmed to believe in Santa Claus, we are led to believe that once a year on the 25th Dec a chubby guy, with a white beard and a red suit, will descend our chimneys and deposits lots of goodies for us under our Xmas tree..
As children we never questioned this, we never asked for evidence, why?? Because we wanted Santa to be real, it gives us as children hope, and something to look forward to. If he was not real then we wouldn’t receive any presents.
But as adults we don’t believe in Santa any more, why?? Because it serves no purpose, we know where the presents come from…
However lets replace Santa with God, people believe unequivocally because for one it gives them hope, it comforts them in the knowledge that when we die, it’s not all over. We will simply go to anther place and live on happily…
The key difference here is that with Santa once we reach a particular age, we no longer really care about getting presents at Christmas, or we realise what is actually happening.... and are happy to change our belief structure.
However with God, people are desperate to prove and show that he is real, to confirm their belief to discover once and for all that there is a life after death, I think this is what it ultimately boils down to.
The mere thought that once we die that is it, for eternity is simply to great a concept for our human brains to comprehend, and therefore we have evolved in a way to counteract this realisation.
Dean Hamer has written a book called ‘The God Gene - How Faith is Hard Wired into our Genes'.
Hamer studied 2,000 DNA samples. He interviewed 2,000 people extensively (226 questions in each interview). The questions, among other things, looked at how spiritual a person is and what their level of faith in god is.
He found that the VMAT2 Gene was significantly more common among people who believed in a higher spiritual being. According to his research, whether or not your upbringing is religious has no bearing on how religious you turn out to be - but the presence of the VMAT2 Gene version does.
Whether or not this is the key to religious belief will be debated for years, but I do think it hold a great deal of credibility. Does your dog believe in God, do the lions in the jungle or the fish in the sea, are animals self aware and know what death means, no and therefore do you think they believe in a God? Whilst I can prove this I would guess that they do not believe in God as they have no need for a God, in the same way we adults have no need for Santa Claus…..
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
Sure, even the first four Commandments help to foster a healthy society, if you look at thier Truths, not Facts.
1) Believe in something that fosters hope and faith (I call him God, you can call it whatever you want "The Force, Chi" whatever, point is its healthy to have faith.
2) Dont stray from it (false Gods), keep your faith.
3) Dont swear
4) Dont work your life away, rest once a week.
Its all how you interpret it. All I was saying from my last post was that if you can avoid literal translations, the idea of the Ten Commandments and what they represent, does create a decent framework for peaceful coexistence in society.
There will always be people who disagree, and people can read whatever they want from the Commandments and say they infringe on freedom of speech, and thats cool. Its all how each of us chooses to focus our energies (for positive or negative results) that determines how we view things.
--
My other ride is a RESERVE.
1) Believe in something that fosters hope and faith (I call him God, you can call it whatever you want "The Force, Chi" whatever, point is its healthy to have faith.
2) Dont stray from it (false Gods), keep your faith.
3) Dont swear
4) Dont work your life away, rest once a week.
Its all how you interpret it. All I was saying from my last post was that if you can avoid literal translations, the idea of the Ten Commandments and what they represent, does create a decent framework for peaceful coexistence in society.
There will always be people who disagree, and people can read whatever they want from the Commandments and say they infringe on freedom of speech, and thats cool. Its all how each of us chooses to focus our energies (for positive or negative results) that determines how we view things.
--
My other ride is a RESERVE.
pajarito 0
QuoteThere is something you could do for me though, a while back you (I think it was you) posted a theory called someone or others wager (I forget who's) which basically read 'everyone should believe in god, because if they're right they go to heaven and if they're wrong nothing is lost. When people don't believe in god if they're right they gain nothing, if they're wrong all is lost'.
Anyway, a few people posted the reply 'What if you choose the wrong god, don't you just make him madder?'. As far as I can remember the reply to the question was 'Thats a very juvenile question with an incredibly simple answer.' but I never saw the answer get posted. Could you enlighten me?
Here it is. However, I don’t think I was the one who posted it in the discussion you mentioned.
Pascal's Wager
The argument that believing in God is the most logical thing to do since if there is a God and you deny him, then you are in trouble. If there is no god and you accept him, there is no problem because it doesn't matter. Logically, it is better to not deny that God exists than to deny he does. There is truth to this argument, but the problem is that it does not define which "god" to believe in since in many religions, believing in a different god brings a punishing judgment. Nevertheless, this does not excuse a person from at least trying to discover if there is a God or not and who He might be.
Theological Dictionary, P – R
I don’t buy into this one entirely because it’s too simple. Worshiping the wrong god is as futile as not worshiping a god at all. Although, it’s a start.
beowulf 1
But everyones god is the "True God".
Each religion has their own reasons for why they worship the "True God". They reasons are varied and tend to make no sense at all.
Each religion has their own reasons for why they worship the "True God". They reasons are varied and tend to make no sense at all.
pajarito 0
QuoteBut everyones god is the "True God".
Each religion has their own reasons for why they worship the "True God". They reasons are varied and tend to make no sense at all.
There's only one answer to a problem. There's usually different ways to reach the answer the result is the same. However, in the case of Christianity, the framework has been laid out for you. The information has been presented to you and the scope has been narrowed to only one equation. You've got to choose how you want to work the problem.
beowulf 1
usually there is more then one answer to any given problem.
It has been my opinion that God is an idea that was thought up by men wanting to exert control over other men and also to explain what they don't understand.
Just because Christianity is wildly popular doesn't make it "The" religion.
It has been my opinion that God is an idea that was thought up by men wanting to exert control over other men and also to explain what they don't understand.
Just because Christianity is wildly popular doesn't make it "The" religion.
That would be "hedging your bets"
the logic is sound but IF there is a god, would it really accept belief based on the most logical choice as sincere worship?
the logic is sound but IF there is a god, would it really accept belief based on the most logical choice as sincere worship?
illegible usually
pajarito 0
QuoteThat would be "hedging your bets"
the logic is sound but IF there is a god, would it really accept belief based on the most logical choice as sincere worship?
I don't know. That would require one to peer into the mind of God. Like I said, I don't buy into it entirely b/c it's too simple. That's just me. But, hey, if it works for someone else...great!
pajarito 0
Quoteusually there is more then one answer to any given problem.
More than one answer?
QuoteIt has been my opinion that God is an idea that was thought up by men wanting to exert control over other men and also to explain what they don't understand.
Just because Christianity is wildly popular doesn't make it "The" religion.
And that is your well stated opinion.
rasmack 0
Since people have started throwing around quotes, I think it is in order to remember what Laplace answered Napoleon, when he asked why there was no mention of God in his new book on Astronomy:
And I tend to agree with EricTheRed that the christian deity might not accept the Pascal way of worship.
QuoteI have no need of that hypothesis. ("Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse")
And I tend to agree with EricTheRed that the christian deity might not accept the Pascal way of worship.
HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...
pajarito 0
QuoteAnd I tend to agree with EricTheRed that the christian deity might not accept the Pascal way of worship.
I believe there has to be a heart-felt acceptance between you & God alone and not just a casual one with minimal sincerity.
rasmack 0
QuoteI believe there has to be a heart-felt acceptance between you & God alone and not just a casual one with minimal sincerity.
I understood as much from your previous posts, and I of course respect that. I just think it is healthy to have these two references both mentioned when one is brought up.
HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...
jakee 1,595
QuoteHere it is. However, I don’t think I was the one who posted it in the discussion you mentioned.
Fair enough, it just popped into my head and I couldn't remember all of the details. Thanks for looking it up.
BTW, here's a quote I quite like, though I realise it can be interpreted in several different ways.
QuoteYet they count their lot happier than that of others who groan over field labour, sweat over house-building, or hazard their own and other men's fortunes in the hope of profit and the fear of loss. Unafraid of anything that man or god can do the them, they have reached a state that few human beings can attain: for these men are so well content that they do not even need to pray for anything.
Tacitus, Germania, 46
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Quote
Jesus thinks you're a jerk.
So, you spoke with Jesus today? But, did he see the post in it's entire context?
We are all engines of karma
madscape 0
No, that was "Jesus", (pronounced "Hey-Zeus") the Mexican guy who works at the bank.
Bob Barker was the host. Yes, it's a VERY American cultural reference
Wendy W.
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