Gravitymaster 0 #1 July 14, 2005 Support for bin Laden falls in Muslim countries By Alan Elsner Thu Jul 14, 2:10 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Support for Osama bin Laden and suicide bombings have fallen sharply in much of the Muslim world, according to a multicountry poll released on Thursday. ADVERTISEMENT The survey by the Pew Research Center examined public opinion in six predominantly Muslim nations: Morocco, Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan and Lebanon. It also examined views in nine North American and European countries as well as in India and China. In all, more than 17,000 people were questioned either by telephone of face-to-face. "There's declining support for terrorism in the Muslim countries and support for Osama bin Laden is declining. There's also less support for suicide bombings," said Pew Center director Andrew Kohut. "This is good news, but still there are substantial numbers who support bin Laden in some of these countries," he told a news conference. In Morocco, 26 percent of the public now say they have a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down from 49 percent in a similar poll two years ago. In Lebanon, where both Muslims and Christians took part in the survey, only 2 percent expressed some confidence in the Saudi-born al Qaeda leader, down from 14 percent in 2003. In Turkey, bin Laden's support has fallen to 7 percent from 15 percent in the past two years. In Indonesia, it has dropped to 35 percent from 58 percent. However, in Jordan, confidence in bin Laden, who took responsibility for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and many other attacks, rose to 60 percent from 55 percent. In Pakistan, it went to 51 percent from 45 percent. A similar picture emerged when respondents were asked whether suicide bombings were justifiable. In Morocco, 13 percent said they often or sometimes could be justified, down from 40 percent in 2004. MORE JORDANIANS SUPPORT BOMBINGS In Indonesia, 15 percent expressed that view, down from 27 percent in the summer of 2002. Support for suicide bombings also fell in Pakistan and dropped dramatically in Lebanon. However, support rose in Jordan, to 57 percent from 43 percent in 2002. Kohut noted there had been devastating attacks on civilians in Indonesia, Morocco and Turkey in recent years and a rash of assassinations and bombings recently in Lebanon. Both in western countries and the Muslim world, respondents expressed fears about Islamic extremism. Seventy-three percent in Morocco and 52 percent in Pakistan saw Islamic extremism as a threat to their country. The figure was 84 percent in Russia, 78 percent in Germany, and an identical 70 percent in Britain and the United States. The poll was taken well before last week's bombings in London. When asked what caused Islamic extremism, 40 percent in Lebanon and 38 percent in Jordan blamed U.S. policies and influence; in Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey, respondents were more likely to blame poverty, unemployment or poor education. Despite terrorism fears, majorities in Britain, the United States, France, Canada and Russia and pluralities in Spain and Poland expressed favorable views about Muslims. But in Germany and the Netherlands, opinion swung to an unfavorable view. Fifty-one percent of those surveyed in the Netherlands expressed an unfavorable view of Muslims. In Germany, 47 percent were unfavorable, compared with 40 percent who expressed favorable views. Anti-Jewish sentiment was overwhelming in the Muslim countries. In Lebanon, 100 percent of Muslims and 99 percent of Christians said they had a very unfavorable view of Jews, while 99 percent of Jordanians also viewed Jews very unfavorably. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 July 15, 2005 Cute, but stupid. I don't know anyone in this country that voted for Bin Laden, but I know quite a few people that voted for President Bush.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #3 July 15, 2005 Yes, it must be true, given that news report is coming out of Washington. Given that Western Europe just experienced it's first round of suicide bombers last week, in the name of Al Qaeda, i find this article almost completely pointless to be honest. Even if support amongst marginals is down as the article claims, those aren't the sorts of people we care about. It's the handful of extremists who will never swerve from his word that we should focus on. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #4 July 15, 2005 QuoteCute, but stupid. I don't know anyone in this country that voted for Bin Laden, but I know quite a few people that voted for President Bush. Thats not why I posted it. You think the fact that Bin Laden is losing support is stupid? Maybe I should post something that bashes Bush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #5 July 15, 2005 QuoteYes, it must be true, given that news report is coming out of Washington. It's a poll done by the Pew Research Center, not something coming out of Washinton. What do you have against Pew? Given that Western Europe just experienced it's first round of suicide bombers last week, in the name of Al Qaeda, i find this article almost completely pointless to be honest.Quote Actually, I think it's very pertinent. It may indicate that people in Arab Countries are getting tired of all the violence. QuoteEven if support amongst marginals is down as the article claims, those aren't the sorts of people we care about. It's the handful of extremists who will never swerve from his word that we should focus on. The key to winning the war on terror is winning over Muslim countries. The people are the ones who know who the terrorists are and where they hide their bomb making materials and where their Safe Houses are. You don't think thats important? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #6 July 15, 2005 Osama died in December '01 accoreding to an Egyptian death certificate. He had some kidney problems ya know and dialysis is kind of tough to find in the mountains what with the power disruptions from all those bombings ,dontcha' know. So why would you expect support for a dead man to rise? I would congradulate the US for immortalizing Osama! He's been dead for four years and still he is the face of evil personified, the poster child of TERROR. Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #7 July 15, 2005 Want to show us factual evidence about that one? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd sure like to see non-ludicrous evidence showing Osama is dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #8 July 15, 2005 Quote Osama died in December '01 accoreding to an Egyptian death certificate. He had some kidney problems ya know and dialysis is kind of tough to find in the mountains what with the power disruptions from all those bombings ,dontcha' know. So why would you expect support for a dead man to rise? I would congradulate the US for immortalizing Osama! He's been dead for four years and still he is the face of evil personified, the poster child of TERROR. Blues, Cliff I don't think the issue is whether OBL is dead or alive. Hopefully the drop in his support is an indication of a drop in support for the radical ideology he represents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #9 July 15, 2005 QuoteWant to show us factual evidence about that one? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd sure like to see non-ludicrous evidence showing Osama is dead. __________________________________________________ Hey Guy, You are the one killing people in the war on terror whose main target was Osama after the WTC bombings. Seems your CIChimp could provide you some proof he's alive and sa threat. But wait,.. no one ever really bothered to prove that any arab had anything to do with the collapse of the Twinn towers, did they? DID THEY? You are over there fighting the "Terrorists" and killing and maiming innocent "collaterals". Do you have any proof that Osama is alive or that he had anything to do with 9-11? I can show you proof that he was a CIA operative. I can't show you any documents terminating that arrangement. Can you? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 July 15, 2005 Quote You think the fact that Bin Laden is losing support is stupid? Actually, I'm a bit surprised it is as high as it is. However, the article IS stupid in that it draws some wierd parallel between Bin Laden's and Bush's polling numbers. The two are -completely- unrelated. It's not like if Bin Ladens numbers drop to 0.1% he gets booted out and we win. That's just not how it works! You don't really need a lot of support to be a terrorist. Certainly not in the range given in the article. Consider if only 0.1% of the population of the U.S. supported a terrorist organization and of that group only 0.1% actively participated in it. That would "only" be roughly 300,000 people supporting 300 active terrorists. It only took about 20 to pull off the attacks of September 11. Face it, if Bin Laden's polling numbers are as high as suggested in the article, we're still quite screwed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #11 July 15, 2005 It only took about 20 to pull off the attacks of September 11. __________________________________________________ Of those twenty 7 have been confirmed as "alive and kickin' ". Don't know why the FBI hasn't taken their names and pics off the "official "website. One thing is certain though.., If the FBI is wrong in it's list of hijacking terrorists that day, we are wrong to assume that it was muslims(al-queida) who are responsible for that incident. Anyone have any evidence that it was Arabs? Anyone? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #12 July 15, 2005 QuoteOsama died in December '01 accoreding to an Egyptian death certificate. Who's the guy in the video's then? QuoteOf those twenty 7 have been confirmed as "alive and kickin' ". Show me. Cos it aint half odd how there's footage of them boarding the planes and then the planes flew into buildings. Most folk here knew all about how it's not possible to pull a DB Cooper these days... how come you don't? QuoteAnyone have any evidence that it was Arabs? Cockpit voice recordings. Passenger phone calls from Flight 93. Both corroborated by CCTV of them boarding the flights. Similar thing for the London bombings - the police have CCTV footage of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #13 July 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteOsama died in December '01 accoreding to an Egyptian death certificate. Who's the guy in the video's then? __________________________________________________ You mean the broad nosed black guy? I don't know who he is but it ain't Osama. __________________________________________________ QuoteOf those twenty 7 have been confirmed as "alive and kickin' ". Show me. Cos it aint half odd how there's footage of them boarding the planes and then the planes flew into buildings. __________________________________________________ Oh? Have you seen footage of the "hijackers" boarding the planes? This is a very interesting development!!!! Can you direct us to this footage? One thing that is certain.., seven of the accused are alive. They must not have been on those planes. Blues, Cliff PS ; about those passenger phone calls, talk to Bill Von. Seems he was working on a system to make cell phone calls from jumbo jets possible at sometime after 9-11. BUT IT COULD BE THAT HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT!!!! Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #14 July 15, 2005 QuoteBUT IT COULD BE THAT HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT!!!! Calling a moderator full of shit? haha - bye. QuoteOne thing that is certain.., seven of the accused are alive. Show me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eaglenrider 0 #15 July 15, 2005 Calling a moderator full of shit? haha - bye. __________________________________________________ Hello ,Hello, I don't know why you say good bye when I say hello. QuoteOne thing that is certain.., seven of the accused are alive. Show me. __________________________________________________ You mean you don't know? Nearly 4 years later and you haven't done the research? You don't know that seven are confirmed alive? You know ,mr2mk1g, Freedom comes at a price. The price is that citizens must stay informed and participate. Don't try to cop out that you are a Brit . What happens here does have a direct effect on the UK. Shame on you for believing the government story without conducting your own independant research. Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 July 15, 2005 QuoteBUT IT COULD BE THAT HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT!!!! Calling a moderator full of shit? haha - bye. QuoteOne thing that is certain.., seven of the accused are alive. Show me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #15 July 15, 2005 Calling a moderator full of shit? haha - bye. __________________________________________________ Hello ,Hello, I don't know why you say good bye when I say hello. QuoteOne thing that is certain.., seven of the accused are alive. Show me. __________________________________________________ You mean you don't know? Nearly 4 years later and you haven't done the research? You don't know that seven are confirmed alive? You know ,mr2mk1g, Freedom comes at a price. The price is that citizens must stay informed and participate. Don't try to cop out that you are a Brit . What happens here does have a direct effect on the UK. Shame on you for believing the government story without conducting your own independant research. Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #16 July 15, 2005 Show me... before a mod sees you posts and bans you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #17 July 15, 2005 QuoteShow me... before a mod sees you posts and bans you. __________________________________________________ Why would they ban me? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #19 July 15, 2005 QuoteShow me. __________________________________________________ I could provide you all kinds of links but you'ld just want to argue about the sourc. Look, it is a fact. Even the director of the FBI has acknowledged that some of the "hijackers" on the list are alive and kickin'. You're a big boy. Do your own research. I've placed the carrot in front of your nose. Walk down the path. And hey.., what about that wager? You said you were willing to bet I wasn't one of those "skydivers". Will you wager $40.00 ? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #20 July 15, 2005 QuoteI could provide you all kinds of links But you won't. Know what that says about your credibility? Quoteyou'ld just want to argue about the sourc Well if they're simply links to "mad-boy bob's bonkers ramblings page" then yeah I'd probably take issue with the credibility of the info... as any intelligent person would. QuoteEven the director of the FBI has acknowledged that some of the "hijackers" on the list are alive and kickin'. Show me. QuoteAnd hey.., what about that wager? As I'm sure you'll recall, the wager wasn't with you but with Errol. So sure, in the spirit of openness I'll stick a jump ticket on Errol's account at his DZ. Simply post verifiable proof you're a jumper and tell us where you jump and the jump ticket's all his. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #21 July 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteI could provide you all kinds of links But you won't. Know what that says about your credibility? __________________________________________________ I'm not concerned about my "credibility". Do you want to remain ignorant of the facts? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eaglenrider 0 #22 July 15, 2005 QuoteAnd hey.., what about that wager? As I'm sure you'll recall, the wager wasn't with you but with Errol. So sure, in the spirit of openness I'll stick a jump ticket on Errol's account at his DZ. Simply post verifiable proof you're a jumper and tell us where you jump and the jump ticket's all his. __________________________________________________ Oh. So you are waffling now. Before you were so certain I didn't even jump that you would put money on it. Now when I ask you to bet with me you jabber and blow. So do you think I skyjump or no,lawyer guy? Ready to put up some bucks? How about $500 US? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eaglenrider 0 #22 July 15, 2005 QuoteAnd hey.., what about that wager? As I'm sure you'll recall, the wager wasn't with you but with Errol. So sure, in the spirit of openness I'll stick a jump ticket on Errol's account at his DZ. Simply post verifiable proof you're a jumper and tell us where you jump and the jump ticket's all his. __________________________________________________ Oh. So you are waffling now. Before you were so certain I didn't even jump that you would put money on it. Now when I ask you to bet with me you jabber and blow. So do you think I skyjump or no,lawyer guy? Ready to put up some bucks? How about $500 US? Blues, Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #23 July 15, 2005 QuoteI'm not concerned about my "credibility". You should be concerned about your credibility if you want anyone here to take anything you say seriously. You apparently have important info which could turn our views about our governments upside down... yet you refuse to back up you wild claims or post any proof. If you really gave a damn about us believing what you were saying you would give a damn about your credibility. As you're "not concerned" about your credibility we must conclude you do not care if we believe you or not. As such we can see you don't really care if you message gets through at all. Thus your motives for posting are evidently not convincing anyone of the truth of what you say. They must therefore be something else. Such as trolling perhaps. QuoteDo you want to remain ignorant of the facts? No. Show me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #24 July 15, 2005 I smell a troll.... I wouldn't even bother with this guy.... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #25 July 15, 2005 QuoteQuote You think the fact that Bin Laden is losing support is stupid? Actually, I'm a bit surprised it is as high as it is. However, the article IS stupid in that it draws some wierd parallel between Bin Laden's and Bush's polling numbers. The two are -completely- unrelated. It's not like if Bin Ladens numbers drop to 0.1% he gets booted out and we win. That's just not how it works! You don't really need a lot of support to be a terrorist. Certainly not in the range given in the article. Consider if only 0.1% of the population of the U.S. supported a terrorist organization and of that group only 0.1% actively participated in it. That would "only" be roughly 300,000 people supporting 300 active terrorists. It only took about 20 to pull off the attacks of September 11. Face it, if Bin Laden's polling numbers are as high as suggested in the article, we're still quite screwed. The Brits estimate that there were (are) about 200 active IRA terrorists. They managed to keep a terror campaign going (with more financial support from the USA than from Ireland) for 30 years.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
