US Civics Questions

[lawrocket 3]

There's a thread about President Bush's deficits. Here are my questions:

Does the US President pass a budget?

If not, who passes a budget?

Does the President have any authority to spend money or does Congress control purse strings?

My understanding is that a POTUS proposes a budget. Congress then votes whether to pass it. Congress also has the authority to make changes.

In terms of money spent on things, I believe it is Congress alone who controls the purse strings. Sure, the POTUS can set the tone, but it's really Congress who gets this done.

Reagan pushed for tax cuts. The Democratic Congress passed the 1986 Tax Relief Act, right? Reagan signed it.

Clinton proposes budgets. Republican Congress passes the budgets, Clinton signs them, there are surpluses.

Bush, Jr. proposes budgets that operate at a deficit. Congress passes these budgets. Bush signs them.

So, it seems that Congress has the power to say "No" to budgets, which means that Presidents get entirely too much credit and too much blame with regards to budgetary issues.

Am I wrong?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,175]

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There's a thread about President Bush's deficits. Here are my questions:

Does the US President pass a budget?

If not, who passes a budget?

Does the President have any authority to spend money or does Congress control purse strings?

My understanding is that a POTUS proposes a budget. Congress then votes whether to pass it. Congress also has the authority to make changes.

In terms of money spent on things, I believe it is Congress alone who controls the purse strings. Sure, the POTUS can set the tone, but it's really Congress who gets this done.

Reagan pushed for tax cuts. The Democratic Congress passed the 1986 Tax Relief Act, right? Reagan signed it.

Clinton proposes budgets. Republican Congress passes the budgets, Clinton signs them, there are surpluses.

Bush, Jr. proposes budgets that operate at a deficit. Congress passes these budgets. Bush signs them.

So, it seems that Congress has the power to say "No" to budgets, which means that Presidents get entirely too much credit and too much blame with regards to budgetary issues.

Am I wrong?

If a building falls down, the architect takes the blame, not the bricklayer.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tcnelson 1]

i think congress should take a wee bit more responsibility than a bricklayer in the scheme of things kallend. it's their job to say yea or nay in the budget game. the bricklayer doesn't have the same power now does he/she...

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kallend 2,175]

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i think congress should take a wee bit more responsibility than a bricklayer in the scheme of things kallend. it's their job to say yea or nay in the budget game. the bricklayer doesn't have the same power now does he/she...

OK, which party has control of both houses of Congress?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tcnelson 1]

so you think it's the puppet master's fault heh?

i think the members of congress wouldn't like to be called puppets.

you're saying that the elected reps are incompetent?

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[lawrocket 3]

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If a building falls down, the architect takes the blame, not the bricklayer.

True. The architect plans it. The Architect signs off on it, too.

But -

Contractors take the blame
Bricklayers take the blame
The structural engineers take the blame.
Even terrorirsts get blamed.

All these people take the blame. The architect is the top dog.

Also, kallend, Congress deserves more blame and more credit that it gets. It's why I'll say that Rostenkowski is as much responsible for implementing Reaganomics as Reagan was.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,175]

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so you think it's the puppet master's fault heh?

i think the members of congress wouldn't like to be called puppets.

you're saying that the elected reps are incompetent?

I have met quite a number of US Senators and a couple of Congressmen. I think they are quite competent at manipulation. When it comes to leadership I'm not so sure.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tcnelson 1]

yes, we can definitely agree that politicians will always be politicians.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kelpdiver 2]

Is this elementary school civics, or are we going to talk about how it really works?

The President drives the process, particularly when his party controls both chambers of Congress. BTW, the Senate was GOP controlled in 1986.

How does Congress say "no" to a budget? It's not like you write one of these up in a weekend of work. Instead they make incremental changes to the submitted proposal, adding or removing funding for key items. And there's lots of gamesmanship - submit a budget without items you know the other side will insist on putting in. California does that to the tee- putting items that should be funded by taxes onto the ballot as a bond initiative.

You also left out the tax hike passed by the Democrats before losing power in 1994. Just might have something to do with the surplus.

[ViperPilot 0]

Regardless of which party is in control, it's Congress who ultimately decides/approves the budget. So if you don't like it, blame Congress, not the President.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Regardless of which party is in control, it's Congress who ultimately decides/approves the budget. So if you don't like it, blame Congress, not the President.

Does not the President *ultimately* approve the budget by signing it?

[tcnelson 1]

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Does not the President *ultimately* approve the budget by signing it?

the only reason the pres would sign it is if it were written into law. i don't think budgets are law so, i think the congress just votes it up or down and that's the end of it.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kallend 2,175]

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Does not the President *ultimately* approve the budget by signing it?

the only reason the pres would sign it is if it were written into law. i don't think budgets are law so, i think the congress just votes it up or down and that's the end of it.

www.house.gov/rules_bud/annual.htm

The budget ends up as appropriations and spending bills, which the President can sign or send back.

"Since the President's signature is ultimately required to implement spending, policy and revenue actions, the Congress ignores the President's priorities at the peril of losing out on its own."

So the final word belongs to the Prez.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tcnelson 1]

and there you have it.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[lawrocket 3]

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"Since the President's signature is ultimately required to implement spending, policy and revenue actions, the Congress ignores the President's priorities at the peril of losing out on its own."

So the final word belongs to the Prez.

So, this says that Congress won't get it's pork unless the POTUS gets his pork, eh? That phrase "spending priorities" is kinda neat, ain't it?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,175]

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"Since the President's signature is ultimately required to implement spending, policy and revenue actions, the Congress ignores the President's priorities at the peril of losing out on its own."

So the final word belongs to the Prez.

So, this says that Congress won't get it's pork unless the POTUS gets his pork, eh? That phrase "spending priorities" is kinda neat, ain't it?

Don't blame me, I didn't make the rules.

Are you aware that Republican administrations run deficits that are on average, nearly 3 times larger then Democratic, over the last 50 years? The trend has got worse since the neo-cons took over. Despite their rhetoric, Republicans are far bigger spenders than Democrats.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ViperPilot 0]

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"Since the President's signature is ultimately required to implement spending, policy and revenue actions, the Congress ignores the President's priorities at the peril of losing out on its own."

Well, I stand corrected, just blame both. Either way, it's not right to just blame the president for a budget you (not specifically you Kallend) don't like. Congress had a big hand in it, the President has his hand in it. So blame should be spread around, not just directed at one man.

[rehmwa 2]

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Are you aware that Republican administrations run deficits that are on average, nearly 3 times larger then Democratic, over the last 50 years? The trend has got worse since the neo-cons took over. Despite their rhetoric, Republicans are far bigger spenders than Democrats.

Is this a "spending more" effect or a "taxing less" effect?

Starve the Beast is a good policy. But get Congress to reduce spending is hard to do - what with all the votes they need to buy from the right and the left.

What do you want - tax and spend then tax and spend even more next year? or borrow and spend then (hopefully) borrow less and spend less next year?

The tough part is finding ways to force less spending, not finding more to tax. Bloat is bad.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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What do you want - tax and spend then tax and spend even more next year? or borrow and spend then (hopefully) borrow less and spend less next year?

Tax and spend is preferable to borrow and spend just as much. If the GOP really stood for their less government claim, all the better.

I hope they hold the line against extending SS taxes to full incomes, because that's just more money for them to blow on pork or wars.

[rehmwa 2]

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If the GOP really stood for their less government claim, all the better.

The key word there is "really" - for me, I just don't see a difference in dem or rep politicians - their job is to spend and anyone genuine comes in and REALLY wants to cut spending would likely be poisoned in the Congress cafeteria. As long as they spend money any way they get it (tax or borrow), that's the job security.

As far as SS - let me keep my FICA, I can manage it better.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Zep 0]

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If a building falls down, the architect takes the blame, not the bricklayer.

Maybe in your world, but not in mine,
If a building falls down the architect has his ass coverd ten ways to christmas.

Gone fishing