US Airforce: Oh, alright terrorists you win

[mr2mk1g 10]

I must admit I'm rather annoyed by this.

Bush encourages Londoners to go back to work as normal. Blair says London's open for business as usual. Livingstone urges people to carry on as normal and use the public transport as usual. The bus and tube networks are back up and running inside of 24 hours. 7 million Londoners get back to their lives undaunted.

And yet at the same time the US military bans 10,000 troops from entering London for fear they'll be caught up in an attack. Evidently the stoicism for which Brits and Londoners in particular are world renowned does not extend to our guests in this country.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1412734.htm

[Tonto 1]

I gotta admit that's kinda funny.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Newbie 0]

Let's face it - to a certain degree we are having to face reality here - if we don't go back to work, the effect of the attack is worsened - both financially for the country and psychologically for us, as well as giving a boost to the group responsible in terms of heightening the fall out effect of the attack.

Does that mean we are expendable while the US troops based nearby are not? To a degree yes. While we are quick to praise the emergency personnel as heroes, that rush into danger to rescue those trapped by the attacks (and rightfully so, they are heroes), we often seem to forget that those who will get "straight back on the horse" so to speak, and ride the buses and tubes the next day so they may get into work, knowing full well there could be another bomb or attack of some kind deserve praise as heroes too.
Does that mean we should be angry at the report in that ABC story? Perhaps, but i can understand it, especially from a military perspective (assess the threat before moving into a potential conflict zone).
If it is an ongoing order, i will be pretty pissed though - fair enough, decree no London based travel in the immediate aftermath, while the threat is assessed, but have it go on too long, and it certainly won't inspire much in the way of ongoing faith (is there any anyway) in our so called leaders, who tell one thing to one group, and a different thing to another.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Skyrad 0]

Damn! You beat me to it!! yea, so much for standing shoulder to shoulder with America. America is right behind us alright, about fifty miles behind us on the other side of the M25 cowering in their bases whilst little old ladies walk the streets that they fear to tread. All London is laughing at these 'brave warriors'. Shame on them.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

It is an on going order, as we write this the US embasy has told LBC radio that the order still stands. What about our firemen who went to New York after 9/11 to help the American people? Did they say 'screw that its to dangerous?' No they went.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mr2mk1g 10]

I think it's currently "under review" as of this morning because of the fury with which it's been attacked in the papers. One has to wonder how long it would have been in place without review if the news agencies hadn't caught wind of it though.

IMO, yes it's and understandable stance to take in the way's Newbie outlines... but overall it is totally reprehensible. It sends out completely the wrong message. It says to terrorists that they won. The message is clear - bomb places and US troops won't be allowed to go there because it's too scary for them or for the citizens back home.

It was a stupid decision to make.

[Newbie 0]

I think this is wrong, but i don't think it's right to blame the indians for the decisions made by the chiefs.

I'm sure there are many men and women in those barracks and bases thinking they would rather be walking the streets of London side by side with us, than having to be held back, looking sorry for themselves, because of some ongoing/under review/non disclosed/threat assessment situational analysis being made by the top brass, and would like the opportunity to be able to stand proud with us in London, but are being constrained from doing so.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[jumper03 0]

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It was a stupid decision to make.

I whole heartedly agree.

I'll come into London any day, any time. We do still stand with you.

(Not all of us over here are morons.)

Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[wmw999 2,589]

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Not all of us over here are morons.

Easy for YOU to say -- you went to MIT
If that's an ongoing order, it's one of the silliest I ever heard. Hopefully it's not, and even more hopefully it's just the Air Force, and not tourists, and people who come over to study and help.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Newbie 0]

It's not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4673987.stm

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[mr2mk1g 10]

Just to clarify, I certainly don't blame any Indians. It is the decision I think is wrong, not the people to whom the decision applies.

Nor, for that matter do I even blame the Head Chief - I'm sure he had nothing to do with the decision in question and I have no doubt that he himself is probably spitting bullets right now that some nitwit military commander issued the order in the first place.

(Probably not the thread for it but I came up with a name for the Head Chief Indian... "Big Chief Smirking Bush". )

[Ron 10]

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Damn! You beat me to it!! yea, so much for standing shoulder to shoulder with America. America is right behind us alright, about fifty miles behind us on the other side of the M25 cowering in their bases whilst little old ladies walk the streets that they fear to tread. All London is laughing at these 'brave warriors'. Shame on them.

It is pretty common to "close up" right after an attack nearby. This is normal and smart.

The soldiers were told not to go to London. They still did their jobs.

The soldiers didn't "fear to tread". They were told not to go. They followed orders. The orders were normal protocal.

From what I have been told they have already been lifted.

Most people if smart would not walk into the lions mouth unless they had to.

Shame on you for slamming people who did their jobs and followed orders.

Shame on you for jumping all over people without all the info.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tcnelson 1]

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What about our firemen who went to New York after 9/11 to help the American people? Did they say 'screw that its to dangerous?' No they went.

yeah, and you could be speaking german right now. how soon we forget.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[chuckbrown 0]

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I must admit I'm rather annoyed by this.

Bush encourages Londoners to go back to work as normal. Blair says London's open for business as usual. Livingstone urges people to carry on as normal and use the public transport as usual. The bus and tube networks are back up and running inside of 24 hours. 7 million Londoners get back to their lives undaunted.

And yet at the same time the US military bans 10,000 troops from entering London for fear they'll be caught up in an attack. Evidently the stoicism for which Brits and Londoners in particular are world renowned does not extend to our guests in this country.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1412734.htm

I agree it doesn't play well in the court of public opinion, but the reason for the order was to keep additional targets out of London. US servicemen/women have been frequent targets of terrorists, and right now terrorists are engaged in active operations in London. I'm glad military leaders are issuing orders based on sound military considerations rather than what looks good politically.
I'd also speculate that this order was issued in full consultation and agreement with the UK military command. The US & the UK are about as close as two separate national militaries can get.

[kallend 2,151]

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What about our firemen who went to New York after 9/11 to help the American people? Did they say 'screw that its to dangerous?' No they went.

yeah, and you could be speaking german right now. how soon we forget.

And you could be speaking French.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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yeah, and you could be speaking german right now. how soon we forget.

Operation Sea Lion was canned more than a year before the US even entered the war. A better knowledge of history and you'd know what that meant without having to google it.

[freethefly 6]

US President George W Bush says the London bombings demonstrate the importance of fighting terrorists in Iraq.


Had they(the Coalition) not invaded Irag, under false pretense or any other pretense, the bombing most likely would not had happened and US military personnel would still be visiting London. I suppose that the same can be said here in the US of future attacks that are sure to come. Martial Law is, most likely, somewhere in our future as sleeper cells are activated around the globe. To believe that these people cannot shut us down is foolish. They constantly demonstrate their ability to blend in and adapt to the enviroment in which they operate. Much like openning Pandora's Box there is now a much heavier price to pay and we will be paying long after Bush and Blair are gone.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[tcnelson 1]

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What about our firemen who went to New York after 9/11 to help the American people? Did they say 'screw that its to dangerous?' No they went.

yeah, and you could be speaking german right now. how soon we forget.

And you could be speaking French.

or we all could be speaking latin.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kallend 2,151]

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Quote

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What about our firemen who went to New York after 9/11 to help the American people? Did they say 'screw that its to dangerous?' No they went.

yeah, and you could be speaking german right now. how soon we forget.

And you could be speaking French.

or we all could be speaking latin.

Not a problem - I had 5 years of Latin in school.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tcnelson 1]

if you don't realize that all of europe, including england, was bailed out by america during world war 2 then i can be of no help to you...history knowledge or otherwise.

sea lion never went off and still, britain looked like swiss cheese but you're right, the english were doin' just fine!!

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[tcnelson 1]

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Quote

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What about our firemen who went to New York after 9/11 to help the American people? Did they say 'screw that its to dangerous?' No they went.

yeah, and you could be speaking german right now. how soon we forget.

And you could be speaking French.

or we all could be speaking latin.

Not a problem - I had 5 years of Latin in school.

i had five years of spanish so hopefully mexico gets their crap together and invades before the french or ancient romans.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[tcnelson 1]

Quote

US President George W Bush says the London bombings demonstrate the importance of fighting terrorists in Iraq.


Had they(the Coalition) not invaded Irag, under false pretense or any other pretense, the bombing most likely would not had happened and US military personnel would still be visiting London. I suppose that the same can be said here in the US of future attacks that are sure to come. Martial Law is, most likely, somewhere in our future as sleeper cells are activated around the globe. To believe that these people cannot shut us down is foolish. They constantly demonstrate their ability to blend in and adapt to the enviroment in which they operate. Much like openning Pandora's Box there is now a much heavier price to pay and we will be paying long after Bush and Blair are gone.

to think that western societies would not be attacked unless the invasion of iraq happened is not only foolish, it's shows a failure to pay attention to what has happened over the last half century regarding terrorist activity. america and many other democracy-based nations have been attacked repeatedly by terrorists over the past 30 years for any number of societal and political reasons.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[SpeedRacer 1]

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It's not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4673987.stm

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

Just putting this back up again. It seems some of y'all missed it, because you're arguing as if the rule was still in place.

Speed Racer
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[markd_nscr986 0]

It DOES send a mixed message

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[mr2mk1g 10]

You are doing little else but demonstraiting a complete lack of knowledge about WWII in general.

Germany was beaten by the Russians, not by anyone this side of the Rhine. The Russians accounted for 80% of German losses... the Western Allies accounted for a mere 700,000 or so kills compaired to the Soviet total of going on 3 million.

In addition to this, Germany could never have mounted or sustained an invasion of the UK - go read up on the results of the exercises conducted by Sandhurst in relation to Operation Sea Lion and note the outcomes... and note the fact their exercises by nescesity ignored the massive naval superiority enjoyed by the RN and assumed a zero RAF presence.