undocumented workers

[waltappel 1]

Somewhat related to some recent discussions here. It is politically incorrect to an extreme and NSFW, but makes me laugh painfully hard.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=141863&messageid=1120448172

Walt

[JohnRich 4]

Error: "www.network54.com could not be found"

[waltappel 1]

The clicky still works for me. Is anyone else having this problem?

Walt

[christelsabine 1]

It's working, can read posts, but have to log in to watch any video ..

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[waltappel 1]

Try this and let me know.

http://www.junkinthetrunk.ca/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=720

Walt

[christelsabine 1]

OK. There was a video. What's funny in it?
I'm an alien, you know. Would you enlighten me?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[waltappel 1]

The video is funny, warped, an outrage and/or racist, depending on your point of view. I have a fairly twisted sense of humor so it had me laughing to the point of hurting.

The video is of a smartass-looking guy in a white pickup who is supposedly at one of those day-laborer camps where undocumented workers hang out waiting for guys in pickups who need some day laborers. He tells them that he needs all of them (6 - 8 or so) and will pay $50/day for them to help him build a deck at his house. Then, instead of taking them to his house, he takes them to the INS, where they scatter immediately, leaving him laughing and giggling like a little kid.

Since you are in Germany you probably need some background information to really understand what is going on.

In the US, particularly the southern US along the border with Mexico, there is an enormous number of people (mostly Mexicans) crossing the border into the US illegally every day, most of them looking for any type of work they can find. They are often referred to as "undocumented workers" but the bottom line is that they are in the US illegally and subject to deportation if caught.

Many of them hang out at designated day labor areas, where people will come hire them to do manual labor. There is a huge, on-going debate in this country because we need to protect our borders to try to keep terrorists out, but the illegal workers are a significant part of the labor force. Additionally, many people are upset because they believe that these illegal workers are taking away jobs from Americans.

Anyway, the smartass guy in the pickup gets a group of illegal workers and takes them to the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) office instead of to a worksite. The INS is the US government agency responsible for enforcing the immigration laws--including the detention and deportation of illegal aliens. Illegal workers live in fear of the INS because they do not want to be deported.

With that background, what the video is showing is very mean-spirited prank.

I don't know that there is anything similar going on in Germany. There is a huge number of Turkish workers in Germany, but I assume most, if not all of them, are there legally. If they were there illegally and someone with a truck picked up a group, promising them work but instead took them to the Federal Foreign Office, I think it would be the equivalent of what the guy in the video did.

Walt

[skydyvr 0]

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OK. There was a video. What's funny in it?

Nothing was funny about it. It was a picture of racist stupidity.

. . =(_8^(1)

[waltappel 1]

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OK. There was a video. What's funny in it?

Nothing was funny about it. It was a picture of racist stupidity.

No question about it being a picture of stupidity and inhumanity, but racist? I'm not so sure. There was the repeated use of the term "beaner", but I saw it as more a case of targeting and victimizing people who are in the country ILLEGALLY. If the group of workers had been a mix of different ethnic backgrounds, the outcome would have been the same.

There is a failure of the US government to control our borders and provide a reasonable program for LEGALLY admitting workers from Mexico. It is, IMO, a serious problem that politicians are very hesitant to address because of a combination of misguided political correctness, fear of bad press, and fear of alienating Hispanic voters. In other words, they are scared of being labeled RACIST.

I don't know that the video is authentic--I suspect it is not--but no matter what the intent of the video is, I hope that in some small way it helps force the issue of the US controlling our borders and providing LEGAL means for legitimate workers to cross the borders.

Would you have been less offended if the scenario had been picking up a bunch of drug dealers and driving them to a police station just for a laugh? After all, many of them come from desperate circumstances and are just trying to make a living.

Your profile says your home is Colorado. A few weeks ago, as you know, a Denver detective was killed and another detective wounded by a guy who had crossed the border from Mexico ILLEGALLY. Was that also a case of racist stupidity?

Walt

[GravityGirl 0]

That's just messed up. How you even think that is funny is beyond me. It left me feeling sick.

You are laughing at people that actually want to work hard to earn money for their families. That's just sick.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[skydyvr 0]

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. . . but racist? I'm not so sure. There was the repeated use of the term "beaner", but I saw it as more a case of targeting and victimizing people who are in the country ILLEGALLY.

Yea, racist.

See it however you'd like, but the jackass driving the truck never used the term "illegal", nor expounded on the issues comprising the border problem we have in the southwest. So you must be interjecting ideas that weren't there.

The jackass was just picking on a bunch of folks less fortunate than he, all of a different race. Were he somewhere else, it might've been some other ethnic group.

What a sack of shit -- not even a little bit funny.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Jimbo 0]

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all of a different race.

All of a different nationality. There are, if I recall correctly, three races and mexican isn't one of them.

Regardless, I didn't see this as about race, but rather as about illegals on US soil.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[waltappel 1]

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That's just messed up. How you even think that is funny is beyond me. It left me feeling sick.

You are laughing at people that actually want to work hard to earn money for their families. That's just sick.

I am laughing at the absolute *absurdity* of the whole thing. I have a difficult time believing that someone would actually do that for real. My reaction to that video is much along the same line as my reaction to some of the cruel humor I see on TV.

Does that make me sick or morally deficient? Maybe, but I don't think so. For years I worked as a nurse and on a daily basis saw things that would indeed sicken and/or depress most people. Developing the ability to laugh in such environments was a survival thing.

Have you done anything to help those "people that actually want to work hard to earn money for their families"? I have. I have seen the looks of desperation on their faces up close and personal. I think that keeping the status quo is wrong and if offensive video helps wake people up, then that is a good thing.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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See it however you'd like, but the jackass driving the truck never used the term "illegal", nor expounded on the issues comprising the border problem we have in the southwest. So you must be interjecting ideas that weren't there.

I don't see the driver as being some sort of deep-thinking activist who is using his behavior as a tool to raise consciousness about the problem, but I do see his behavior as possibly having that effect on people who view the video. So, yes, I'm sure I am interjecting ideas that weren't there.

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The jackass was just picking on a bunch of folks less fortunate than he, all of a different race. Were he somewhere else, it might've been some other ethnic group.

I agree, but if the video angers you to the point of being willing to push representatives to make policy changes or at least vote for those who are willing to drive changes, then he has done a good thing regardless of his intentions.

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What a sack of shit -- not even a little bit funny.

No doubt the video is quite repulsive/offensive to many, but it sure makes me laugh!

Walt

[GravityGirl 0]

I grew up in San Diego. Watched my friends endure being called beeners, wet-backs and spics.

And yes, I've done a few things in my time. Baby sit for women who worked the fields all day. I've spent some days digging ditches and picking fruit myself. Enough to know that I hated it, and feel VERY fortunate for all that I have. Now I do have a tendancy to bring lightly used clothes to that community instead of Goodwill. My Mom used to take us down to TJ to bring blankets, clothing and other items.

Even though I grew up below the poverty level, I never felt poor compared to some of the Mexican Families that work the fields.

Yup. You struck a cord....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[masterrig 1]

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That's just messed up. How you even think that is funny is beyond me. It left me feeling sick.

You are laughing at people that actually want to work hard to earn money for their families. That's just sick.

I am laughing at the absolute *absurdity* of the whole thing. I have a difficult time believing that someone would actually do that for real. My reaction to that video is much along the same line as my reaction to some of the cruel humor I see on TV.

Does that make me sick or morally deficient? Maybe, but I don't think so. For years I worked as a nurse and on a daily basis saw things that would indeed sicken and/or depress most people. Developing the ability to laugh in such environments was a survival thing.

Have you done anything to help those "people that actually want to work hard to earn money for their families"? I have. I have seen the looks of desperation on their faces up close and personal. I think that keeping the status quo is wrong and if offensive video helps wake people up, then that is a good thing.

Walt

______________________________________

I think, Mexico is 'broke' and their govt. wants us to 'fix' it. If, it were just a matter of un-documented workers wanting to work in the fields, it might be a little different. They flood into this country with false birth certificates, driver's licenses and social security cards and head for the northern states for jobs on assembly lines and in factories. I can see folks from other countries coming here to live but, let them do it the right way! Let them go through the process and not just sneak in. This country needs to get a grip on immigration. We're running out of room.

Chuck

[waltappel 1]

There is no question in my mind that the flood of illegals crossing the Mexican border into our country has reached a crisis level.

I have humanitarian concerns, but we simply cannot afford them. The recent G8 decisions to pump a bunch of money into Africa is crazy IMO--I think we'd be a lot better off spending the money on protecting our borders.

I agree that the Mexican government needs to be forced to deal with the country's economic problems.

Walt

[masterrig 1]

The Mexican govt. won't do it! Their president (Fox) wants all the rights and privilages of a U.S. citizen 'bestowed' upon all illegals who enter this country. It appears as though, we are falling right in line with that. I get tired too, of the Washington spin-doctors telling us that they come here and take only the jobs that some U.S. citizent won't take. Bullshit! I think, we need to close our borders. Other countries have done it. With terrorism at the point it is, we really need to take some controls. I know, what it says at the base of the statue of liberty but, that applied to when we could handle an influx of immigrants. Cities are getting bigger and bigger and as a result, we lose thousands of acres of farm and ranchland. We run out of farm and ranchland... who's gonna feed the people! Right now, we have 1% of our population feeding 100% of the population of the U.S.


Chuck

[waltappel 1]

Agreed. According to a recently released statistic, 1 out of every 10 births in (I think) 2002 in the US was by a Mexican mother. This is absolutely outrageous. We are paying a high price for these people who should not be here in the first place.

Fortunately, Congress is being forced into having to deal with the problem. I doubt that they will take adequate measures any time soon, but it's a start.

Specifically, they will be considering whether babies born to illegal immigrants should be denied citizenship. Personally I think it's a no-brainer, but it will probably take a constitutional amendment.

Walt

[masterrig 1]

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Agreed. According to a recently released statistic, 1 out of every 10 births in (I think) 2002 in the US was by a Mexican mother. This is absolutely outrageous. We are paying a high price for these people who should not be here in the first place.

Fortunately, Congress is being forced into having to deal with the problem. I doubt that they will take adequate measures any time soon, but it's a start.

Specifically, they will be considering whether babies born to illegal immigrants should be denied citizenship. Personally I think it's a no-brainer, but it will probably take a constitutional amendment.

Walt

_____________________________________

According to Immigration and Nationality law, anyone born within the United States of America is 'automatically' a U.S. citizen. It's been that way since the first immigration laws were written. Thus, the parents, have an easy route to citizenship. Birth control, is not a part of their culture as the majority are Catholic. So, every 9-months, 15-minutes, there is another birth. To re-itterate, I am not against immigration done legally. I'm against the flood of illegals. As for farm laborers, possibly, bring back the Brazero system. Farm workers were allowed to enter this country and work on farms, orchards and etc. When their work was done, they had to return to Mexico. Another thing that chaps my butt is, we can actually sell U.S. land to foreign buyers. We damned sure can't do that in other countries! We might lease or rent but, BUY? No way. That's another topic.


Chuck

[waltappel 1]

Here is some interesting stuff from http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=2869


The Fourteenth Amendment (1868) has become the key Constitutional issue of the immigration mess. The relevant section reads,

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

The problem is that this has been misinterpreted in recent years to mean simply that anyone born in the U.S, under any circumstances, is an American citizen. This is neither the original intent of the law nor the way it was interpreted by the courts in subsequent decades. Some Americans speak of birthright citizenship as if it were an immutable law of nature. It is not, and most other nations do not, in fact, recognize it. It is only a bad habit that could be broken with a simple Executive Order.


Further, it says...

The key to undoing the current misinterpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment is this odd phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." The whole problem is caused by the fact that the meaning of this phrase, which was clear to anyone versed in legal language in 1868, has slipped with changes in usage. Fortunately, there is a large group of court precedents that make clear what the phrase actually means:

The Fourteenth Amendment excludes the children of aliens. (The Slaughterhouse Cases (83 U.S. 36 (1873))

The Fourteenth Amendment draws a distinction between the children of aliens and children of citizens. (Minor v. Happersett (88 U.S. 162 (1874))
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction" requires "direct and immediate allegiance" to the United States, not just physical presence. (Elk v. Wilkins 112 U.S. 94 (1884))

There is no automatic birthright citizenship in a particular case. (Wong Kim Ark Case, 169 U.S. 649 (1898))

The Supreme Court has never confirmed birthright citizenship for the children of illegal aliens, temporary workers, and tourists. (Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 211 n.10 (1982))

There are other cases referring to minor details of the question.


Walt

[Frenchy68 0]

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The Fourteenth Amendment excludes the children of aliens. (The Slaughterhouse Cases (83 U.S. 36 (1873))

How could that possibly be? The US is a land of immigrants, therefore aliens. How could anyone be a US citizen then?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Ron 10]

I think its funny.

Also I think we need to remove the "Born here automaticly a Citizen" BS.

I know a couple from Egypt that came here for the sole reason to have their child born here in America. The US let them in and WE paid for the birth. They have now left to go back to Egypt. They didn't work here, so they paid no taxes.

So they came in, got a free birth, their child is a US citizen, and have paid ZERO dollars into the economy.

And we let them, and others do it every day.

I am all about legal immigration, but people coming over to just to have their babies born here needs to stop.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[masterrig 1]

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The Fourteenth Amendment excludes the children of aliens. (The Slaughterhouse Cases (83 U.S. 36 (1873))

How could that possibly be? The US is a land of immigrants, therefore aliens. How could anyone be a US citizen then?

________________________________

In that case... EVERYBODY... OUT! C'mon, line forms to the right! You make a good point. The only true and real Americans are the Native Americans or Indians as we have called them for so many years. As a Native American once told me; "Who, do you think tied-up Columbus' boat?" We just out-numbered them, out-powered them and we had 'Manifest Destiny'! That's the way it all played-out. So now, it's ours! We can make the laws and say who can or cannot live here.


Chuck


Chuck

[waltappel 1]

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The Fourteenth Amendment excludes the children of aliens. (The Slaughterhouse Cases (83 U.S. 36 (1873))

How could that possibly be? The US is a land of immigrants, therefore aliens. How could anyone be a US citizen then?

I've read in a couple of places that the original intent of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to former slaves. Since slavery had been going on for a long time, there were multiple generations of these African-Americans that had never been outside of this country.

That is a very different case from someone entering the country ILLEGALLY, having a child, and then not only expecting taxpayers to bear the cost, but to give the child citizenship.

Walt