Gay Marriage?

[johnnyboydan 0]

It's simple. The laws of our land and everone's slse are governed by two maojor things. Bible or Quran or Tora and what is good for the majority. Laws aren't just there when ever some small group wants to make something work for them it has to work for most the majority. It should have nothing to do with who likes who or being gay or not. That fact of the matter is that gays are not the majority. So maybe they should live that life stlye as they please, but why should the majority have to change things for them? i have nothing against gays but I don't think any minority should have laws that are special for them.

johnnyboy

[billvon 3,116]

>Laws aren't just there when ever some small group wants to
>make something work for them . . .

Actually that is one of the primary reasons we have them. The rights of blacks are protected even though they are in the minority. You can't just sentence someone (say, Michael Jackson) to death just because everyone in the country is sick of him. We have laws specifically to protect people like that.

> i have nothing against gays but I don't think any minority should
> have laws that are special for them.

Ageeed. So let any two people get married. Why have special laws for heterosexuals, and different ones for heterosexuals? Let the law treat everyone equally.

[johnnyboydan 0]

Well that's a good debate but the facts are still that most of our laws come from the Bible. And wheather you or I think different the Bible says............

johnnyboy

[billvon 3,116]

>most of our laws come from the Bible.

The bible was used as a reason that blacks should not marry whites. From a judge who defended the Virginia law against interracial marriage:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

We changed that one, even if the Bible wanted us to keep it.

[johnnyboydan 0]

Yes but that was changed because the majority again wanted it. I will agree that it all confusing on why somethings are changed and others aren't. I'm just saying in using the Bible people will have a good solid backdrop for not changing it. Myself I think should all people should live like they want. In other words It's not my business to tell my neighbors how to live. And actually i don't really care about the law either way, not for or against it. But just pointing out that through history people use the Bible to make laws and that makes them hard to change and gives people or they think it gives them the right to not change it.

johnnyboy

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yes but that was changed because the majority again wanted it

We already covered this - 94% were opposed.

[narcimund 0]

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Yes but that was changed because the majority again wanted it.

No. It was changed by "activist judges".

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[rickjump1 0]

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>most of our laws come from the Bible.

The bible was used as a reason that blacks should not marry whites. From a judge who defended the Virginia law against interracial marriage:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

We changed that one, even if the Bible wanted us to keep it.

In the Old Testament, God was so pissed off with the human race, he decided to wipe it off the face of the Earth. He did have a change of heart for one family, when he told Noah to build that boat. The rest of the population was out of luck. Wonder what he will do now.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I think of you as a liberal because all the people who talk about politics the way you do, nowadays, are referred to as liberals. That being said, its difficult for me to understand how liberals can take all of their common sense and throw it in the garbage by making statements like the one you have just made about Christianity here. I mean obviously what you have done here is take an accurate description for Islam and simply replaced it with Christianity, making a totally bogus statement. Somehow liberals have come to believe that making bogus statements as such makes them intellectuals. Go figure.

I don't know very much about Islam. That's why I hardly ever say things about that religion. I know a lot more about Christianity because at a young age people tried to brain-wash me with that religion. As far as I'm concerned, both Christianity and Islam are wrong. They're both based on a book written by humans thousands of years ago as a way to control the masses. If I told you guys that God spoke to me last night, told me to write a book about some rules of life that we must follow otherwise we would burn in hell, then I'm pretty sure you guys would write me off as a nut case. So why were the creators of the bible and the Quran allowed to do the same thing thousands of years ago.

Oh and I am amused that I've been labeled a Liberal because I'm not Christian. Where I come from I always thought I was a conservative. You know, pro business, small government, making sure people are responsible for themselves and not relying on government handouts, etc, etc, etc. But I guess only Christians are capable of wanting those things huh? That's just too funny ... you're killing me ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[jumpergirl 0]

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i have nothing against gays but I don't think any minority should have laws that are special for them.

Ageeed. So let any two people get married. Why have special laws for heterosexuals, and different ones for heterosexuals? Let the law treat everyone equally.

Bill, I'm assuming you meant to say "Why have special laws for heterosexuals, and different ones for homosexuals?"

My reply is in no way directed at any one person, including you, Bill.
I absolutely agree and that was part of my reasoning for my original post. Why is it so different? Why is what one group of people do so damn important to everyone else? What difference does it make? Why can't everyone have the same laws, benefits, and rights? Isn't THAT our right as Americans? Isn't THAT what our Constitution says?

I never made this post intending it to turn into a religious debate. That is a dead horse and is such a waste of time to beat it over and over and over and over and over and over again. I didn't mean it to even be a political debate. Again, another dead horse.

My question is, "Why is what I do and the way I live my life so freaking important to everyone else???"

****Disclaimer, I'm not gay. I'm in a wonderful hetero relationship with a man I love.****

But, in a general sense, I live my life the way I chose. As long as I'm not hurting anyone, why does it matter to someone else WHO I love, whether it's a man or another woman???

[CanuckInUSA 0]

<< censored >>

The original post was deleted by me since I realized I was judging Christianity when I said I wouldn't. Try not to judge those who are different from ourselves.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rickjump1 0]

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In the Old Testament, God was so pissed off with the human race, he decided to wipe it off the face of the Earth. He did have a change of heart for one family, when he told Noah to build that boat. The rest of the population was out of luck. Wonder what he will do now.

I'm still waiting to see the physical evidence of Noah that nobody has been able to provide. Sounds more like a fictional fairly tale to me written by some human many many many moons ago. But I can show you physical evidence that evolution took place right now. You just choose to ignore this evidence because you like fairly tales more.

Since the laws of this country are more or less representative of the Bible and not evolution, I will continue with my own beliefs: what you call fairy tales. I'm happy; you're happy.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[narcimund 0]

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but the facts are still that most of our laws come from the Bible..

Oh really? More formidable men than you disagree:

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Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Zennie 0]

Wouldn't it be funny if lawmakers legalized gay marriage and then forgot to update the divorce laws accordingly?

Doh!

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[sundevil777 102]

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A lot of people don't live the way I choose to live. I don't care. I know I don't live the way some people would like me to live. I don't care. If you're happy, I'm happy. If I'm happy, I would like for you to be happy for me, too, but I don't care if you're not.

Are you OK with incest? I mean when both are adults? What about a father -son or mother -daughter 'marriage'? Most people are repulsed by this, so it should not be a surprise that homosexual relationships are not accepted by many.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,116]

>Yes but that was changed because the majority again wanted it.

No, that's my point. Virginians did NOT want blacks to marry whites, nor did the majority of the country. The Supreme Court decided that, although unpopular, the right to marry could not be denied on the basis of race.

We have three branches of government. Two are elected; one is appointed and is not subject to election. That's the judicial branch. There's a reason they are not elected - they are appointed to interpret laws and the constitution, not to do what's popular. One result of this is that the rights of minorities are protected, even if most people dislike them.

[Ron 10]

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The rules of the church can be changed - it just needs a meeting like that in Nicen or Vatican II. Or better yet get the Pope to declare infalibility which is defined as the word of God being spoken thru the Pope. The Church has built in plenty of loopholes to change things as they feel fit.

So is the Pope God? If not, I don't see how he can change WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

If the Bible says murdering your Father is bad. Then no amount of the Pope saying its OK is going to change that the BIBLE says its bad..

There fore if the Pope says its OK then the Church is no longer following the BIBLE, and threfore is not longer CHRISTIAN.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Either gays have that right, or they don't. It's not a popularity question.

It is when it is on a ballot. And the ones on the ballots have failed.

Also when the activist judges do it, they have gotten over turned.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[bodypilot90 0]

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No. The reason we have our individual rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights is that the masses are not supposed to decide the liberties of the few. This is not an issue that the voters should be deciding.

Marriage is, always has been and always will be a MAN and a WOMEN. just because some extreemist call a duck a eagle, a duck it will always be.

[jumpergirl 0]

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Marriage is, always has been and always will be a MAN and a WOMEN. just because some extreemist call a duck a eagle, a duck it will always be.

I call bullshit. Just because it has always BEEN a man and a woman doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Weren't pot and opium legal once upon a time? Wasn't alcohol illegal at one point? If that can change, they why can't "marriage" change?

Personally, I don't need the ring and certificate to be "married." I can be married in my heart and actions without that. Granted, I can't get on my husbands insurance or receive his death benefits if we aren't married on paper.

I just don't see why I (or any other hetero person) can have something and my gay friend can't have the same thing. We're all PEOPLE! We all want the same things... LOVE, HAPPINESS, SECURITY.

I will forever disagree with banning gay marriage and treating them differently than straight people are treated. It's not right. I know people disagree and will forever AGREE with it. That's fine. We can disagree with eachother and still be friends, right?

[rehmwa 2]

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> they are appointed to interpret laws .

I'll still take a stance that 'interpret' is a crappy word that continually ends up really meaning REinterpret in today's world (take the 9th district court for example).

The supremem court is there to make sure that the lower courts don't MISinterpret the original-intent of laws - thus to uphold the original intent of laws and not let them be abused by clever lawyers using grossly non-applicable semantics and scenarios.

For example - a local judiciary abuses the intent of the eminent domain rule by allowing seizure of private property for business use instead of roads etc. The Supreme Court rightly should put them down and make notice that this isn't the intent of eminent domain.

CRAP!

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Steel 0]

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I think of you as a liberal because all the people who talk about politics the way you do, nowadays, are referred to as liberals. That being said, its difficult for me to understand how liberals can take all of their common sense and throw it in the garbage by making statements like the one you have just made about Christianity here. I mean obviously what you have done here is take an accurate description for Islam and simply replaced it with Christianity, making a totally bogus statement. Somehow liberals have come to believe that making bogus statements as such makes them intellectuals. Go figure.

I don't know very much about Islam. That's why I hardly ever say things about that religion. I know a lot more about Christianity because at a young age people tried to brain-wash me with that religion. As far as I'm concerned, both Christianity and Islam are wrong. They're both based on a book written by humans thousands of years ago as a way to control the masses. If I told you guys that God spoke to me last night, told me to write a book about some rules of life that we must follow otherwise we would burn in hell, then I'm pretty sure you guys would write me off as a nut case. So why were the creators of the bible and the Quran allowed to do the same thing thousands of years ago.

Oh and I am amused that I've been labeled a Liberal because I'm not Christian. Where I come from I always thought I was a conservative. You know, pro business, small government, making sure people are responsible for themselves and not relying on government handouts, etc, etc, etc. But I guess only Christians are capable of wanting those things huh? That's just too funny ... you're killing me ...

As far as all religion being invented to control the masses, I will agree with you on that. However, some religions are obviously doing, and have always done, more harm than good. 9/11, Iraq, the Iranian hostage crisis, U.S.S. Cole, the Abu Ghraib prison {not the B.S. that the liberal media shows with a guy underwear on his head, but the horrific torture that went on there under Saddam Hussein}, the bombing in Madrid last year, or if you want to go back more than a thousand years, when the Moors conquered Spain. So clearly some religions cause more harm than good. But "liberals" love to take common sense and throw it out the window, as you did here by attacking Christianity. For that reason I referred to you as a liberal.

If you really are pro business, small government, making sure people are responsible for themselves and not relying on government handouts, etc, etc, etc., then that is great we agree on that, but I have never seen that side of you from your posts.
Cheers,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[wmw999 2,588]

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So is the Pope God? If not, I don't see how he can change WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

Ron, where does it say that the Christian religion is based on slavishly following every single soemtimes mutually contradictory rule in the Bible?

There are people who believe every word of it, but even they don't generally follow the ones about sacrifice, killing adulterers, and not wearing wool with linen. That doesn't mean that you get to decide they're not Christians.

Of course, their disagreeing with another group's interpretation of what parts of the Bible are important doesn't mean they get to judge either.

I think that's God's job somehow. Sure sounds like an attractive one to a lot of people, though.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bodypilot90 0]

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I know people disagree and will forever AGREE with it. That's fine. We can disagree with eachother and still be friends, right?

yes, while I disagree with comrad Kallend on most things, I don't hate him, or you.

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I call bullshit. Just because it has always BEEN a man and a woman doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Weren't pot and opium legal once upon a time? Wasn't alcohol illegal at one point? If that can change, they why can't "marriage" change?

you could call it what ever you want BUT it is not marriage. AND as a taxpayer and as a small business owner i do not want to give them health benefits because of a farce mariage. A duck is still a duck.....

[jumpergirl 0]

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you could call it what ever you want BUT it is not marriage. AND as a taxpayer and as a small business owner i do not want to give them health benefits because of a farce mariage. A duck is still a duck.....

But my questions is, why is it so important to ban things (such a gay marriage) for some people but make it ok (such as "regular" marriage) for others?

I agree that a couple should not receive benefits if they are in a farce marriage. If it's not a real marriage (ie. with a marriage certificate) then they don't get "real" benefits, whatever those benefits are.

HOWEVER, what damn difference does it make WHO someone loves? Wouldn't it be better to have happy people around you (because they are equals in the world and have the same rights as everyone else) than to have sad, bitter, even angry people around? I know I would much rather be around someone who is happy than anyone who is not.