quade 4 #1 June 25, 2005 http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/25/iraq.main/index.html?section=cnn_topstories Ok, yes I totally understand how the news business works so yeah, it's going to get headlines, but -why-? Why does the average person (in western society at least) value a female life over that of a male?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #2 June 25, 2005 Good damned question. Must be why I am having such trouble in FOC that is run by women. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #3 June 25, 2005 QuoteWhy does the average person (in western society at least) value a female life over that of a male? Can you give other examples of this, Quade? As for the article, I don't think it values women over men. Rather, it talks about several of the men too, and uses the "headline" technique to get readership. The point it does bring up, however, about women being used more in the front lines, is interesting, and does cover a respect for women that this country (finally) shows. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #4 June 25, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhy does the average person (in western society at least) value a female life over that of a male? Can you give other examples of this, Quade? As for the article, I don't think it values women over men. Rather, it talks about several of the men too, and uses the "headline" technique to get readership. The point it does bring up, however, about women being used more in the front lines, is interesting, and does cover a respect for women that this country (finally) shows. Ciels- Michele I certainly agree with your last statement.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #5 June 25, 2005 Flip Answer: Because women are better people. Duh. More thoughtful answer: Because we culturally feel more protective of our women than our men, and of our girls than our boys. We're culturally conditioned to view women as needing more protection than men, and striking at women as more cowardly than striking at men. We also view a large part of our cultural duty as protecting "our" women. I'm sure there are biological, as well as cultural, roots for that kind of thing. And personally, I'm not sure that I think it's necessarily such a bad thing.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #6 June 25, 2005 QuoteFlip Answer: Because women are better people. Duh. More thoughtful answer: Because we culturally feel more protective of our women than our men, and of our girls than our boys. We're culturally conditioned to view women as needing more protection than men, and striking at women as more cowardly than striking at men. We also view a large part of our cultural duty as protecting "our" women. I'm sure there are biological, as well as cultural, roots for that kind of thing. And personally, I'm not sure that I think it's necessarily such a bad thing. I accept the sincerity of what you say and agree with the historical accuracy. However, (you knew that was coming, right?) that protection come with a price that women are increasingly unwilling to pay. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #7 June 25, 2005 Back in the day of brute strength meant power, the idea was valid. Today, when a women can ride in a 50-ton tank and press a button easily as well, it is not as valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 June 25, 2005 Quote Can you give other examples of this, Quade? Well, I don't wanna say, "What? You gotta be kiddin' me?!?", but "What? You gotta be kiddin' me?!?" How many stories and ideals are there in mythology wherein the male hero risks all to save the fair lady? In etiquette wherein the male is supposed to walk on the "street" side of the road to protect the female from traffic. In home defense where it is the male that is "supposed to" investigate the wee small noises that go bump in the night. Come on Michele, certain you must see this.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 June 25, 2005 Yes, Quade, I do see that. I just wasn't sure where you were heading with your question...ie. mythology (which, btw, has very very strong female characters) or in current, 2005 standards (which still may be true, but not nearly as strongly entrenched.) It's clearer to me. I'm just heading out - but I'll be more than happy to discuss this in a bit. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #10 June 26, 2005 QuoteHowever, (you knew that was coming, right?) that protection come with a price that women are increasingly unwilling to pay. So it is a man thing.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #11 June 26, 2005 QuoteMore thoughtful answer: Because we culturally feel more protective of our women than our men, and of our girls than our boys. We're culturally conditioned to view women as needing more protection than men, and striking at women as more cowardly than striking at men. We also view a large part of our cultural duty as protecting "our" women. I'm sure there are biological, as well as cultural, roots for that kind of thing. And personally, I'm not sure that I think it's necessarily such a bad thing. Well, I can agree w/ that, to a point... ever seen a small, weak mother protect her children? I think there is a more forgotten reason why "female" is perceived by some as more "valuable." Women can do something that men cannot... get pregnant, nurture life, give birth. There is nothing more beautiful than that. Objectively, of course, men and women have the same inherent dignity and worth as humans. Your last statement is right on... it ISN'T such a bad thing to protect "our"women, to value our women, to treat them as the crowned jewels of creation that they are. (Hi Michele, miss you!) -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 June 26, 2005 Quoteget pregnant, nurture life, give birth. There is nothing more beautiful than that. While I agree that the whole giving birth thing is amazing to say the least, they could not do so EVER without men. Both sexes are equally important in their own ways. Women are not more valuable then men and visa versa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #13 June 26, 2005 QuoteBack in the day of brute strength meant power, the idea was valid. Today, when a women can ride in a 50-ton tank and press a button easily as well, it is not as valid. Till the tank & all that cool technology breaks. Then she better be prepared to stand toe-to-toe and fight...if she can. Otherwise, she's just going to quickly become a liability to her teammates and probably get some of them killed along with her. The American public better just get used to seeing it if that’s the card they want to play. When you break war down to its lowest common denominator, you have brutal savagery. All the cool technology in the world isn't going to change that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #14 June 26, 2005 Evolutionary psychology explains this very nicely. Women are biologically more valuable because they set the limit on the reproduction rate of the species. One male can sire hundreds of offspring in a year.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #15 June 26, 2005 We look better nekkid...Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #16 June 26, 2005 QuoteWe look better nekkid... out of the mouth of babes... pun intended. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #17 June 27, 2005 QuoteWhen you break war down to its lowest common denominator, you have brutal savagery. Again, we agree. I think women are quite capable of savagery though. I see lionesses at the kill, while the men look on. Humans are more capable of savagery than any species on earth - women included. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 June 27, 2005 In a related story . . . http://www.onthemedia.org/ Scroll to the bottom and check out the story slugged "White Noise". Click on "Listen Now".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #19 June 27, 2005 Your cite is wrong. QuotePresident Andrew Shepherd in 'The American President' It should be the actors name, not "President blah, blah""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #20 June 27, 2005 This issue is simple. The female life is more valuable because of their boobies. Without boobies what would we guys have to play with (besides killing kittens). Save the boobies I say!!! Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #21 June 27, 2005 QuoteToday, when a women can ride in a 50-ton tank and press a button easily as well, it is not as valid. What happens when that tank gets underfire, gets disabled and the women is the only concious one left in the tank, she has to pull 3 of her 200lbs comrades from the tank to save their lives. I'm not saying there aren't women that couldn't do it, since there are women out there that can bench MUCH more then I can, but how do you draw the line on which, who, what size, how strong, etc? Ok, honestly, if they (the military) wanted to give full equality to the sexes, I would have no problem with that. Step 1: no more women's PT scores, its all the higher standard scores for the men. Step 2: No special treatment of any kind in regards to PT standards and height/weight standards.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 June 27, 2005 QuoteWhat happens when that tank gets underfire, gets disabled and the women is the only concious one left in the tank, she has to pull 3 of her 200lbs comrades from the tank to save their lives. I'm not saying there aren't women that couldn't do it, since there are women out there that can bench MUCH more then I can, but how do you draw the line on which, who, what size, how strong, etc? Do they have perfomance requirements for men in a tank? I've never been in one - seems though that the small confines would favor slender men as well as women over 200lb'ers. Aside from the political specter of women dying in combat, there is the fear of their treatment as POWs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #23 June 28, 2005 QuoteIn a related story . . . http://www.onthemedia.org/ Scroll to the bottom and check out the story slugged "White Noise". Click on "Listen Now". Was listening to KNPR on the way to work this morning and they made a bit of mention on the subject of women in the media news. However, this satire comes from www.thepoorman.net, right? Kind of "Muscat Humor"... ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 June 28, 2005 Quote However, this satire comes from http://www.thepoorman.net, right? Yes. BTW, not like Muscat at all. Mike, as you might know, mostly tells jokes and puns (which are like jokes (except they don't have a punchline (and therefore are not by definition funny (you really can only groan (seriously (it's the only thing you can do (legally))))))). This piece, written by The Poor Man and voiced by OTM is a longer form of observational humor and satire.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #25 June 28, 2005 I agree. There shouldn't be a men's standard and a women's standard. There should just be a minimum standard to qualify to do the job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
