rhino 0 #176 June 23, 2005 You can draw stars and stripes on the well. That doesn't make it a flag. Your shirt with stars and stripes isn't a "flag". If you don't have the mental capacity to understand this I can't help you.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #177 June 23, 2005 QuoteWhether your assertion is correct or not, it's not their interpretation, it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. I was establishing that we go to war partially due to the Jebus card, not why they believe what they believe. Can you understand that? Doubt it. What I understand is you opened your mouth, spouted some really stupid stuff, and once proven wrong make some lame attempt at covering your ass... Come on, admit you are wrong for at least once...You are."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #178 June 23, 2005 QuoteSame reason carrying a banner constitutes free speech. My bad.. Now we are constituting things.. o.k. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #179 June 23, 2005 QuoteYou can draw stars and stripes on the well. That doesn't make it a flag. Your shirt with stars and stripes isn't a "flag". If you don't have the mental capacity to understand this I can't help you.. So, you would have no issue with some one drawing the flag on a large piece of cloth and then burning it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #180 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteUh, wrong - it's a package deal So you know why I voted for people? Wow, you are missing your true calling guessing people weights and futures at the freak show. QuoteOK, you wrote it's proven, where? You wrote, "proof" but failed to prove it. Best, maybe for the minoroty of rich, but equally and oppositely worse for the poor. You mistake AGAIN "free" with good. Nice one-liners (rolls eyes). So you know why I voted for people? Wow, you are missing your true calling guessing people weights and futures at the freak show. Well, then explaion why you voted for our monkey in chief. People, intelligent people vote for candidates that represent their beliefs. If you are person, as I think yiou are, and if you are intelligent, then you will follow some sort of thought process like this. Do you vote the opposite of you beliefs, or is it that you put corporate interests before, oh, let's say AIDS victims? Instead of this illiteration style one-liner replies, why not actually answer the question? You mistake AGAIN "free" with good. What????? That makes loads of sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #181 June 23, 2005 QuoteCome on, admit you are wrong for at least once...You are. Will you admit you were wrong about the tazers and wrong about your statement that the people elect the president? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EBSB52 0 #182 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat would you do to some one who pisses on the US flag? What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? For what so many in the past have willingly fought and died for everyone sure is in a hurry to desecrate it. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? WOW, no offense here, but this is a horrible argument. The issue is not about people going aound and burning the flags of others, but it's about the burning of a persons own property, their own flag. So if you pissed on your own chute, I couldn't care less. That is the correct way to draw that anaolgy. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! I hate to break this to you, but the Japanese did that in 1942. Besides, again that ship isn't mine or yours, so that's a ridiculous statement. I will do what I wish with my property, with or w/o your permission. Please, can you muster a correct analogy or argument? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #183 June 23, 2005 QuoteWell, then explaion why you voted for our monkey in chief. People, intelligent people vote for candidates that represent their beliefs Wrong emotional people vote for people that represent their beliefs. Intelligent people vote for who they think is the better canidate without using emotion as a factor. I already told you why I voted for Bush....Kerry was the only real other choice and I didn't trust him for a second. I found him to be a liar, and a power hungry blue blood who wanted to be just like Kennedy. His voting record was full of acting voting one way, but he never claimed it later. He clearly voted FOR the war, but later claimed he was against it from the start....did he think we had the memory of a goldfish? That and his questionable military record, his claiming to be a war hero while bashing the service ect.... AIDS was never an issue for me. I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. My ideal choice was niether Bush or Kerry....But that was the choice I had."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #184 June 23, 2005 QuoteWill you admit you were wrong about the tazers and wrong about your statement that the people elect the president? Sure as soon as you provide proof about the tazers...Which you never did. And if you look at the President comment you will see (...) which means I was going into a long explanation then say nevermind you would not listen anyway. Cause you already think you know it all even when you have no proof."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #185 June 23, 2005 QuoteSo, you would have no issue with some one drawing the flag on a large piece of cloth and then burning it? You still aren't paying attention. I am finished responding to you. We are on different scales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #186 June 23, 2005 QuoteSure as soon as you provide proof about the tazers...Which you never did. He is incapable of proving anything.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #187 June 23, 2005 QuoteAnd if you look at the President comment you will see (...) which means I was going into a long explanation then say nevermind you would not listen anyway. And we all know what assumption make of you..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EBSB52 0 #188 June 23, 2005 QuoteFreethefly said, in post # 27 of this thread..... QuoteMy health is in shambles due to AIDS (got some real bad news from my Dr. on monday) yet my healthcare provider can do little to treat it, thanks to the freaking feds. No money to help me, yet this government will waste a major amount on trying to keep someone from burning a piece of cloth. (emphasis added by me.) There is no way to read that other than what was said: his health is in shambles because of the AIDS virus. No interpretation needed at all. And then, in response to Astro in post #29, Freethefly said: QuoteIf that is a joke, not funny. If not, honestly, the only thing I fear is dying of AIDS. And then ESBS52 said in post #34 QuoteWell, you're in luck; no one die of AIDS, but AIDS related symptoms. ESBS52, your comment was incredibly insensitive and crude. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. Your subsequent "apology" was more of an excuse for your comment than an apology as well as a justification for making it, than an apology in the most "technical" sense of the word. And then, your professed "explanation" about how he never said he has AIDs was proclaimed over and over, and that you misread the comment is blatantly false. One would sincerely hope you read things a tad more carefully in the future, and remember also that there are people reading this who have AIDs and don't post; your comment shows true colors, in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. On to the topic at hand... Flag burning is abhorrent to me. Preventing someone from expressing themselves - and perhaps suffering the consequences of such expression - is far more abhorrent on a much larger level to me. It is symbolic of all I hold dear, and it hurts to see someone disrespect that. But in the end, it is only a symbol, easily replaced. The erosion of such expression is not so easily replaced. No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, as that respect is held in my heart and mind. They can only touch (or torch) the symbol of it; and that symbol doesn't matter. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. For those who rant that all Republicans will back Bush on this, blanket statements are detrimental and injurious. Same with those who make blanket statements about Democrats. Doing so denies the complexity of someone's affiliation, and prevents anyone from really considering the other side of the argument and independently coming to their own conclusions. To do so, then, denies one an opportunity to learn from another about why they believe a certain way about a certain topic. Ciels- Michele I didn't read post #27, I was just skimmimng thru. I saw what looked like a statement in #29 about fear of AIDS in a general context about disease. I was unaware by reading that that the author actually had AIDS or HIV. Since then I publicly rectified it, but you are here to do as you did in the closed thread and just wait for any chance to jump at me. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. I'm guilty of that and I immediatley rectified it. So you can stand down now and quit drawing attention to it - do you think Freethefly feels good about you using this for fodder against me? Who's insensitive now? You could have PM'd me, but you want public capitla for this at the potential cost to the person you claim to be defending. You have contempt for me - likewise - take it to pm or otherwise drop it. in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. Yes, we should suppress things likethis and the truth in general. In your conservative world we just shelve things and refuse to talk about them, which is why we can ignore them. The reason I inserted that was that freetehfly said he didn't want to hear about anything from me unless I was qualified. Am I qualified? Not really. But I established my knowledge of people with AIDS. I did live through some of the emotional aspects of it. John died right before Majic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV. The entire world was up in arms and worried that a celebrity was going to die of AIDS eventually. My GF's family was major pissed, well, you see this classist country allows for MJ to get meds and stay well, but not the poor people who are called all kinds of names, but refused meds and care. I hatethe same thing freethefly does - this classist pos country won't care for ill people unless they have money or are a celeb. Shall we talk about Mickey Mantle the drunk who gets a liver in momenst after being diagnosed with needing one? How about Alonzo Mourning? No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, Slavery, masacre of American Indians, ethnocentricity, classism, racism, anhilation, Imperialism, Fascism ... and all behind the giuse of Democracy. Get me a tissue. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. And that's what matters - what you think. How about what the Muslims think? Oh that's right, that matters not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #189 June 23, 2005 QuoteYou still aren't paying attention. I am finished responding to you. We are on different scales. Is that the scale on which you are incapable of answering a simple question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #190 June 23, 2005 QuoteHe is incapable of proving anything.. let me use Ron's technique here: Ohh yeah...prove it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EBSB52 0 #191 June 23, 2005 QuoteYou can talk about burning the flag all day long.. That's free speech.. Just don't do it.. I wasn't going to, but now I think I will just because of you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #192 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He is incapable of proving anything.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- let me use Ron's technique here: Ohh yeah...prove it... Feel free to use it...I just wish you would do it for once."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EBSB52 0 #193 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteUh, what I wrote was the there are 2 aspects to medical care - 2 major ones. 1. Quality 2. Quantity, which is availability. So in an American Republican way, you're right; If care is not available due to exclusivity, the quality doesn't matter. IOW's, keep refusing care to the poor and they can't bitch aboutthe quality of it. Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. The ability to get it is one of QUANTITY, not QUALITY. Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. There is a correlation, but 1 aspect of medicine is availablity, then if you're a Fascist American, you dole it out to whomever deserves it. Then after that the quality issue becomes relevant. Quality doesn't matter for the poor, because it's moot. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Right, fewer peopleget better care - that's my argument. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. There's my correlation - cost and availability - you said they were seperate...... Arguing with you is easy and fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EBSB52 0 #194 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhether your assertion is correct or not, it's not their interpretation, it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. I was establishing that we go to war partially due to the Jebus card, not why they believe what they believe. Can you understand that? Doubt it. What I understand is you opened your mouth, spouted some really stupid stuff, and once proven wrong make some lame attempt at covering your ass... Come on, admit you are wrong for at least once...You are. Wow, a 2-liner..... adress the substance if you're able. it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. Again, it's our interpetation of the whole Jebus garbage that might or might not have an impact as to why we go to war - that is the argument. Who cares what the Israelis think, the Muslims, etc.... We don't act off their ideolgy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #195 June 23, 2005 QuoteThere is a correlation, but 1 aspect of medicine is availablity, then if you're a Fascist American, you dole it out to whomever deserves it. Then after that the quality issue becomes relevant. If you are a give it away liberal the quality does not matter as long as its free. Even if it is almost impossible to get and does no good. QuoteThe US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Right, fewer peopleget better care - that's my argument. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. There's my correlation - cost and availability - you said they were seperate...... Arguing with you is easy and fun Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog. He does not understand logic either. Try to understand this very simple concept....Giving it away will mean it is not as good (quality) while it will have lots of people trying to get it (Quantity)...Most of those that are trying to get it will not be able to since everyone is trying. I go to VA hospitals....So I know something about this process and how it works....And from my experience it is MUCH better than what others have said. And lets never forget you would rather drag everyone down to try and make everyone happy...Which makes no one happy. I'd rather the people who work hard have a chance at a good life while the lazy don't get shit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EBSB52 0 #196 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell, then explaion why you voted for our monkey in chief. People, intelligent people vote for candidates that represent their beliefs Wrong emotional people vote for people that represent their beliefs. Intelligent people vote for who they think is the better canidate without using emotion as a factor. I already told you why I voted for Bush....Kerry was the only real other choice and I didn't trust him for a second. I found him to be a liar, and a power hungry blue blood who wanted to be just like Kennedy. His voting record was full of acting voting one way, but he never claimed it later. He clearly voted FOR the war, but later claimed he was against it from the start....did he think we had the memory of a goldfish? That and his questionable military record, his claiming to be a war hero while bashing the service ect.... AIDS was never an issue for me. I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. My ideal choice was niether Bush or Kerry....But that was the choice I had. And why is it you think Bush was a better candidate? Giove examples of what he might do versus what Kerry might have done. You won't giove any. AIDS was never an issue for me. So AIDS and medical care for ill people wasn't even a consideration, huh? Inaction is still a reaction. So you failed to consider an important aspect of politics and therefore are cleansed? I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. So here is your answer, let all the ill people die instead of raising taxes to pay for care? So you have affirmed my original contention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #197 June 23, 2005 QuoteAnd why is it you think Bush was a better candidate? Giove examples of what he might do versus what Kerry might have done. You won't giove any. I already answerd that try reading it again. I didn't trust Kerry, he is a liar interested in only gaining power. QuoteAIDS was never an issue for me. So AIDS and medical care for ill people wasn't even a consideration, huh? Inaction is still a reaction. So you failed to consider an important aspect of politics and therefore are cleansed? Who said I didn't consider it? I said it was not an issue...Try reading more carefully next time. QuoteI also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. So here is your answer, let all the ill people die instead of raising taxes to pay for care? So you have affirmed my original contention. Again try reading hero...I said LAZY, not ill. Seriously try reading it TWICE before you type."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #198 June 23, 2005 QuoteHe does not understand logic either. Try to understand this very simple concept....Giving it away will mean it is not as good you call that logic? Why is free healthcare not as good as health care you pay for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #199 June 23, 2005 QuoteI hate to break this to you, but the Japanese did that in 1942. Besides, again that ship isn't mine or yours, so that's a ridiculous statement. I really hate to break this to you, but your not up on your world history. The attack on Pearl Harbor was in the year of our lord 1941, not 1942. Proverbial "slip" or just uninformed? QuoteRegardless of your age, or your interest in World War II, a visit to Pearl Harbor Hawaii is an extremely emotional experience. There are many war memorials across America, but there's something truly different here. At 7:55 on the sunny morning of Sunday, December 7, 1941, 183 Japanese warplanes swooped out of a cloudless sky and demolished the US Pacific fleet docked at Pearl Harbor. It was this single catastrophic event, not the invasion of Poland, the Battle of Britain or the persecution of the Jews, that finally dragged the United States into World War II. Consider yourself "All Knowed Up Now"-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #200 June 23, 2005 QuoteIt sure is funny how everyone was a flag flying mofo after 09/11, now all of a sudden everyone want's their "RIGHT" to burn an american flag protected. Sorry, i call BS. I doubt you'll find many people that are in both camps. The people who would burn flags now weren't waving them back in 2002. They were protesting. But then there seem to be quite a few GOP flag wavers here who see a problem with amending the Constitution to protect a symbol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 16 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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EBSB52 0 #182 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat would you do to some one who pisses on the US flag? What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? For what so many in the past have willingly fought and died for everyone sure is in a hurry to desecrate it. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? WOW, no offense here, but this is a horrible argument. The issue is not about people going aound and burning the flags of others, but it's about the burning of a persons own property, their own flag. So if you pissed on your own chute, I couldn't care less. That is the correct way to draw that anaolgy. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! I hate to break this to you, but the Japanese did that in 1942. Besides, again that ship isn't mine or yours, so that's a ridiculous statement. I will do what I wish with my property, with or w/o your permission. Please, can you muster a correct analogy or argument? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #183 June 23, 2005 QuoteWell, then explaion why you voted for our monkey in chief. People, intelligent people vote for candidates that represent their beliefs Wrong emotional people vote for people that represent their beliefs. Intelligent people vote for who they think is the better canidate without using emotion as a factor. I already told you why I voted for Bush....Kerry was the only real other choice and I didn't trust him for a second. I found him to be a liar, and a power hungry blue blood who wanted to be just like Kennedy. His voting record was full of acting voting one way, but he never claimed it later. He clearly voted FOR the war, but later claimed he was against it from the start....did he think we had the memory of a goldfish? That and his questionable military record, his claiming to be a war hero while bashing the service ect.... AIDS was never an issue for me. I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. My ideal choice was niether Bush or Kerry....But that was the choice I had."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #184 June 23, 2005 QuoteWill you admit you were wrong about the tazers and wrong about your statement that the people elect the president? Sure as soon as you provide proof about the tazers...Which you never did. And if you look at the President comment you will see (...) which means I was going into a long explanation then say nevermind you would not listen anyway. Cause you already think you know it all even when you have no proof."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #185 June 23, 2005 QuoteSo, you would have no issue with some one drawing the flag on a large piece of cloth and then burning it? You still aren't paying attention. I am finished responding to you. We are on different scales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #186 June 23, 2005 QuoteSure as soon as you provide proof about the tazers...Which you never did. He is incapable of proving anything.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #187 June 23, 2005 QuoteAnd if you look at the President comment you will see (...) which means I was going into a long explanation then say nevermind you would not listen anyway. And we all know what assumption make of you..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #188 June 23, 2005 QuoteFreethefly said, in post # 27 of this thread..... QuoteMy health is in shambles due to AIDS (got some real bad news from my Dr. on monday) yet my healthcare provider can do little to treat it, thanks to the freaking feds. No money to help me, yet this government will waste a major amount on trying to keep someone from burning a piece of cloth. (emphasis added by me.) There is no way to read that other than what was said: his health is in shambles because of the AIDS virus. No interpretation needed at all. And then, in response to Astro in post #29, Freethefly said: QuoteIf that is a joke, not funny. If not, honestly, the only thing I fear is dying of AIDS. And then ESBS52 said in post #34 QuoteWell, you're in luck; no one die of AIDS, but AIDS related symptoms. ESBS52, your comment was incredibly insensitive and crude. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. Your subsequent "apology" was more of an excuse for your comment than an apology as well as a justification for making it, than an apology in the most "technical" sense of the word. And then, your professed "explanation" about how he never said he has AIDs was proclaimed over and over, and that you misread the comment is blatantly false. One would sincerely hope you read things a tad more carefully in the future, and remember also that there are people reading this who have AIDs and don't post; your comment shows true colors, in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. On to the topic at hand... Flag burning is abhorrent to me. Preventing someone from expressing themselves - and perhaps suffering the consequences of such expression - is far more abhorrent on a much larger level to me. It is symbolic of all I hold dear, and it hurts to see someone disrespect that. But in the end, it is only a symbol, easily replaced. The erosion of such expression is not so easily replaced. No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, as that respect is held in my heart and mind. They can only touch (or torch) the symbol of it; and that symbol doesn't matter. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. For those who rant that all Republicans will back Bush on this, blanket statements are detrimental and injurious. Same with those who make blanket statements about Democrats. Doing so denies the complexity of someone's affiliation, and prevents anyone from really considering the other side of the argument and independently coming to their own conclusions. To do so, then, denies one an opportunity to learn from another about why they believe a certain way about a certain topic. Ciels- Michele I didn't read post #27, I was just skimmimng thru. I saw what looked like a statement in #29 about fear of AIDS in a general context about disease. I was unaware by reading that that the author actually had AIDS or HIV. Since then I publicly rectified it, but you are here to do as you did in the closed thread and just wait for any chance to jump at me. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. I'm guilty of that and I immediatley rectified it. So you can stand down now and quit drawing attention to it - do you think Freethefly feels good about you using this for fodder against me? Who's insensitive now? You could have PM'd me, but you want public capitla for this at the potential cost to the person you claim to be defending. You have contempt for me - likewise - take it to pm or otherwise drop it. in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. Yes, we should suppress things likethis and the truth in general. In your conservative world we just shelve things and refuse to talk about them, which is why we can ignore them. The reason I inserted that was that freetehfly said he didn't want to hear about anything from me unless I was qualified. Am I qualified? Not really. But I established my knowledge of people with AIDS. I did live through some of the emotional aspects of it. John died right before Majic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV. The entire world was up in arms and worried that a celebrity was going to die of AIDS eventually. My GF's family was major pissed, well, you see this classist country allows for MJ to get meds and stay well, but not the poor people who are called all kinds of names, but refused meds and care. I hatethe same thing freethefly does - this classist pos country won't care for ill people unless they have money or are a celeb. Shall we talk about Mickey Mantle the drunk who gets a liver in momenst after being diagnosed with needing one? How about Alonzo Mourning? No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, Slavery, masacre of American Indians, ethnocentricity, classism, racism, anhilation, Imperialism, Fascism ... and all behind the giuse of Democracy. Get me a tissue. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. And that's what matters - what you think. How about what the Muslims think? Oh that's right, that matters not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #189 June 23, 2005 QuoteYou still aren't paying attention. I am finished responding to you. We are on different scales. Is that the scale on which you are incapable of answering a simple question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #190 June 23, 2005 QuoteHe is incapable of proving anything.. let me use Ron's technique here: Ohh yeah...prove it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #191 June 23, 2005 QuoteYou can talk about burning the flag all day long.. That's free speech.. Just don't do it.. I wasn't going to, but now I think I will just because of you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #192 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He is incapable of proving anything.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- let me use Ron's technique here: Ohh yeah...prove it... Feel free to use it...I just wish you would do it for once."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #193 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteUh, what I wrote was the there are 2 aspects to medical care - 2 major ones. 1. Quality 2. Quantity, which is availability. So in an American Republican way, you're right; If care is not available due to exclusivity, the quality doesn't matter. IOW's, keep refusing care to the poor and they can't bitch aboutthe quality of it. Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. The ability to get it is one of QUANTITY, not QUALITY. Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. There is a correlation, but 1 aspect of medicine is availablity, then if you're a Fascist American, you dole it out to whomever deserves it. Then after that the quality issue becomes relevant. Quality doesn't matter for the poor, because it's moot. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Right, fewer peopleget better care - that's my argument. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. There's my correlation - cost and availability - you said they were seperate...... Arguing with you is easy and fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #194 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhether your assertion is correct or not, it's not their interpretation, it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. I was establishing that we go to war partially due to the Jebus card, not why they believe what they believe. Can you understand that? Doubt it. What I understand is you opened your mouth, spouted some really stupid stuff, and once proven wrong make some lame attempt at covering your ass... Come on, admit you are wrong for at least once...You are. Wow, a 2-liner..... adress the substance if you're able. it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. Again, it's our interpetation of the whole Jebus garbage that might or might not have an impact as to why we go to war - that is the argument. Who cares what the Israelis think, the Muslims, etc.... We don't act off their ideolgy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #195 June 23, 2005 QuoteThere is a correlation, but 1 aspect of medicine is availablity, then if you're a Fascist American, you dole it out to whomever deserves it. Then after that the quality issue becomes relevant. If you are a give it away liberal the quality does not matter as long as its free. Even if it is almost impossible to get and does no good. QuoteThe US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Right, fewer peopleget better care - that's my argument. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. There's my correlation - cost and availability - you said they were seperate...... Arguing with you is easy and fun Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog. He does not understand logic either. Try to understand this very simple concept....Giving it away will mean it is not as good (quality) while it will have lots of people trying to get it (Quantity)...Most of those that are trying to get it will not be able to since everyone is trying. I go to VA hospitals....So I know something about this process and how it works....And from my experience it is MUCH better than what others have said. And lets never forget you would rather drag everyone down to try and make everyone happy...Which makes no one happy. I'd rather the people who work hard have a chance at a good life while the lazy don't get shit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #196 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell, then explaion why you voted for our monkey in chief. People, intelligent people vote for candidates that represent their beliefs Wrong emotional people vote for people that represent their beliefs. Intelligent people vote for who they think is the better canidate without using emotion as a factor. I already told you why I voted for Bush....Kerry was the only real other choice and I didn't trust him for a second. I found him to be a liar, and a power hungry blue blood who wanted to be just like Kennedy. His voting record was full of acting voting one way, but he never claimed it later. He clearly voted FOR the war, but later claimed he was against it from the start....did he think we had the memory of a goldfish? That and his questionable military record, his claiming to be a war hero while bashing the service ect.... AIDS was never an issue for me. I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. My ideal choice was niether Bush or Kerry....But that was the choice I had. And why is it you think Bush was a better candidate? Giove examples of what he might do versus what Kerry might have done. You won't giove any. AIDS was never an issue for me. So AIDS and medical care for ill people wasn't even a consideration, huh? Inaction is still a reaction. So you failed to consider an important aspect of politics and therefore are cleansed? I also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. So here is your answer, let all the ill people die instead of raising taxes to pay for care? So you have affirmed my original contention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #197 June 23, 2005 QuoteAnd why is it you think Bush was a better candidate? Giove examples of what he might do versus what Kerry might have done. You won't giove any. I already answerd that try reading it again. I didn't trust Kerry, he is a liar interested in only gaining power. QuoteAIDS was never an issue for me. So AIDS and medical care for ill people wasn't even a consideration, huh? Inaction is still a reaction. So you failed to consider an important aspect of politics and therefore are cleansed? Who said I didn't consider it? I said it was not an issue...Try reading more carefully next time. QuoteI also don't like the idea of giving away the store by taxing those who bust their asses to make a living so some lazy cry babies can skate free through life. So here is your answer, let all the ill people die instead of raising taxes to pay for care? So you have affirmed my original contention. Again try reading hero...I said LAZY, not ill. Seriously try reading it TWICE before you type."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #198 June 23, 2005 QuoteHe does not understand logic either. Try to understand this very simple concept....Giving it away will mean it is not as good you call that logic? Why is free healthcare not as good as health care you pay for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #199 June 23, 2005 QuoteI hate to break this to you, but the Japanese did that in 1942. Besides, again that ship isn't mine or yours, so that's a ridiculous statement. I really hate to break this to you, but your not up on your world history. The attack on Pearl Harbor was in the year of our lord 1941, not 1942. Proverbial "slip" or just uninformed? QuoteRegardless of your age, or your interest in World War II, a visit to Pearl Harbor Hawaii is an extremely emotional experience. There are many war memorials across America, but there's something truly different here. At 7:55 on the sunny morning of Sunday, December 7, 1941, 183 Japanese warplanes swooped out of a cloudless sky and demolished the US Pacific fleet docked at Pearl Harbor. It was this single catastrophic event, not the invasion of Poland, the Battle of Britain or the persecution of the Jews, that finally dragged the United States into World War II. Consider yourself "All Knowed Up Now"-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #200 June 23, 2005 QuoteIt sure is funny how everyone was a flag flying mofo after 09/11, now all of a sudden everyone want's their "RIGHT" to burn an american flag protected. Sorry, i call BS. I doubt you'll find many people that are in both camps. The people who would burn flags now weren't waving them back in 2002. They were protesting. But then there seem to be quite a few GOP flag wavers here who see a problem with amending the Constitution to protect a symbol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
