EBSB52 0 #101 June 23, 2005 Quote If this passes just remember that any flag touching the groud per the flag code is considered descrated so any jumpers doing a jump with the flag would be subject to arrest if it touches the ground. Also anyone flying a flag at night with out being properly lit needs arrested, as does anyone that allows that flag to become tattered, flown on an improper height flag pole or places the flag on the wrong side of a speaker. If it passes I would be saddened at the loss of a freedom that we currently have. I know what would be cool - lighting a flag that you're towing at about 100 feet off the ground..... cool!!!! WHat a statement..... watch all the righty extremist nutjobs freak and run for the extinguisher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #102 June 23, 2005 But how would you define desecration with reference to what you would have punished and what you would not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #103 June 23, 2005 Quote If this passes just remember that any flag touching the groud per the flag code is considered descrated so any jumpers doing a jump with the flag would be subject to arrest if it touches the ground. You've read this code? Please share with us... It is about BURNING the flag. People in here sure do have focus problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #104 June 23, 2005 Quote You've read this code? Please share with us... It is about BURNING the flag. People in here sure do have focus problems. I think it meant that Congress would have the right to define what is desecration. Am I wrong? I think that would open it up to more than just burning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #105 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote I don't like the idea of socialised medicine...It does not work well. Proof of that is the US healthcare system is one of the finest in the world. Actually, from what EBS and free are saying, it sounds like they have proof that socialized medicine does not work well. It's what we have in America, after all. We have the most privatized medicine in all the world that excludes those w/o money, yet some will complain it's to social. Can you or anyone else produce a place that has a more privatized medical program? No system is great, with costs what they are, but it's about exclusion and the US of A is great at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #106 June 23, 2005 Quote but in modern times I don't recall anyone killing in the name of the Christian God. I recall lots of dead Protestants and Catholics from modern times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #107 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote Quote Notice the turd has significantly more value than the Qu'ran. Would you like to reconsider that statement, or do you stand by it. Comparing the price of the Qur'an from amazon.com to the price of the foods I listed to produce the turd, the total price of the foods is greater than the cost of the Qur'an. Simple arithmetic and I stand by it. I suppose, though, that you are referring to the intrinsic value of the Qur'an vs. the intrinsic value of the turd. As a tool for brainwashing a bunch of susceptible people into doing incredibly vile and inhumane acts, the Qur'an has considerably more value than the turd. In my opinion it ranks right on up there with money as a motivator for doing evil. Muslims, or at least the really vocal ones, seem to have quite an ability to rationalize violence in the name of religion. "Allah Akbar!!!" followed by the loud boom of an explosion has become a commonplace occurrence. I haven't heard of anyone shouting, "Long live the turd!!!" and killing themselves and innocent bystanders with a bomb. I think the typical turd is much less prone to being used as rationale for heinous acts of violence. From that perspective, at least the turd does less damage than the Qur'an. I'll leave it to each individual to judge which they consider to be of more value to humanity. Walt Muslims, or at least the really vocal ones, seem to have quite an ability to rationalize violence in the name of religion. "Allah Akbar!!!" followed by the loud boom of an explosion has become a commonplace occurrence. It's a good thing Christians aren't like that Funny post tho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #108 June 23, 2005 Quote WHy shouldn't all Americans, born or naturalized be entitled health care via governement programs? Socialized medicine sounds like a great idea when you say it fast. But there are problems with it. First of all, remember that the government isn't Santa Claus. Whatever the government gives to the people it must first take from the people. Nationalising something only gives the ILLUSION that it is free. You're still paying for it. And typically, the new advances in medicine, treatments, and surgical technique usually come from countries that don't have, or have a very limited version of, socialized medicine. The USA continues to invent a disproportionately-large amount of medical advances. Sometimes medical treatment can be very sub-par in countries w/ socialized medicine. The problem with nationalization of goods or services is often the pursuit of excellence is gone, replaced with a pursuit of mediocrity. I don't know what the answer is. On the one hand you gotta keep things affordable, on the other, you really need to drive the science forward & pay back the researchers for all the years & effort that go into the development of a single drug/treatment. I am a scientist myself doing basic research on HIV. Scientific advancement & invention of new drugs takes a long time & a lot of effort, therefore a lot of money. Science is HARD!! And therefore, the treatments & medicine that it produces are going to be expensive. Socializing medicine or not-socializing medicine, the people still have to pay for it one way or the other. again, the government is not Santa Claus with a bottomless bag of goodies. -(whew, way to hijack a thread!- but being a researcher, this is an issue for me.) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #109 June 23, 2005 Quote wrong. According to Christianity, if you live a life totally without sin, there's nothing separating you from heaven. Problem is, only one person has managed to do this. What a crock of shit. You mean to tell me that an infant who died soon after birth commited sins? I'm not addressing who gets into heaven. I'm simply addressing who has commited a sin. Once again I call bullshit. Then again I think the whole Christian religion is bullshit. Ah shit why stop there. I think all man made religions are bullshit. They only exist as a way to attempt to control people. Now what does religion, healthcare and all the other crap being mentioned in this thread have to do with the US passing a law against burning the US flag? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #110 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote Do you have references to back up this statement? People come here for cancer treatments from all over the World. Ill look for a source, but I see them, and have talked to them. And that somehow supports a bold and broad statement that we have the best medical system in the world? Jesus, are u fuckin serious? Cancer treatment and the availabilityof it for all isn't a measure of the entire system. Let's talk about quality and quantity (availability). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #111 June 23, 2005 Quote Didn't Bush Senior pull this same crap? When things weren't going well under his watch, he suddenly pulled this ant-flag desecration ammendment out of his ass in order to distract people. Bush Junior is pulling the same thing. You're right, when people become dissatisfied with the country, the turds play the "Patriot Card." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flifree 0 #112 June 23, 2005 hey speedracer i think i must have put that quote in post wrong or you got the wrong dude. i am not for socialized medicine. i worked in the heatlhcare field for 11 years and i can tell you one thing about the closest example we have here, the VA system, it's absolutely atrocious. i think it would be nice and a pipe dream to have it for everyone, but i dont' think it's feasible. nothing is free in the world. i was merely making a point that no one is entitled to free healthcare....or any healthcare period....under the Constitution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #113 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote Quote As a tool for brainwashing a bunch of susceptible people into doing incredibly vile and inhumane acts, the Qur'an has considerably more value than the turd. Would you say that this analysis applies to the bible as well? That is a very good question. Christianity and Islam both have had plenty of atrocities committed in their names throughout history, but in modern times I don't recall anyone killing in the name of the Christian God. The same is certainly not true for Islam. Here is the problem I have with Christianity: I can kill a bunch of people for no reason and still get into Christian Heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. On the other hand, if I live a life without sin and do not accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, my soul goes straight to Hell. Here is the problem I have with Islam (and I must admit, MOST of what I know of Islam comes from what I see in the media, although I do have Muslim friends and have talked at length with them about their religion): I can kill a bunch of innocent people in the name of Allah and go straight to Muslim Paradise. Where is the sanity in all of this? To answer your question directly, yes, the Christian Bible is often used to brainwash people into doing things they would not normally do, but there just doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of violence associated with the Bible as there is with the Qur'an. It seems to me that Islam and Judaism have a very high level of paranoia. Both seem to view themselves as being constantly under attack. Christianity, on the other hand, does not project that same level of paranoia. Walt Christianity and Islam both have had plenty of atrocities committed in their names throughout history, but in modern times I don't recall anyone killing in the name of the Christian God. The same is certainly not true for Islam. Christians are much more subtle about it. The US backing Israel is the US' way of defending Christianity as well as oil, ideology. but there just doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of violence associated with the Bible as there is with the Qur'an. Sorry bro, but I have to respectfully disagree here. We are just so subtle about it and hind behind the guise of alterior motive. I don't like the application of the Quran, but the Bible is no better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #114 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote On the other hand, if I live a life without sin and do not accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, my soul goes straight to Hell. wrong. According to Christianity, if you live a life totally without sin, there's nothing separating you from heaven. Problem is, only one person has managed to do this. I have not committed one God damned sin my entire life..... oh shit, there goes my streak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #115 June 23, 2005 >Any american citizen who burns an american flag should move out of the country. Anyone who thinks the constitution should keep their feelings from being hurt should move someplace where people don't give a damn about freedom. >If anyone residing in the USA doesn't have any more respect for this >country than that, then it's their legal "RIGHT" to get the fuck out. I think anyone who hates our constitution so much that they want to change it for political reasons should go somewhere where they don't have to deal with things like the Bill of Rights. >I catch some one burning a flag, well let's just say there would be a > slight altercation. And then you'd be in jail and they'd be free to burn some more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #116 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote WHy shouldn't all Americans, born or naturalized be entitled health care via governement programs? i agree it would be nice if everyone could have healthcare, but there isn't one single section of the Constitution that says ANYONE is entitled to heatlthcare. life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but i don't think it means free healthcare for everyone. Firstly, the US COnst is overstated and vague. WHat is "Unreasonable" search and seizure? Where in the 2nd does it say I can have a gun under my pillow? Healthcare isn't an entity that wouldbe regulated by the US Const. By birthright, I don't mean inalienable Const right/protection, I mean that all Americans should be entitled to healthcare, you agree? Is it ok with you that there are ill people out there w/o care? Free healthcare? No, taxes pay for it instead of some football stadium or some military project, get it? We pay for it, but it's guaranteed regardless of how much money you earn? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #117 June 23, 2005 Quote But how would you define descration with reference to what you would have punished and what you would not? Burning an old tattered flag is legal. fine. Burning a (new) flag to make a statement should in my opinion be illegal. Wearing flag pants? Shirts? whatever has nothing to do with burning the flag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #118 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote the same as some maggots crying about burning the US flag? So you are personally attacking those of us that are against flag burning? And allowing our countries symbol to be burned at will so a bunch of pansies can feel like they are exercising free speech Are you attacking those who support or who actually burn flags? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #119 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote but in modern times I don't recall anyone killing in the name of the Christian God. I recall lots of dead Protestants and Catholics from modern times. You are absolutely right. I stand corrected. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #120 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote It's not that easy. It costs a lot I guess it is easier for you to make excuses than to move. Alot less work. What excuses, I'm working on my second degree, a degree that will enable me to move. What grade did you finish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #121 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote But how would you define descration with reference to what you would have punished and what you would not? Burning an old tattered flag is legal. fine. Burning a (new) flag to make a statement should in my opinion be illegal. Wearing flag pants? Shirts? whatever has nothing to do with burning the flag. The law would give Congress the right to determine what is and what is not desecration with reference to the US Flag. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure burning will be included in that but it doesn't sound like it stops there. You say wearing flag pants or shirts doesn't apply. That's your standard. What's theirs? Do they need to have that kind of power over free speech & expression? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #122 June 23, 2005 Quote Christians are much more subtle about it. The US backing Israel is the US' way of defending Christianity as well as oil, ideology. I have never understood US backing of Israel. IMO with friends like that, who needs enemies? I don't see the support as being based on Christianity, though I would really like to see your reasoning. Quote but there just doesn't seem to be anywhere near the level of violence associated with the Bible as there is with the Qur'an. Sorry bro, but I have to respectfully disagree here. We are just so subtle about it and hind behind the guise of alterior motive. I don't like the application of the Quran, but the Bible is no better. Again, I would like more detail on your reasoning. Many Muslims were highly upset by some comment that President Bush made that included the word "crusade". Their interpretation was that the US invasion of Iraq was some sort of holy war that Bush was waging. To me, their response indicated a complete lack of understanding of how this country works. I believe that the primary motivations of the people that run the US are money and power. When they hide behind religion, it is only for convenience. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #123 June 23, 2005 Be careful to read the fine print first Rhino. In South Africa they had a law like this for many years, but how is descration of the flag defined? In South Africa it ment that you couldn't even use it in/as clothing. Can you imagine? What would middle aged men on Harleys use to protect their heads in the event of a crash if they couldn't have a US flag for a bandana?? The country would be walking around half naked!!!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #124 June 23, 2005 Actually is not just about burning.... here's the wording of what was passed: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:3:./temp/~c109v2a2wk:: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House) 109th CONGRESS 1st Session H. J. RES. 10 JOINT RESOLUTION Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. HJ 10 EH 109th CONGRESS 1st Session H. J. RES. 10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JOINT RESOLUTION Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification: `Article -- `The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.'. Passed the House of Representatives June 22, 2005. Attest: Clerk."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #125 June 23, 2005 Quote Quote wrong. According to Christianity, if you live a life totally without sin, there's nothing separating you from heaven. Problem is, only one person has managed to do this. What a crock of shit. You mean to tell me that an infant who died soon after birth commited sins? I'm not addressing who gets into heaven. I'm simply addressing who has commited a sin. Once again I call bullshit. Then again I think the whole Christian religion is bullshit. Ah shit why stop there. I think all man made religions are bullshit. They only exist as a way to attempt to control people. Now what does religion, healthcare and all the other crap being mentioned in this thread have to do with the US passing a law against burning the US flag? I like this guy!!! Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
