House OKs flag desecration amendment... PASS IT!

[tkhayes 348]

tit for tat, productive or not productive, I think it boils down to a freedom of speech issue, I can say/do whatever the hell I want, or at least I used to be able to.

Whether you agree or even know my reasons is absolutely none of your business.

How about we pass laws that define "productive" protests.... now THAT would be a waste of legislative time and money

TK

[kelel01 1]

How about burning a flag in protest of a flag burning amendment? At the very least, I'd say it's extremely relevant . . . productive, perhaps not, but certainly relevant.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

its not that I dont agree with people having the right to protest in a reasonable way. I just dont understand why people try things that do not have results, its almost like trying to use your finger to hammer a nail, if it dont work why get all bloody over it?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lisamariewillbe 1]

And that is exactly what happened, as soon as this amendment came into light people burned them in protest of them. Dont know how it will help or hurt the amendment, only time will tell.

Pineapples not a root fruit??? doesnt it grow under ground? hmmmmm Im confused now lol

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[kelel01 1]

Apparently it grows on a bush.

And I'm not sure if it will help or hurt, but I'd expect everything would just balance out. Some people will change their minds one way, others in the other direction, and everyone else will just maintain their current opinions.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I have never seen a pineapple bush, I so dont believe that lol.

Yes its the way of the world, if we all agreed and got along it would be well boring.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[rehmwa 2]

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How about we pass laws that define "productive" protests.... now THAT would be a waste of legislative time and money

I don't think that she's been arguing about the amendment (which is seriously a bad thing to do). Just that flag burning is a stupid and ineffective form of speech. (I still think it's more simply just a property rights issue and the speech thing is just a way to interject emotion into it).

Free speech certainly should protect people's right to relate a message - even a poorly conceived and outrageous and impotent counter-productive symbolic messages.

Since we can't legislate class, intelligence, or clear communications, it is necessary to live with the crap to keep the good protected.

I also don't get the idea of how destroying things, wearing stupid t-shirts, etc constitute anything other than childish obnoxiousness. Granted, carrying a banner does at least put a written message out there to be heard. Clear and respectful verbal and written debate makes more sense. The first removes the 'respectful' portion of it and does a cause more harm than good.

But we certainly can't outlaw one without the other being in jeopardy - that's the danger to speech. First, you outlaw stupid gestures. Then REAL speech gets curtailed. Both the extreme left (school topics, political correctness) and the extreme right (flag burning, etc) have these agendas. They are just becoming more and more public lately. How about term limits? Sound good yet?

Flag burning is not speech to me, it's a shock method to gain an audience, at which point then the speech occurs. But using that method gains a hostile audience (mostly) and closes the ears to whatever message is put forth (good or bad, most people who use shock to get going seem to not really have a message other than they are discontented - and even then can't really say what they want to change). What a crappy way to convene a crowd - but the media only responds to the outrageous, so there you have it.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have never seen a pineapple bush

http://jor.com/travel/thailand/thai-pineapple-syl-W.jpg

3 crops a year, of declining size. Not sure how big it gets at picking time.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

hmmm still confused, the fruits below the earth, sighhhh the complexity of life

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[christelsabine 1]

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hmmm still confused, the fruits below the earth, sighhhh the complexity of life

Fruits are NOT below.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[lisamariewillbe 1]

hehehe I know hence why pineapple is a root right?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[bmcd308 0]

I have always felt like the Congress has no business banning the desecration of the flag. What they should ban is the prosecution of anyone who kicks some else's ass for doing it.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[rehmwa 2]

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What they should ban is the prosecution of anyone who kicks some else's ass for doing it.

We already have laws against assault, etc. But I wouldn't be surprised if they pass a redundant law just to get more votes. It's what they do.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jenfly00 0]

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If someone is disrespecting the actual flag then they in turn are disrespecting the meaning behind the flag. That is only my opinion, but it is something I truely feel in my heart. I feel about this as I feel about alot of things, ie people dont need expensive funerals, yet families provide a huge service costing thousands of dollars because of the memory of the person, it would not be disrespectful to just cremate and silentley bury someone yet out of respect of a memory most people provide a memorial and funeral for there loved ones. If someone was protesting the people who provide said service by setting caskets on fire while a funeral is going on it is disrespectful.

However, the media makes flag burning out to be this huge problem that is going on everywhere in our country, to be honest there are not that many flag burnings, at least not ones that make the news, however when I see someone burning the flag the improper way it pains me, and makes me sad. I love the history of my country, I cry when I think about all the people who have to die just to protect my freedom, I cry harder when others who have never fought for anything more less this country sit there and desecrate what I feel is the greatest symbol of my country.

To me there is nothing better then driving down the hwy , bored, tired, and annoyed at traffic, to turn around a bend and see high above this earth , the most beautiful flag with bold bright colors reminding me, reminding me what I have and what I am thankful for. As I watch the flag I am reminded of my granddaddys war stories, I am reminded of the pain he went through during and after, I am reminded that I gave birth to amazing children, I am reminded that alot of blood was lost just to keep that flag in the sky. I am reminded of my families name in a book on ellis island, I am reminded that if it werent for this country my blood line woud have died in a cold dark concentration camp, I am reminded of my uncle, whose name is etched in a wall, I am reminded of all that I am thankful for.

I'm in complete agreement with you on this post!
jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[akarunway 1]

veiled threats, that's good. be careful, if you throw down on someone they may just take your firearm away from you and pistol whip you with your own gun. how'd that be? ==== I doubt very much you'd or anyone else be able to take it away. You or whomever would never see it coming and if I pull it I'm gonna use it. TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[waltappel 1]

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I agree, dammit stop getting me to agree.

The reason this is such a big deal when it does arise is because it is based on emotions. One side says it disrespects the founding fathers and the men and women who died to keep the meaning of that flag alive, then theres the emotions of those who feel that the govt is infringing on rights, when you tell someone they cant do something , they want to do it. This topic gets the attention purely because it is emotion based, no matter what side you are on.

I agree there are many things that need to be worked on that are a higher priorty, but it does not take from the fact that I hope this amendment is passed.

I think few, if any, of the people in this thread who disagree with the amendment disagree with your feelings about this country. It is our country and our home too.

I am an American and I love my country, but I have a profound mistrust of most of the people who are running it. When we the people give up ANY of our rights, we are giving the government more ammunition to use against us.

The Supreme Court's recent decision that it is OK for local governments to take away someone's property and hand it over to PRIVATE business is a prime example. The majority of the Supreme Court showed their true colors in that case.

Guns are already HIGHLY regulated, but there are many in the government who want to take away our gun ownership rights. As one friend put it, "I don't trust any government that doesn't trust me to own a gun."

The government throws people in jail for using drugs that it considers bad for us. In my opinion, the whole idea of imprisoning someone for screwing themselves up is absolutely ludicrous. (In case you are wondering, I don't use drugs, nor do I smoke or drink.)

If the government finds even a small quantity of drugs in your home or boat or car, they can confiscate it. This has become a real bonanza for some law enforcement departments.

If they find that you have large amounts of cash--they can confiscate it without any proof whatsoever that it was obtained by illegal means. Another example of a bonanza for some law enforcement departments.

We put more people in prison than any other country in the world. Are you sure that you want to give the government yet another way to imprison its own citizens--especially something that does not put anyone's safety at risk?

The U.S. government is far more of an imminent threat to its own citizens than Al Queda ever thought of being. I want them to be LESS of a threat to citizens, not more of a threat and yes, that means I don't want them to be able to screw with someone for something as dumb as burning a flag.

Walt

[rwieder 0]

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I doubt very much you'd or anyone else be able to take it away.

Overconfidence is the first step to an unplanned failure.

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You or whomever would never see it coming and if I pull it I'm gonna use it.

More veiled threats? I was just merely pointing out that you should be careful about making remarks about pulling guns on people. You really never know who your adversary is, or just exactly what their capabilities are......until it's too late.

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TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

Now you cracking wise. I don't take anything to the bank but my pay check. Be careful out there.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[newsstand 0]

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Fuck the flag burning assholes, but defend their right to burn. Ala Voltaire...

Son of a bitch I agree with anvil.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[bch7773 0]

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Fuck the flag burning assholes, but defend their right to burn. Ala Voltaire...

Son of a bitch I agree with anvil.

me too.

"I may not agree with burning the flag, but i'll defend to the death your right to burn it."

MB 3528, RB 1182

[bmcd308 0]

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In Reply To
What they should ban is the prosecution of anyone who kicks some else's ass for doing it.

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We already have laws against assault, etc. But I wouldn't be surprised if they pass a redundant law just to get more votes. It's what they do.

You got me backwards.

I do not think there should be a law against flag burning, I just think that the fact that the flag burner was engaged in flag burning should be an affirmative defense for kicking their ass.

As long as we are having a theoretical argument about burning the flag, I am on the side of those who say that flag burning is a form of expression and should be protected.

If you are actually burning the flag, I will then argue that kicking your ass is my form of expression.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[rehmwa 2]

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If you are actually burning the flag, I will then argue that kicking your ass is my form of expression.

That's great. I agree.

I'd also like to say that farting in the airplane is me exercising my freedom of speech rights and anyone who complains is a tyrant, fascist, or communist and must be jailed for hate crimes.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I'd also like to say that farting in the airplane is me exercising my freedom of speech rights and anyone who complains is a tyrant, fascist, or communist and must be jailed for hate crimes.

As long as your ass doesn't violate environmental laws against toxic emissions....

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[rehmwa 2]

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I'd also like to say that farting in the airplane is me exercising my freedom of speech rights and anyone who complains is a tyrant, fascist, or communist and must be jailed for hate crimes.

As long as your ass doesn't violate environmental laws against toxic emissions....

Or local fire ordanances

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,088]

>farting in the airplane is me exercising my freedom of speech rights . . .

I agree. Of course, my subsequent tossing you out of the plane is my exercise of my freedom of association.

[rehmwa 2]

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>farting in the airplane is me exercising my freedom of speech rights . . .

I agree. Of course, my subsequent tossing you out of the plane is my exercise of my freedom of association.

Certainly not, it's a hate crime. Don't bring your hate around here and mess with my art. What are you? Some kind of business owner or Republican bully I bet. I'm trying to get a government grant from the foundation for the perverted arts, here.

That's it, gotta move to Canada.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants