jenfly00 0 #226 June 24, 2005 Quote Quote and those of you that want to feed off of the constitution and burn flags, don't call yourselves americans, because your not. AGREED 100%. Well there you go. People have different opinions. I feel there is a threshold on the patriotic zeal scale, beyond which one would be a traitor to the country they say they love. Whipping yourself up to a froth to do violence to Americans because your sensibilities were offended ...yet claiming to be a patriot??? Seems to me such a person has lost all sight of what is right and wrong. Just put me on your lists of people you intend to beat up because we offend your sensibilites. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #227 June 24, 2005 Quote Nothing is ever free...my taxes and private insurance pay for the clinics I go to. And what is your tax rate if you don't mind me asking? Mine is 25% http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=133517,00.html I pay 300.00 a year for health insurance. Quote consider the health care to be outstanding.....once you get it. Many Canadians would wish that those who could afford to pay more for certain care could get it seperately, which would free up the system for those who cannot. Such a two tier system is currently against the law in Canada. However, some Canadians do end up going to the US, or India, or Thailand for certain operations or MRIs for instance. Not because the care is necessarily better, but because the availability is better. Being that its hard to get, do you think it is a good system? Edit: And as far as the flag issue. I think most can agree that only the far left would be willing to burn the flag in protest, and only the extreme right would get in a tizzy over it. Both sides are kinda stupid and neither group is likely to see the others view."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #228 June 24, 2005 what have YOU done for YOUR country lately. it's all take, and no giving back? Rhino has served his country in the military, my father and my son did as well. I didn't but barely missed the viet nam draft, i would have went had i been selected. unless you have been in the military, or served in some other capacity other than a "partaker" of all the goodies and rights you have as an american, i don't believe you will ever understand how a patriot feels. I still rmemeber how the returning troops from viet nam got spit on by american citizens when they returned home from the war, will you be one of them? or do you support the troops? That said, i doubt seriously Rhino has any intentions of "beating you up" as far as i know while he feels strongly about political issues he's non violent. But what i do know is he has served his country and for that, he has my greatest respect. To him and all of the brave young women and men that have, or are serving their country, defending the honor of the flag, and providing you with the right to say and think what you will, i say again "Thank You" "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country" JFK-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #229 June 24, 2005 My marginal tax rate is 46.41% living in Ontario (highest tax bracket), plus 23.21% on capital gains and 31.34% on Canadian dividends. My additonal insurance is a benefit of my employment. I never said that I thought the system was good, but I thought we were talking about the quality of care. Flag issue, I agree with you ron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #230 June 24, 2005 Quote what have YOU done for YOUR country lately. it's all take, and no giving back? Rhino has served his country in the military, my father and my son did as well...unless you have been in the military, or served in some other capacity other than a "partaker" of all the goodies and rights you have as an american, i don't believe you will ever understand how a patriot feels. I served in the 82nd Airborne as an Infantryman. You didn't serve, what have YOU done, not your Dad, not your Son...YOU? What makes you a patriot more than her? Love of a piece of cloth? I get more pissed at someone who flies a tatered, worn out flag than some moron who burns one. I think burning a flag is stupid, but I think getting your panties in a wad over some moron burning a flag is also stupid. Quote To him and all of the brave young women and men that have, or are serving their country, defending the honor of the flag, and providing you with the right to say and think what you will, i say again "Thank You" Like it or not those that have served, served so that jackass CAN burn the flag. It is part of the very freedom that the flag represents. I suggest you run around with a fire extinguisher and help put out the fire hazard. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #231 June 24, 2005 Make it stop!!! Make it stop!!! You people are killing me. You've got Ron and Skydeker acting like children (my healthcare system is better than your system, my country is better than yours) Shit neither system is good ... neither country is perfect ... but they both somehow manage to work. And we have people like you and Rhino pounding your chests proclaiming the USA to be the greatest nation in the history of mankind claiming than anyone who doesn't like the flag and the Prez's policies is unAmerican and should leave. Has it ever occurred to you that some Americans don't believe in your federal government's desire to get into wars (to stimulate Americans economic development at the risk of destroying another society). Why are these people so unAmerican when they prefer peace over war? News flash: There is a reason why American has enemies. First off, the American people are predominately good people, but they come off as arrogant (do it my way or it's the highway attitude), American is a violent society and their government policies reflect this violence upon the rest of the world. The USA is one of the few countries with a mobile military WILLING to invade and occupy any country in the world that suits their economic interests. If you think Iraq is about the war on terrorism, then Bush has succeed in his brain-washing fear mongering tactics. I'm not saying that America is all evil because it's not. But until you recognize why many people throughout the world perceive Americans as an arrogant, violent society, then you will never understand why people throughout the world hate and/or just dislike you. Wake up, smell the coffee. You're not all that. But you sure do act like you think you're all that. But if you're okay with this. Keep pounding your chest proclaiming yourself to be the greatest society whoever inhabited this planet, a society that really doesn't give a shit anything other than the almighty dollar. The rest of us will be seen shaking our heads thinking ... there goes another war loving arrogant American. Oh and every dominate society throughout the history of mankind has fallen. Why is America so different? You're not. Oh and flame me all you want. I won't be responding to this ... at least not today. You see, while some of you stiffs get all worked up about this thread today (I'd love to measure your blood pressure as I'm sure it's skyrocketing by now with hate and anger towards me), I'll be off jumping at my local DZ all day and my blood pressure will be low (assuming I don't have a mal). PS: What a crock of shit to say that only people who have served in the military care about their country. Time to grow up and out of your violence loving attitude. War and violence is NOT the answer. It just fosters more war and violence by future generations. Did you not learn anything from the first world war? I doubt it. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #232 June 24, 2005 Quote Whipping yourself up to a froth to do violence to Americans because your sensibilities were offended You are calling flag burning sensible? Get a grip.. Keep trying.. Your remarks are ALMOST witty.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #233 June 24, 2005 Quote Like it or not those that have served, served so that jackass CAN burn the flag. That is your opinion. I didn't serve to some jackass can burn my flag. I completely disagree. Some of us stand up for our flag and country in the most patriotic of ways. Some don't. It means something special to some of us. It doesn't to others. My flag is sacred.. I served my country and expect those that didn't to respect that so called piece of cloth that they did nothing to earn a piece of. Any serviceman that burns a flag should be shot on site for dishonor. This country needs honor. Servicemembers thinking it's o.k. to burn the very flag they fight for is a bit off canter don't you think? What really pisses me off is people that REALLY don't think it is o.k. joining the masses to say IT SHOULD BE when they know damned well that it's wrong. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #234 June 24, 2005 Go burn a flag you America hater Quote Did you not learn anything from the first world war? I doubt it. ha - they weren't involved with it for more than a few months... ya know they needed much longer than that to learn anything from it. They were in Nam for 10 years and still didn't pick up any lessons. Just leg pulling all of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #235 June 24, 2005 Quote There is a reason why American has enemies. First off, the American people are predominately good people, but they come off as arrogant And some other countries come off as hollier than thou. Thinking they know better than anyone else and the US is less evolved since the US does not think they way they do. One major reason people don't like the US is the US is the biggest on the block. Quote The USA is one of the few countries with a mobile military WILLING to invade and occupy any country in the world that suits their economic interests. If you think Iraq is about the war on terrorism, then Bush has succeed in his brain-washing fear mongering tactics. Got proof? Or are you acting hollier than thou? Quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #236 June 24, 2005 Quote That is your opinion. I didn't serve to some jackass can burn my flag. I completely disagree. Then I am afraid, while your servie was good and noble, you missed the whole point of Freedom. Quote Some of us stand up for our flag and country in the most patriotic of ways. Some don't. It means something special to some of us. It doesn't to others. OK so treat YOUR flag with respect. But don't expect someone else to hold your standards. Fly your flag high and proud...If someone tries to burn YOUR flag, shoot them. But if they want to act stupid and burn the flag they own...It is their right. Quote My flag is sacred.. I served my country and expect those that didn't to respect that so called piece of cloth that they did nothing to earn a piece of. Why, just beause YOU say so? Way to impose your will on others even when your view is illegal. Quote Any serviceman that burns a flag should be shot on site for dishonor. Oh thats not over reacting at all. Lets kill a guy for burning a piece of material thats colored really neat. That is facisim. Quote This country needs honor. Servicemembers thinking it's o.k. to burn the very flag they fight for is a bit off canter don't you think? Nope, I swore to defend the US CONSTITUTION. The oath I took (which is the same you took): "I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD." Nowhere does it say "The Flag". You are WAY over reacting thinking you would shoot a person who defended the country for buring a piece of cloth. Quote What really pisses me off is people that REALLY don't think it is o.k. joining the masses to say IT SHOULD BE when they know damned well that it's wrong. Oh I think its wrong...But I also know that the country was founded on freedom and that is what makes the country great. The country you seem to think the US is is one that rules with an iron fist and will kill over something stupid. Burn all the flags you want, it is a RIGHT that I served to protect. I may not like it, but it is still a right."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #237 June 24, 2005 Quote Quote Have you ever been burned? I have. Nothing peaceful about it. Are you comparing burning the flag to setting your neighbor on fire? Hahahahahaha!!!! I'm sorry, that was too damn funny! Rhino, just because you don't like something doesn't mean it should be illegal. Burning a flag does not infringe on anyone else's rights. And Phreezone, loved your "Does the Supreme Court not understand US laws?" comment! I don't like sauerkraut!!!!!!!!! Its smell is very offensive to me! Let's outlaw it!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #238 June 24, 2005 Not to side track (well, OK maybe I do want to side track) but Ya'll know it's also legal to burn a cross. Many would argue that the cruciform is at least as powerful as a symbol to many, and just as offensive when burned. Sometimes idiots who are unable to express themselves otherwise, need a way to show the rest of us just how dumb they really are. Maybe we should just outlaw fire? (Nah, we have to have something to stare at while we drink beer and lie about out skydives...)illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #239 June 24, 2005 Quote The country you seem to think the US is is one that rules with an iron fist and will kill over something stupid. That's it. This is the extreme right and extreme left that the other 90% percent of us are fighting to keep out of office. And to have to vote for someone who's just a tad less right than the other guy is left gives us a lousy choice everytime. (Too bad it appears that congress is mostly loaded with those 10%'ers. And it's our fault for voting for them and their irrational appeals to emotion) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #240 June 24, 2005 Quote Maybe we should just outlaw fire?.. It's funny how everything concerning free speech eventually boils down to either fire or urine. We are still monkeys, smart monkeys, but still monkeys. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #241 June 24, 2005 Quote Quote Whipping yourself up to a froth to do violence to Americans because your sensibilities were offended You are calling flag burning sensible? Get a grip.. Keep trying.. Your remarks are ALMOST witty.. I'm going down the street to the hardware store. Last time I was there, they had small American flags on pencil sized poles for $1. I'm gonna buy and bunch and when I get back, I'm gonna light one up in protest of your most un-American posts. I'll buy a dozen and fire one up in protest each time I read you expressing your personal hatred wrapped in the guise of patriotism. I doubt they will last the weekend. BRB jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperboy357 0 #242 June 24, 2005 As far as my history books read I don't recall thousands of soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen dying over sauerkraut. The fact is the flag represents the freedom we have fought for and it didn't come for free. I'm not one to stop someone's freedom of speech but burning the flag should be stopped in my opinion. Next week I'm leaving for active duty again and the flag represents the country that I love and will die for. Remember those who have died for our freedom of speech. I don't think it's too much to ask to keep the flag a symbol of freedom so we as soldiers know that we're not fighting and dying in vain. SSG James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #243 June 24, 2005 Quote Burn your flags, kill the very soul that the greatest nation on the face of the earth has been based upon for all of our lives. The Flag is a symbol; an image. It is nothing in itself. I would maintain that the "very soul of that greatest nation" lays not in an image or symbol but in the way that country is defined in the rights acknowledges its citizenry has. In our case, this would be the U.S. Constitution. Not even the piece of paper on display at the National Archives, but the words, ideals and ideas on it. As such, there is no way to actually burn the soul of this country. No way to destroy it other than to have zealots in power try to change the meaning of those words in destructive ways. Burning the flag, while clearly disrepectful, does no more actual damage to this country than burning books. While it may be possible to destroy the physical manifestation of an idea, you can not destroy the ideas themselves.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #244 June 24, 2005 I burn this flag in protest of the un-American neo's who's actions (if not intent) threaten to defile the freedoms that made us the great. It saddens me to burn my country's flag, but I'll toast one every time I read a post promoting beating down those who celebrate our liberty and freedoms. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,087 #245 June 24, 2005 >I can't believe this statement. That flags aren't people? Then we're not even in the same universe. If you think burning a man alive is like burning a flag, then we really have no common ground. >If someone burns a flag for BS reasons, or just to prove a point, >they are burning a piece of me as well. I've seen burn victims in trauma bays. If you ever find yourself there (and I hope you never do) you will realize the difference between the two. >Ya'll go ahead and burn your flags. I'll fly mine with pride, diginity >and grace. I'll salute it as well every chance i get. I love my flag and > my country, and those of you that want to feed off of the > constitution and burn flags, don't call yourselves americans, > because your not. I call myself an american. I spent five years of my life designing weapons to defend it. After 9/11 I designed a system that allows people on the ground to monitor hijacked aircraft. I have a US flag that I fly on occasion, and I would never consider burning it. But I also believe in freedom, and I realize not everyone is like me. And I accept that. You want to burn a flag? I will think you're an asshole, but I won't shoot you because of it. You want to get a cheap made-in-China flag from Wal-Mart, put it on the antenna of your Hummer and fly it until it's colorful strings to prove your "patriotism?" Go right ahead. I'll think you're disrespecting the flag, but go ahead. That's what living in a free country is all about - accepting that other people are different. >"America, love it, or leave it" It's really time to do some soul searching. As should people who want to destroy free speech. There are plenty of countries that do not have the free speech we have, where criticism of the government is not as accepted. So for those of you who don't like the freedoms the constitution provides - the border awaits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,087 #246 June 24, 2005 >“The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration >of the flag of the United States.” So Rhino, I have to ask - if this amendment passes, and the guy in the pictures below does the same thing again, how many years in jail you think he should get? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #247 June 24, 2005 Please take a look at this thread you posted a few weeks ago. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1646783#1646783 You say it is stupid that they are pissed because someone desecrated the Quran, yet you think that someone that burns a flag should be in prison? Nice double standard there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #248 June 24, 2005 Hey Rhino, what if a patriotic American objects to this amendment PRECISELY BECAUSE he is patriotic about what America stands for, and views this amendment as un-American?? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #249 June 24, 2005 Quote So Rhino, I have to ask - if this amendment passes, and the guy in the pictures below does the same thing again, how many years in jail you think he should get? Gotta say....nice one. Desecration could be interpreted as a broad range of things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,558 #250 June 24, 2005 Quote It's funny how everything concerning free speech eventually boils down to either fire or urine. Bravo! Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites