House OKs flag desecration amendment... PASS IT!

[skydyvr 0]

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i would have went had i been selected.

Ok, so, you didn't serve in the military.

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unless you have been in the military, or served in some other capacity other than a "partaker" of all the goodies and rights you have as an american, i don't believe you will ever understand how a patriot feels.

How in the world would you know? You just wrote that you didn't serve in the military.

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[Botellines 0]

Well said!!!!

[rehmwa 2]

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Just because you are offended does not mean it should be outlawed.

This is so confusing. Everybody who used to say this is now against this and everybody who used to be against this is now saying it. Anyone have any Advil?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

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you missed the whole point of Freedom

I'm afraid while you served you might have missed the point of honor and respect for those that have fought and died before you in uniform..

Here's the Army Enlisted Oath:

""I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So, burning the flag is Constitutional speech. Your oath was to support and defend the Constitution. I see no averments in the oath about honor and respect for thos that have fought and died before in uniform.

I've taken the oath to support and defend the Constitution (on a few occasions, actually). These words, this oath, has meaning. You're sworn to protect the Constitution, not honor those who died.

The oath deserves some respect.

edited: you said you lose respect for people who find burning the flag unacceptable. According to your oath, you've got no choice but to accept it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rhino 0]

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within legal means

Then we just make it illegal in some way. Then we protect our national symbol by the constitution as it should be. Let's become a country with some class and dignity.. I know you understand what I am saying..

And as usual you (unlike) other ladies have spoken with grace and maturity........

Rhino

[rhino 0]

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Burning a flag does not infringe on your rights. It does not cause bodily harm. It does not cause you financial harm.

Neither did women not being able to vote. But we matured as a society and now you can vote. Surely you can understand the logic of raised standards.

[pajarito 0]

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I've said it once.. I'll say it again for those of you that have selective reading..

I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.
I said BURNING THE FLAG.

Rhino

If we're just talking about "your opinion", I'd agree that burning is the only issue. However, your original post is broader than that. If we're talking about what Congress passed, then we're discussing that banning desecration of the flag could mean just about anything. It seems the "selectivity" might be yours.

[skydyvr 0]

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Burning a flag does not infringe on your rights.

Neither did women not being able to vote.

You think women not being able to vote were not having their rights infringed upon?

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[rhino 0]

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How in the world would you know? You just wrote that you didn't serve in the military. Crazy

What if he encouraged his children to join or supported their decision to do so because he loves his country just the same? What if he supported them while they served? What if he defends what they fight for while arm chair quarterbacks insult the soldiers honor?

I think all of these things make him a Patriot as you say....

Rhino

[rhino 0]

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In Reply To
Burning a flag does not infringe on your rights.

Neither did women not being able to vote.

You think women not being able to vote were not having their rights infringed upon?

Let me help you out with this simple logic as she says..

Back in the day women weren't allowed to vote. Everyone thought they didn't have the right to vote. They disagreed (like people that support an ammendment to make flag burning against the law) and they fought for their right to vote.

Now they can vote. It is their right.

Do you understand or should I email you the link to hooked on phonics

[jenfly00 0]

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Burning a flag does not infringe on your rights. It does not cause bodily harm. It does not cause you financial harm.

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Neither did women not being able to vote ...

Well that pretty much sums up where you're coming from.

jen

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[IanHarrop 42]

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Let's become a country with some class and dignity..

It appears you are suggesting that the USA is not a country of with some class and dignity now.

Edit to add: I personally think that if you are suggesting this, that you are wrong!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[rhino 0]

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It seems the "selectivity" might be yours.

Respect the flag man. Simple..

[rhino 0]

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It appears you are suggesting that the USA is not a country of with some class and dignity now.

With such a large amount of people saying burn the flag what do you expect?

Class and dignity is lacking in an EXTREME way in this country... That's another thread..

[lawrocket 3]

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Let me help you out with this simple logic as she says..

Back in the day women weren't allowed to vote. Everyone thought they didn't have the right to vote. They disagreed (like people that support an ammendment to make flag burning against the law) and they fought for their right to vote.

Now they can vote. It is their right.

Let me clean this up for you:
"Back in the day women weren't allowed to vote. According to the Constitution, they didn't have the right to vote. Many agreed that this was sound policy. Many other believed this was wrong.

Knowing that allowing a woman to vote was not allowed under the Constitution, the women's suffrage movement secured a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing their freedom to vote.

Note, rhino, that they did not fight for their right to vote. Since you brought up phonics/semantics, etc., I'll brign it up to. They HAD NO right to vote, so they fought TO GET a right to vote.

It would be like me fighting for my daughter. I have no daughter, so how can I fight for her? But, I can try to get one.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skydyvr 0]

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What if he encouraged his children to join or supported their decision to do so because he loves his country just the same? What if he supported them while they served? What if he defends what they fight for while arm chair quarterbacks insult the soldiers honor?

I think all of these things make him a Patriot as you say....

According to rweider, not having served in the military means his own opinions are meaningless.

But then he goes on to spout plenty of opinions as if they meant something. Self-exception at it's finest.

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[rhino 0]

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Since you brought up phonics/semantics, etc., I'll brign it up to.

I'll send you the link as well.

[rhino 0]

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According to rweider, not having served in the military means his own opinions are meaningless.

What he is saying is that his son (or veterans) admittingly have more of a right to an opinion than he does because veterans served.

He admitted this.. I admire his honesty. Something lots of other people seem to lack..

That does not mean he isn't a patriot or that he doesn't understand what being a patriot is.

Rhino

[rhino 0]

I have to give it to the greenies.. They have been more tolerant than usual in this thread..

I appreciate that...

Rhino

[skydyvr 0]

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Back in the day women weren't allowed to vote. Everyone thought they didn't have the right to vote.

I'll bet millions of women thought they had the right to vote, but that it was simply being denied them.

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Do you understand or should I email you the link to hooked on phonics

And here's a link for you:

http://www.logictutorial.com/

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[Michele 1]

I do understand what you're saying. And I can't agree that we should make it unlawful. Why?

Well, what's next, then? Perhaps banning the reading of a religious book in public? Only in their own house? Oh, wait, the SC yesterday said that even though it's our own house, they can take it away from us...I mean, religious symbols and books are offensive to some. So let's ban those next.

Well, and how about banning mormonism? I recently spent some time in Utah, and found that they don't know how to make a margarita very well...and yet charged the same price as those I drink here in Los Angeles. That was offensive to me...and the whole no alchohol thing infringes upon my freedom, so why not ban the mormon's grasp upon the gorgeous state of Utah?

Or perhaps banning certain publications - like Playboy or Hustler (the only ones I know; there are far worse ones which I don't know about), which some people think promote violence towards women. Those sorts of mags are offensive to some.

And how about taking our guns away, because an unarmed public is a herd of sheep? If we can't fight back, then the takeover's on the way. My owning a weapon is offensive to some.

Or maybe, we shouldn't allow women to vote any more. After all, it's offensive to some that we think independently and vote our minds...

I had my first experience with "reverse bigotry" the other day. I was deeply offended, and absolutely angry about that. How about banning that particular racial group from that career field, because it offends me that she is allowed the same license as I am?

Yes, I know those are farfetched examples. And if you'd asked me the other day if the SC would find in favor or emminent domain extending to private parties in the manner they did, I'd've said that's a far fetched example too. But it happened, you know?

What would be the ramifications - in a long term, national sense - of banning the burning of the flag? I dunno, but I can't see that curtailing freedom expression because it offends and hurts some deeply (me included) is a wise or good thing at all.

Basically, I see the Constitution not as a protection against me not being offended. I see it as protection against physical harm, interfering with my right to find my own happiness (but with no guarantee it'll show up), the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure (in my home and/or car), and so forth. It's more about "physical" (meaning bodily, or group of people's body) protection, rather than emotional protection.

It's up to me, the person, to find my emotional happiness...not the government's responsibility to see that I'm free of offense and hurt. It's up to me to make sure that no flag in my possession is burned. It's up to me to earn a living, and to provide for myself; it's not up to my government. And the document which establishes that also establishes that other people have the identical rights as I do...meaning that if they want to burn a flag to protest something, then it's their right to do so in pursuit of their freedom of expression.

I really understand where you're coming from, and I can't agree with it. It's all good, Rob. That's freedom of expression in action. Too cool....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[lawrocket 3]

Well, what do you have to say about your oath to support and defend the Constitution? Right now, there's a right to burn a flag. Are you not, by oath, supposed to support and defend the flag burner?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rhino 0]

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Note, rhino, that they did not fight for their right to vote.

One more thing.. Were you even alive then? How do you know?

I took history.. I remember women fighting indeed.. In many ways.. Once again like many Americans you take for granted those that earned your rights.

Rhino

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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>“The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical
>desecration of the flag of the United States.”

Amazing that we'd consider curtailing the freedoms of all Americans so some people don't get their feelings hurt. Face reality, guys. Sometimes your feelings are going to get hurt. It's part of life in the real world.

/signed.

Freedom of speech and expression? Yet another victim of the conservative nation.

No bother to argue with me, I won't change my mind on it...never have, never will on this topic. I've heard each side over and over again since this BS started back in Ohio in '90. It's amazing how much you can get people to buy into when you blind them with ego-centric nationalistic/ignorant pride. It's one thing being proud of your country, it's another thing to remove someones freedoms because you feel "off" about it. Fact is - enforcing a law against desecration is unamerican as you can get. Therefore, those that support voting this trash down are the real, true, patriotic Americans. They believe in what is really written on those great documents (Bill of Rights, Constitution, etc).

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[rhino 0]

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I'll bet millions of women thought they had the right to vote, but that it was simply being denied them.

And I will bet that millions of Americans think they have a right not to have their flag burned. Like blacks thought they had a right not to be slaves, like women thought they had a right to vote...