IanHarrop 42 #151 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe babies don't live long enough to get cancer.... OK ,how about the ones that do? And you knew what I meant. Yea ... I did... just couldn't resist So lets look at Cancer Morality rates: http://www.truehealth.org/acompar1.html Cancer Mortality Rates Comparison US - Sri Lanka - China - Japan per 100.000 US Sri Lanka China Japan TYPE Male Female Male Female Male Female Male Female Total 220.7 190.3 29.3 26.1 128.5 81.6 273.0 169.9 If you were female you're better off in Sri Lanka, China and Japan If you are male you're better off in Sri Lanka, and China. Edited to try to get the spacing to take but additonal spaces get removed.."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #152 June 23, 2005 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What would you do to some one who pisses on the US flag? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What would YOU do if someone pissed on your canopy? For what so many in the past have willingly fought and died for everyone sure is in a hurry to desecrate it. Hell why don't you just go and desecrate the battle ship Arizona in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii? Now, i'd like to see that! Just wondering what you would do to all those babies wearing diapers with the US flag on it..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #153 June 23, 2005 >Your taking the word out of it's context in this instance inmho. Here is the context: ---------- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ---------- See that word "freedom" in there? That's what you're going after. Some of us think that protecting the freedoms guaranteed in the constitution is important, and should not be sacrificed because someone's feelings might be hurt by a protester. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #154 June 23, 2005 QuoteIf you were female you're better off in Sri Lanka, China and Japan If you are male you're better off in Sri Lanka, and China. Wheres Canada?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #155 June 23, 2005 QuoteWheres Canada? North of the continental US, I suggest a map..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #156 June 23, 2005 I have taken part in more then a few flag burning cerimonies. All at the the request of the flag owners. http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#176 Specifically note the part about (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. Personally if this was enforced: § 3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag The government could lower taxes and we could live off the income generated by these fines.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #157 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you were female you're better off in Sri Lanka, China and Japan If you are male you're better off in Sri Lanka, and China. Wheres Canada? Wait a moment here ... it was you you said the US had one on the finest health care system in the world but didn't have a source to back it up... I've just been supplying references help you adjust your thinking.I never made any statements about Canada and therefore don't need to provide any references to back up anything"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #158 June 23, 2005 QuoteBelieves what exactly? Islam believes Christ was a prophet. Jews don't think he was anything. QuoteThe first thing you need to understand is, we do not believe in the Christian "New Testament." It's not part of our Bible. Many Christians find this confusing: how can you accept one part of a book without accepting another part of the book. But the Bible is not one book; it's a collection of books. Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Mormons each have their own idea of what books belong in that collection. You wouldn't accept another religion's idea of what belongs in your Bible, so you shouldn't expect Jews to do so. ....Jews don't believe that Jesus is the messiah because, quite simply, he never did any of the things that we expect the messiah to do, the things that the prophets proclaimed the messiah would do. See Moshiach: The Messiah. Christianity gets around this by saying that Jesus will come back to do all of those things. From a Jewish perspective, however, the messiah is identified by his tangible acts, and promises to finish the job in the future aren't going to convince us. But though Jesus and his religion may be part of G-d's plan for the world, the general scholarly consensus regarding Jesus is not favorable. On the same page where he made the remark above, Rambam commented that Daniel 11:14 (people who try to establish the vision but stumble and fall) is a reference to Christianity, saying: Is there a greater stumbling block than [Jesus]? All the prophets foretold that the messiah would redeem the Jews, help them, gather in the exiles and support their observance of the commandments. But he caused Jewry to be put to the sword, to be scattered and to be degraded; he tampered with the Torah and its laws; and he misled most of the world to serve something other than G-d. What does the Talmud say about Jesus? Does the Talmud say anything about Jesus? That is open to debate. Rambam and many other prominent Jewish scholars believed that the stories of Jesus are based on Yeshu ben Pandeira, also known as Yeshu ha-Notzri ("Jesus the Branch," a reference to Isaiah 11:1, a passage about the messiah). Yeshu is discussed in parts of the Talmud that were censored by the Catholic Church. The Talmud claims that this Yeshu was the son of a Jewish woman named Miriam (Mary) who was betrothed to a carpenter (more accurately, their marriage was in the stage of kiddushin, where she is legally his wife but not yet living with him or having sexual relations with him; see Marriage). She was either raped or voluntarily slept with a Greek or Roman soldier known as Pandeira, and Yeshu was the product of that union. Because of the status of Miriam's marriage, Yeshu is considered to be a mamzer (usually mistranslated as "bastard", it means the product of an adulterous or incestuous relationship). Some say that he was also a ben-niddah (conceived through intercourse with a woman in a state of menstrual impurity, which is also said to leave a stain on the offspring). The Talmud describes Yeshu as a heretic who dabbled in sorcery and lead the people astray (into idolatry). He was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin for his crimes, and in accordance with the procedure for heretics, his dead body was hung in a tree until nightfall after his death. where as Islam says: QuoteA very great prophet, second only to Muhammad. Jesus is not the son of God (9:30) and certainly is not divine (5:17, 75)) and he was not crucified (4:157). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #159 June 23, 2005 Just checking. Your original statement was vague. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #160 June 23, 2005 Freethefly said, in post # 27 of this thread..... QuoteMy health is in shambles due to AIDS (got some real bad news from my Dr. on monday) yet my healthcare provider can do little to treat it, thanks to the freaking feds. No money to help me, yet this government will waste a major amount on trying to keep someone from burning a piece of cloth. (emphasis added by me.) There is no way to read that other than what was said: his health is in shambles because of the AIDS virus. No interpretation needed at all. And then, in response to Astro in post #29, Freethefly said: QuoteIf that is a joke, not funny. If not, honestly, the only thing I fear is dying of AIDS. And then ESBS52 said in post #34 QuoteWell, you're in luck; no one die of AIDS, but AIDS related symptoms. ESBS52, your comment was incredibly insensitive and crude. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. Your subsequent "apology" was more of an excuse for your comment than an apology as well as a justification for making it, than an apology in the most "technical" sense of the word. And then, your professed "explanation" about how he never said he has AIDs was proclaimed over and over, and that you misread the comment is blatantly false. One would sincerely hope you read things a tad more carefully in the future, and remember also that there are people reading this who have AIDs and don't post; your comment shows true colors, in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. On to the topic at hand... Flag burning is abhorrent to me. Preventing someone from expressing themselves - and perhaps suffering the consequences of such expression - is far more abhorrent on a much larger level to me. It is symbolic of all I hold dear, and it hurts to see someone disrespect that. But in the end, it is only a symbol, easily replaced. The erosion of such expression is not so easily replaced. No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, as that respect is held in my heart and mind. They can only touch (or torch) the symbol of it; and that symbol doesn't matter. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. For those who rant that all Republicans will back Bush on this, blanket statements are detrimental and injurious. Same with those who make blanket statements about Democrats. Doing so denies the complexity of someone's affiliation, and prevents anyone from really considering the other side of the argument and independently coming to their own conclusions. To do so, then, denies one an opportunity to learn from another about why they believe a certain way about a certain topic. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #161 June 23, 2005 Quote To those members of society who put their lives on the front lines every day to protect our nation, and our flag i salute you, and you have my most gracious and humble appreciation. Amen bro... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #162 June 23, 2005 QuoteAnd I can hardly believe that we have people who are against free speech, who actually want to change our constitution to deny people freedoms. REALLY? So what you are saying is that abolishing slavery was bad? What about women voting? After all.. People thought they had the freedom to own slaves. People thought they had the freedom to keep women from voting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #163 June 23, 2005 QuoteIt's what we stand for as a nation - freedom. Freedom with standards and boundaries.. Freedom with honor and respect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #164 June 23, 2005 QuotePersonally if this was enforced: § 3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag..... The government could lower taxes and we could live off the income generated by these fines. Hey, lower taxes? Got my attention again. But, Still not good enough to make an amendment that violates my right to do what I want with my private property (whether or not I'm making some impotent and non-productive 'only for shock value and get on TV' gesture). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #165 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteAre you attacking those who support or who actually burn flags? Can you read? Re-read my statement that you posted. *YAWN* Are you the pot or the kettle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #166 June 23, 2005 QuoteFor those who rant that all Republicans will back Bush on this, blanket statements are detrimental and injurious. Same with those who make blanket statements about Democrats. Doing so denies the complexity of someone's affiliation, and prevents anyone from really considering the other side of the argument and independently coming to their own conclusions. To do so, then, denies one an opportunity to learn from another about why they believe a certain way about a certain topic. Go get 'em M. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #167 June 23, 2005 Quote Just wondering what you would do to all those babies wearing diapers with the US flag on it..... Only you could and would make this comparison.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #168 June 23, 2005 Quote>Proof of that is the US healthcare system is one of the finest in the world. A friend of mine, who is both a world-class skydiver and pretty well off, recently flew to Sweden to get surgery on her shoulder. I know several other skydivers who have done that, because the care is better and the cost is much less even with the plane ticket. In the future, we will see more and more people going overseas to get stem-cell treatments that they can't get here in the US, and to get procedures that they could never afford here. In the future, we will see more and more people going overseas to get stem-cell treatments that they can't get here in the US, and to get procedures that they could never afford here. And the smart ones will stay.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #169 June 23, 2005 Let me help all the left wing liberals out here... SPEECH... Where in here does the physical act of burning a flag constitute speech? # address: the act of delivering a formal spoken communication to an audience; "he listened to an address on minor Roman poets" # (language) communication by word of mouth; "his speech was garbled"; "he uttered harsh language"; "he recorded the spoken language of the streets" # something spoken; "he could hear them uttering merry speeches" # the exchange of spoken words; "they were perfectly comfortable together without speech" # manner of speaking: your characteristic style or manner of expressing yourself orally; "his manner of speaking was quite abrupt"; "her speech was barren of southernisms"; "I detected a slight accent in his speech" # lecture: a lengthy rebuke; "a good lecture was my father's idea of discipline"; "the teacher gave him a talking to" # actor's line: words making up the dialogue of a play; "the actor forgot his speech" # language: the mental faculty or power of vocal communication; "language sets homo sapiens apart from all other animals" www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.1 # Speech:*(n.) an oral presentation by one person to a group (or sometimes just an individual); closely related terms include: *Conversation (infomal speech by more than one person on a topic), *Debate (formal communication between two groups holding opposing views vefore an audience), and *the academic discipline of communications.*(v.) the act of producing voice through the use of the vocal cords or other means, such as sign language, to create linguistic acts that communicate information from a en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #170 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteCancer treatment and the availabilityof it for all isn't a measure of the entire system. Let's talk about quality and quantity (availability). Availability has nothing to do with quality. Just because you have your panties in a wad of the cost does not mean it is not good care. Resorting to the panties line.... beats having an argument worth casting. Uh, what I wrote was the there are 2 aspects to medical care - 2 major ones. 1. Quality 2. Quantity, which is availability. So in an American Republican way, you're right; If care is not available due to exclusivity, the quality doesn't matter. IOW's, keep refusing care to the poor and they can't bitch aboutthe quality of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #171 June 23, 2005 You can talk about burning the flag all day long.. That's free speech.. Just don't do it.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #172 June 23, 2005 >SPEECH... Where in here does the physical act of burning a flag constitute speech? Same reason carrying a banner constitutes free speech. Same reason a march constitutes free speech. Same reason wearing a shirt that says something constitutes free speech. Same reason singing constitutes free speech. None of those are 'speech' but all are protected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #173 June 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteChristians are much more subtle about it. The US backing Israel is the US' way of defending Christianity That shows your knowledge right there. Islam believes in Christ, Jews don't. So supporting Israel, does NOT support Chritianity. Whether your assertion is correct or not, it's not their interpretation, it's OUR interpretation and feelings of Jubus and dad. I was establishing that we go to war partially due to the Jebus card, not why they believe what they believe. Can you understand that? Doubt it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #174 June 23, 2005 QuoteOnly you could and would make this comparison.. Just wondering why people get all upset about the falg being burned, but have no issue with it being printed on something meant to hold piss and shit.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #175 June 23, 2005 QuoteUh, what I wrote was the there are 2 aspects to medical care - 2 major ones. 1. Quality 2. Quantity, which is availability. So in an American Republican way, you're right; If care is not available due to exclusivity, the quality doesn't matter. IOW's, keep refusing care to the poor and they can't bitch aboutthe quality of it. Wrong, there is: Quality Availability They are both seperate. The US has some of the best hospitals, research, and Doctors in the World. Yes, it costs. Canada has free, but hard to get health care. The ability to get it is one of QUANTITY, not QUALITY."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
