this is too funny

[justinb138 0]

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But the officer stated that the reason he stopped her was for speeding.

It doesn't change the fact that the windshield and tail light were broken.

The officer doesn't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt that she was speeding to pull her over either, just probable cause to believe that she was (which is provided by the radar gun, and more than likely confirmed because she would be passing everyone around her.)

It's up to a judge to determine if she was pulled over without probable cause, which is where the radar accuracy would be considered, NOT at the time of the stop.

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He didn't start writing up the other charges until after he fired mega volts into the poor, defensless,Black woman.

Had the suspect not resisted arrest, this would not have happened. Being poor, defenseless, black, or a woman had nothing to do with it.

[eaglenrider 0]

[reply


It's up to a judge to determine if she was pulled over without probable cause, which is where the radar accuracy would be considered, NOT at the time of the stop.

And as I stated ,I would get her off.
Ya see, no court in the US is any longer legitimate.
Instead of upholding the Rights of Citizens, they deny Citizens their Rights at entrance to the court.

Blues,
Cliff
PS- I'm going skydiving so I'll let you ponder this all weekend.
l,

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He didn't start writing up the other charges until after he fired mega volts into the poor, defensless,Black woman.

Had the suspect not resisted arrest, this would not have happened. Being poor, defenseless, black, or a woman had nothing to do with it.

[justinb138 0]

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And as I stated ,I would get her off.

I'm sure you would.

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Ya see, no court in the US is any longer legitimate. Instead of upholding the Rights of Citizens, they deny Citizens their Rights at entrance to the court.

That makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts.

[lawrocket 3]

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Sorry Counsler ,you are speculating.

Yep. I'd prefer to call it "making a reasonable inference."

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aren't you the little judge and jury twinn pack!
Have you ever heard of the idea of innocent until proven guilty?

I know you were speaking about Ron, but one of those weird things about courts of public opinion is that there is no "innocent until proven guilty" There does not have to be. This only applies in court. Any of us can assume all we want.

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The equipment is not suited to distinguish between speed and vibration. As a matter of fact, the equipment utilizes vibration to determine speed.

Okay. So let's assume there was no probable cause to pull her over on the basis of the "radar gun" (which, by the way, uses lasers now). There's probable cause on the basis of observed speed. There's also probable cause on the basis of other violations (three of them were listed).

When it comes to operating motor vehicles, you have no right to do so. You have a license to do so. This means you gotta play within some certain rules.

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the woman isn't guilty becasuse of what you *think* you saw on video.

No, no legally. But she looks guilty as sin to me. I can say that, so can Ron. So can anybody. We have that right here. Yes, even minorities can say or think this, or differently for that matter.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Zenister 0]

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The woman obviously should never have been pulled over as the equipment has serious technical flaws.
The equipment is not suited to distinguish between speed and vibration. As a matter of fact, the equipment utilizes vibration to determine speed.
Ever hear of the tuning fork?

to bad ignorance isnt painful....note: this is VERY simplified for you... i could easily discuss pulse-echo intervals, radar reflectivity at range, multiplicative jump estimation (used to primarily to average when your PLATFORM is in motion), wavelet scales, Doppler, Micro Doppler effects and sidebands but i can tell from your pseudo-intellectual commentary on Radar so far that i'd be wasting my time... so VERY SIMPLY....

1. unless he was VERY close he would be unable to determine that the vibration of her vehicle could possibly be causing his instrument to read incorrectly.

2. He STILL has probable cause FOR THE STOP based on instrument readings.. IF after determining this reading might be due to excessive vibrations, he STILL GAVE HER A TICKET for speeding he would be wrong..

3. IF her vehicle was vibrating significantly enough to cause vibrations that could confuse most modern handhelds AT A DISTANCE OF MORE THAN 10 FEET, he could have easily sited her for excessive noise in most jurisdictions... (that would STILL have to be pretty fucking loud)

4. Radar does not use 'vibration' to determine speed, at least not in the manner your post implies. A more accurate way to state it is that Radar uses timing of reflected waves... this timing could have been less accurate because of a vibrating target, however stating that radar uses 'vibration', or would be significantly affected by the vibrations of the target in determining 'near' ground speed, simply shows you are ignorance on the fundamental principles of Radar..

5. Tuning forks are used to calibrate LEO handhelds because they vibrate AT SPECIFIC SPEEDS for each frequency... unless she was listening to a very fast metronome (aka one that pulsed in beats per millisecond), very very loudly (and admittedly much rap music comes pretty close ) the vibrations of the target in conjunction with the return period of the radar wave are averaged over time (several seconds, a DAMN long time in the radar world) and even the cheapo handhelds would have either given an 'accurate enough' reading of her speed to cue the LEO that it was excessive, or been fooled enough to NOT RETURN a specific speed at all.. (Commercially available Radar 'jammers' use this principle to prevent accurate enough readings for ticketing..)

Solomon may have been wise, but he obviously doesnt know shit about Radar or Wave Theory...

i've seen the tapes, she brought this incident entirely on herself by escalating a bad situation SHE put herself in in the first place...IMO the officer should have pepper sprayed her instead of tazered.. it has less significant physical effects and would have most likely rendered her very compliant long enough to cuff her...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[fallingchip 0]

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The equipment is not suited to distinguish between speed and vibration. As a matter of fact, the equipment utilizes vibration to determine speed.
Ever hear of the tuning fork?

Ever hear of the Doppler Tone and Visual Estimation. Ever hear of the three must in verifying speed with a speed measuring instrument to prevent false readings. The RADAR does not utilize vibration to determine speed. The speed is MEASURED by calculating the time it takes for a WAVELENGTH to travel from the antenna to the target and back to the antenna. And by the way, a vibration from speaker will not register speed. The tuning fork doesn't calabrate by vibration. The prongs move rapidly at a MEASURED distance allowing the attennas frequency WAVELENGTHS (not vibrations) to be measured.

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When will We put our foot down and demand an end to this Facist ,police state???
What has happened to Freedom in the land where we have govwernment agents demanding our"papers please"?

You might want to read the US Constitution. It doesn't say shit about having a right to drive. A state ALLOWS you the PRIVILEGE (not right) to drive and you must follow their rules, (ie; speeding, seatbelts, registration, lights in working order, driving sober...ect.) or you will not be allowed to keep the PRIVILEGE. And if your PRIVILEGE is taken from you and you get caught driving due to not following the states motor vehicle laws (rules) you get to go to jail.

______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[fallingchip 0]

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...IMO the officer should have pepper sprayed her instead of tazered.. it has less significant physical effects and would have most likely rendered her very compliant long enough to cuff her...

I have been hit with both pepper spray and the taser. Required to carry them. The taser is much more humane IMO. I would rather be tased 100 times than be pepper sprayed once.

______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[airtwardo 7]

Ever hear of the Doppler Tone and Visual Estimation. Ever hear of the three must in verifying speed with a speed measuring instrument to prevent false readings. The RADAR does not utilize vibration to determine speed. The speed is MEASURED by calculating the time it takes for a WAVELENGTH to travel from the antenna to the target and back to the antenna. And by the way, a vibration from speaker will not register speed. The tuning fork doesn't calabrate by vibration. The prongs move rapidly at a MEASURED distance allowing the attennas frequency WAVELENGTHS (not vibrations) to be measured.


***

Not for nuthin'..but they showed that on "mythbusters" ...your stereo isn't a way out of a ticket!



Gotta side with the cop on this one...
first the speed gun just confirmed it..but she was 16 over in a 35...he can SEE that w/o the gun which would draw interest...tail light , wind screen, seat belt, reasons for the stop.

If you dispute that...go to court & make an argument...don't tell the cop 'his job'...
(scratchin' the lions balls)

And what happened to common courtesy?
Much less obeying the LAW??

An officer asks for your license...GIVE IT TO HIM!

Asks you to put out the cigarette, put down the cell phone, step out of the vehicle....DO IT!

And for those unaware...even a small person can resist enough to the point it takes several larger people to physically made them comply. I'm not talking about fighting......just 'resisting'.

Why should a peace officer have to possibly get injured by trying to force someone to do what they're asking? The requests were not unreasonable by any means.

If you get popped for something....whether you feel you did it or not...do what the cop says. If he's wrong, sort it out in court...you'll stand a much better chance of winning if 'resisting arrest' isn't one of the charges.

If the light bar comes on in the rearview, and you're 'dirty'...it's time for damage control...not a time to dig yourself in deeper.


I should know...

I fought the law.....and the LAW won!


(more times than i care to remember!)

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tcnelson 1]

maybe it's just me...but all your talk about the electromagnetic spectrum is making me hot!!

good explanation too.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[78RATS 0]

Under Texas law, she has to "use force" against the officer before she is "resisting". The most she did was fail to comply with a lawful order. IMO, police should not use this type of force to simply gain compliance with a command.

I have no problem with the concept that "she deserved it", but that doesn't make it lawful. Police would be shocking people all day if the standard was who deserves it.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[tcnelson 1]

ok. i was talking about the radar thing but, since you bring it up, i think george carlin said it best when he voiced, "I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you are running from them."

i know she wasn't running but i felt free to extrapolate.
btw...i'm biased as i was once an MP.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Treejumps 0]

Eagle-dung,

Your writing and thought process remind me of Jackie Chiles (the lawyer on Seinfeld). Unfortunately you don't seem to be trying to be funny with what you write, and that is sad.

It is pretty pathetic that you really think that this women did not bring this on herself. Personally, I don't care for most cops, and yeah, I think the tazering was a little premature, but if you really believe that this incident was caused by anything other than speeding and having an attitude (I'm sure you think that she acted propally) you are in worse shape than anyone could imagine.

The stero excuse is old, wrong, and simply stupid. Just as you cannot hear the sound of a dog wistle (can you?) a radar wave is WAY to far up the frequency range to "hear" a stereo. Too bad it doesn't hurt to be so illogical.

[tcnelson 1]

i agree with you on where the fault lies but, just so you know, radar employs radio waves or sometimes microwaves (both right next to each other in the spectrum), not sonic waves.

read zenister's post on this. the vibration that radar can "pick up" has to do with calibrating the transmitting antenna to the proper frequency and thus wavelength, not sonic waves that the vibration might induce.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[sinker 0]

i just want you all to know how funny I've found this thread! i've spit my cookies and milk on the screen more than once, dammit!

and hell yes that lady deserved what she got. too bad more folks don't get that when they resist/are beligerent/mouth off to police like that.

gawd, I get so sick and tired of SOME black people pullin the race card everytime something doesn't go their way. mind you, most people of african american [what a lame term, as if blacks only came from africa?] decent don't do this, but in the city where I live, nashville, I see it all the time. In fact, a senator from another city in my state got busted by the feds for bribery, conspiracy, etc. and he had the NERVE to claim it was b/c he is black! There were half a dozen or more state politicians arrested in the same sting, both black and white. Give me a break. The funny thing is that when you look at the guy (Sen. Ford), it's actually a little hard to tell he's "a person of color." He's got the whole Michael Jackson pale complexion going on.

I must confess that in watching this video, I've experienced just a wee bit of schadenfreude...

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[eaglenrider 0]

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Eagle-dung,]

__________________________________________________

Is that a personal attack?
Your posts sound like those of that moron Treetop on the other site. Are you he?
Blues,
Cliff
Wisdom of Soloman ,
Beau to Sweet Penelope Purebread

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[eaglenrider 0]

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The equipment is not suited to distinguish between speed and vibration. As a matter of fact, the equipment utilizes vibration to determine speed.
Ever hear of the tuning fork?

Ever hear of the Doppler Tone and Visual Estimation. Ever hear of the three must in verifying speed with a speed measuring instrument to prevent false readings. The RADAR does not utilize vibration to determine speed. The speed is MEASURED by calculating the time it takes for a WAVELENGTH to travel from the antenna to the target and back to the antenna. And by the way, a vibration from speaker will not register speed. The tuning fork doesn't calabrate by vibration. The prongs move rapidly at a MEASURED distance allowing the attennas frequency WAVELENGTHS (not vibrations) to be measured.
__________________________________________________

Yes , Thank you officer,

Did you hear the prosecutions' scientific witness when he was discussing radar ?
Did you hear Mr. Zenister when he said;"1. unless he was VERY close he would be unable to determine that the vibration of her vehicle could possibly be causing his instrument to read incorrectly. "

This statement from the prosecutions' own *expert* witness implies that vibrations from the vehicle *can* cause the "instruments to read incorrectly".
Did the officer on the scene, the one making the arrest ,know of the limitations of the equipment?
If not , shouldn't he have known? Why didn't he know of the equipments limitations?
Shouldn't a prudent law enforcement officer consider *all of the facts* before tossing around ACCUSATIONS and making Arrests of the law abiding citizens?
Considetring the Prosecutions testimony, can you still say ,without a shadow of a doubt , that this nice BLACK woman was speeding?

Blues,
Cliff

Blood of Melenik II

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[eaglenrider 0]

I have been hit with both pepper spray and the taser. Required to carry them. The taser is much more humane IMO. I would rather be tased 100 times than be pepper sprayed once.

[justinb138 0]

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Did you hear Mr. Zenister when he said;"1. unless he was VERY close he would be unable to determine that the vibration of her vehicle could possibly be causing his instrument to read incorrectly. "

Did it magically make it look like she was going 15mph over the limit too? Did it also break her tail light and windshield? Did the "inaccurate" radar gun make her drive with a suspended license or be a bitch and resist arrest?

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This statement from the prosecutions' own *expert* witness implies that vibrations from the vehicle *can* cause the "instruments to read incorrectly".

You *can* get killed from an asteroid falling from the sky. Your point?

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Did the officer on the scene, the one making the arrest ,know of the limitations of the equipment?

It's not hard to SEE when someone is going 15 over the limit. The radar is simply a tool to confirm it.

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Shouldn't a prudent law enforcement officer consider *all of the facts* before tossing around ACCUSATIONS and making Arrests of the law abiding citizens?

He didn't arrest a law abiding citizen.

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Considetring the Prosecutions testimony, can you still say ,without a shadow of a doubt , that this nice BLACK woman was speeding?

I'm sure the officer would. As well as resisting arrest, driving w/ a suspended license, and a few other things. Being black had nothing to do with it. Committing a crime did. Get over it, She is guilty.

[justinb138 0]

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You seem to think yourself somewhat knowledgeable in this field.

Much more so than you. It's his job.

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Do you realize that the use of both pepper spray and taser weapons have had fatal results in *real world* scenarios?

Do you realize that the use of lawnmowers has had fatal results in *real world* scenarios?

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And if you do know this to be the case,
would you agree that the use of the taser on the subject in question was an excessive use of force?

It worked and no one was really hurt were they?

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I mean there were two officers on the scene, do you really believe that "fatal force" was required to place her under arrest?

Do you really believe that she had to be such an uncooperative bitch and resist arrest? If they used "fatal force", she'd be dead right now.

[eaglenrider 0]

You might want to read the US Constitution. It doesn't say shit about having a right to drive. A state ALLOWS you the PRIVILEGE (not right) to drive and you must follow their rules,
__________________________________________________

Officer Falling Chip,
Are you familiar with the IX Ammendment?
Obviously you are not.
Let me tell you that at the time of the Founding Fathers of this once great nation, no one would have imagined the state attempting to declare that riding horses as a means of transportation is a privelage.
Is walking to ones destination a "privelage" which the state can also deny? No Sir!!!!!!!!
Unencumbered travel is a Right. It is covered in the IX Ammendment.

Blues,
Cliff
Blood of Soloman

[tcnelson 1]

1. expert testimony is many times formed around theory and not reality. learn some science and discover for yourself.

2. being sprayed with oleoresin capsicum (i know...big phrase that i thought i'd never use again) is far worse than being hit with 500,000 volts. that brings me to my next point-->learn about potential and current as it applies to electricity and the human body. here's a good starting point: find out how much potential difference there is in a common static electricity shock felt from rubbing your socks on the carpet and touching a handy piece of metal that is grounded. i'm guessing that you'll be suprised.

anyway, as far as *real world* fatalities...one could make many *real world* people die by subjecting them to a stiff dose of adrenaline like, oh say, giving them a parachute and an instructor and forcing them to jump out of an airplane.

and yes, i am knowledgeable in these matters.

i'll sum up: if any of you do not want to be subjected to pepper spray, tasers, gunshot wounds, tonfas (pr-24's), or long stays in jail, don't fight the cops.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[tcnelson 1]

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Let me tell you that at the time of the Founding Fathers of this once great nation

it's still great; it's the best nation on earth to live in.

driving is defined as a privilege in every state in this great country by the way...next!

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[eaglenrider 0]

Being black had nothing to do with it.
__________________________________________________

Really? And you know this to be a fact.., How?

Tell me Justin,
How many "white women" did this officer pull over for speeding that day?
How many did he 'Tayz"?

Is he a member of the Fraternal Order of Police?
The white cop organization with ties to freemasonry and Albert Pike?

Does he "Tayz" "white folk "with the same frequency as he "Tayzes" the people of color?

A clear case of white cop/black driver, in other words..,
Driving While Black!!!!!!

Blues,
Cliff
Blood of Archduke Francis Ferdinand,
Eddy Murphy,and Gumby Dammit!

[eaglenrider 0]

2. being sprayed with oleoresin capsicum is far worse than being hit with 500,000 volts.
and yes, i am knowledgeable in these matters.
__________________________________________________

So you do know then , Mr. Tonelson , of many subjects who died ass a reasult of taser or pepper spray? Is that what you are saying?

Blues,
Cliff
Blood of the Queen of Sheba

[tcnelson 1]

your posts are getting better and better.

your credibility is going down like a hooker with a gambling addiction.

as you suggested to justin...find facts and form a worthwhile opinion, please.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329