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QuoteWar Powers Resolution of 1973
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Public Law 93-148
93rd Congress, H. J. Res. 542
November 7, 1973
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Well looky here ,Marty! We got us a full fledged card carrying too much information poster!
All he had to add to the discussion to back our point was this one line out of all that text;
"C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement. "
But Bush hasn't complied with that portion of the rule , has he? Has he given us any "estimated duration"?
So the president is in violation of the rule,isn't he.
Next.
Blues,
Cliff
QuoteQuoteWar Powers Resolution of 1973
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Public Law 93-148
93rd Congress, H. J. Res. 542
November 7, 1973
__________________________________________________
Well looky here ,Marty! We got us a full fledged card carrying too much information poster!
All he had to add to the discussion to back our point was this one line out of all that text;
Ah, I'm sure that would have been enough for a certified genius like you, but this forum isn't really about you is it? There are others who might have been slightly interested in the entire text. You wouldn't deny them access to the information, being open minded and all, would you?
Quote"C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement. "
Sure he has. He said when the Iraq govt. asked us to leave we would.QuoteBut Bush hasn't complied with that portion of the rule , has he? Has he given us any "estimated duration"?
Sure he has. He said as soon as hostilities abate, we will leave.QuoteSo the president is in violation of the rule,isn't he.
Nope, not by a long shot. Why is it Conyers hasn't made a legal challenge? Hmmmm......????
Next.
QuoteHas he given us any "estimated duration"? So the president is in violation of the rule,isn't he.
Well, I'm sure he is sorry that he didn't call you personally and tell you what the estimated duration was.
Quote"the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement."
That is a pretty broad term. Technically, Bush saying the duration would be less than 100 years would qualify. The statement says nothing about the accuracy of the estimated scope or duration. I doubt that this statement you mentioned was overlooked.
Next...
Quote"C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement. "
Sure he has. He said when the Iraq govt. asked us to leave we would.
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Estimated duration is?
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Sure he has. He said as soon as hostilities abate, we will leave.
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again, estimated duration is ?
Blues,
Cliff
Quote
again, estimated duration is ?
Less than a billion years. Technically, it's correct.
Now do you have a point or do you just like typing?
Well, I'm sure he is sorry that he didn't call you personally and tell you what the estimated duration was.
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That is a pretty broad term. Technically, Bush saying the duration would be less than 100 years would qualify. The statement says nothing about the accuracy of the estimated scope or duration.
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He could say 100 years and Congress could then say "Fuck that". See the rules have reason. They are part of the checks and balance between the branches.
As the president has yet to fulfill his obligation to provide congress with an estimated duration, the war is Un constitutional.
Next.
Blues,LOL!
Cliff
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Quote"the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement."
That is a pretty broad term. Technically, Bush saying the duration would be less than 100 years would qualify. The statement says nothing about the accuracy of the estimated scope or duration.
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He could say 100 years and Congress could then say "Fuck that". See the rules have reason. They are part of the checks and balance between the branches.
As the president has yet to fulfill his obligation to provide congress with an estimated duration, the war is Un constitutional.
Next.
Blues,LOL!
Cliff
QuoteQuote
again, estimated duration is ?
Less than a billion years. Technically, it's correct.
Now do you have a point or do you just like typing?
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I see you are trying to make the same point twice.
Sorry.
You missed the reason for the rules both times.
Blues,
Cliff
QuoteHe could say 100 years and Congress could then say "Fuck that". See the rules have reason.
Okay, so when did congress say "fuck that" ?
Until they do, I don't see any problems.
QuoteQuoteHe could say 100 years and Congress could then say "Fuck that". See the rules have reason.
Okay, so when did congress say "fuck that" ?
Until they do, I don't see any problems.
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It matters not what Congress does or doesn't do, Justin.
Fact is the Executive is not in compliance with the rules of law and has violated the trust of the people.
If the people cannot trust their government, the Executive, The Legislative, or the Judicial branches to abide by our Constitution there is only one remedy.
So what are you going to do?
Going to let them send your kids off to foreign lands to die in an illegal war? Or are you going to kick them out of their positions and brring them up on charges?
Oh!
I misspoke.
There are two things you can do under those circumstances. I overlooked the fact that cowardly men can approve of their governments illegal actions and try to convince others that an illegal government isn't all that bad of a master.
Blues,
Cliff
Quote
It matters not what Congress does or doesn't do, Justin.
Obviously it does.
Quote
Fact is the Executive is not in compliance with the rules of law and has violated the trust of the people.
Ok, so prove it. I've yet to see anything factual.
Quote
If the people cannot trust their government, the Executive, The Legislative, or the Judicial branches to abide by our Constitution there is only one remedy.
By that do you mean come on here and bitch about it?
Quote
So what are you going to do?
Skydive and have a beer or two on Saturday. You?
QuoteGoing to let them send your kids off to foreign lands to die in an illegal war?
I don't have any kids, and if/when I do, it will be up to them if they want to be in the military.
Please define "legal" war.
Quote
Or are you going to kick them out of their positions and brring them up on charges?
It would take much more than just one person to do that. One person bitching about it here on DZ.com sure as hell isn't going to change anything.
Quote
I misspoke.
I'm pretty used to it.
Quote
I overlooked the fact that cowardly men can approve of then governments illegal actions and try to convince others that an illegal government isn't all that bad of a master.
So you're saying that men that aren't cowardly will start a thread on here to complain about it?
QuoteQuote
It matters not what Congress does or doesn't do, Justin.
Obviously it does.Quote
Fact is the Executive is not in compliance with the rules of law and has violated the trust of the people.
Ok, so prove it. I've yet to see anything factual.
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You've not been following this thread veryclosely, have you?
Blues,
Cliff
nanook 1
QuotePlease define "legal" war
I've always wondered about that too. Legal and Illegal and war used in the same sentence seems as logical as saying "I think I can green."
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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
QuoteYou've not been following this thread veryclosely, have you?
Blues,
Cliff
Other than you griping about an "illegal" war, there hasn't been much to follow.
Quote... whether or not Bush and Co, had decided to go to war against Iraq as early as 2002.
Help me out here...I'm confused on the point of "when" the decision was made....what does it matter "when" the decision was made?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuote... whether or not Bush and Co, had decided to go to war against Iraq as early as 2002.
Help me out here...I'm confused on the point of "when" the decision was made....what does it matter "when" the decision was made?
It doesn't matter. Conyers was talking about impeaching Bush long before the war. Back then it was over Enron, Bush's Nazi Heritage, Haliburton, and other lunatic conspiracy theories. Expect this to continue as the Dems lose more and more support and become more desparate.
Had Saddam Hussein complied with the U.N. Resolutions, there wouldn't have been any war.
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Public Law 93-148
93rd Congress, H. J. Res. 542
November 7, 1973
Joint Resolution
Concerning the war powers of Congress and the President.
Resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SHORT TITLE
SECTION 1. This joint resolution may be cited as the "War Powers Resolution".
PURPOSE AND POLICY
SEC. 2. (a) It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.
(b) Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
(c) The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
CONSULTATION
SEC. 3. The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations.
REPORTING
SEC. 4. (a) In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced--
(1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances;
(2) into the territory, airspace or waters of a foreign nation, while equipped for combat, except for deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces; or
(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--
(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;
(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and
(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.
(b) The President shall provide such other information as the Congress may request in the fulfillment of its constitutional responsibilities with respect to committing the Nation to war and to the use of United States Armed Forces abroad
(c) Whenever United States Armed Forces are introduced into hostilities or into any situation described in subsection (a) of this section, the President shall, so long as such armed forces continue to be engaged in such hostilities or situation, report to the Congress periodically on the status of such hostilities or situation as well as on the scope and duration of such hostilities or situation, but in no event shall he report to the Congress less often than once every six months.
CONGRESSIONAL ACTION
SEC. 5. (a) Each report submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1) shall be transmitted to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate on the same calendar day. Each report so transmitted shall be referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives and to the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate for appropriate action. If, when the report is transmitted, the Congress has adjourned sine die or has adjourned for any period in excess of three calendar days, the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate, if they deem it advisable (or if petitioned by at least 30 percent of the membership of their respective Houses) shall jointly request the President to convene Congress in order that it may consider the report and take appropriate action pursuant to this section.
(b) Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted or is required to be submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1), whichever is earlier, the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces with respect to which such report was submitted (or required to be submitted), unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States. Such sixty-day period shall be extended for not more than an additional thirty days if the President determines and certifies to the Congress in writing that unavoidable military necessity respecting the safety of United States Armed Forces requires the continued use of such armed forces in the course of bringing about a prompt removal of such forces.
(c) Notwithstanding subsection (b), at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution.
CONGRESSIONAL PRIORITY PROCEDURES FOR JOINT RESOLUTION OR BILL
SEC. 6. (a) Any joint resolution or bill introduced pursuant to section 5(b) at least thirty calendar days before the expiration of the sixty-day period specified in such section shall be referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives or the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate, as the case may be, and such committee shall report one such joint resolution or bill, together with its recommendations, not later than twenty-four calendar days before the expiration of the sixty-day period specified in such section, unless such House shall otherwise determine by the yeas and nays.
(b) Any joint resolution or bill so reported shall become the pending business of the House in question (in the case of the Senate the time for debate shall be equally divided between the proponents and the opponents), and shall be voted on within three calendar days thereafter, unless such House shall otherwise determine by yeas and nays.
(c) Such a joint resolution or bill passed by one House shall be referred to the committee of the other House named in subsection (a) and shall be reported out not later than fourteen calendar days before the expiration of the sixty-day period specified in section 5(b). The joint resolution or bill so reported shall become the pending business of the House in question and shall be voted on within three calendar days after it has been reported, unless such House shall otherwise determine by yeas and nays.
(d) In the case of any disagreement between the two Houses of Congress with respect to a joint resolution or bill passed by both Houses, conferees shall be promptly appointed and the committee of conference shall make and file a report with respect to such resolution or bill not later than four calendar days before the expiration of the sixty-day period specified in section 5(b). In the event the conferees are unable to agree within 48 hours, they shall report back to their respective Houses in disagreement. Notwithstanding any rule in either House concerning the printing of conference reports in the Record or concerning any delay in the consideration of such reports, such report shall be acted on by both Houses not later than the expiration of such sixty-day period.
CONGRESSIONAL PRIORITY PROCEDURES FOR CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
SEC. 7. (a) Any concurrent resolution introduced pursuant to section 5(b) at least thirty calendar days before the expiration of the sixty-day period specified in such section shall be referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives or the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate, as the case may be, and one such concurrent resolution shall be reported out by such committee together with its recommendations within fifteen calendar days, unless such House shall otherwise determine by the yeas and nays.
(b) Any concurrent resolution so reported shall become the pending business of the House in question (in the case of the Senate the time for debate shall be equally divided between the proponents and the opponents), and shall be voted on within three calendar days thereafter, unless such House shall otherwise determine by yeas and nays.
(c) Such a concurrent resolution passed by one House shall be referred to the committee of the other House named in subsection (a) and shall be reported out by such committee together with its recommendations within fifteen calendar days and shall thereupon become the pending business of such House and shall be voted on within three calendar days after it has been reported, unless such House shall otherwise determine by yeas and nays.
(d) In the case of any disagreement between the two Houses of Congress with respect to a concurrent resolution passed by both Houses, conferees shall be promptly appointed and the committee of conference shall make and file a report with respect to such concurrent resolution within six calendar days after the legislation is referred to the committee of conference.
Notwithstanding any rule in either House concerning the printing of conference reports in the Record or concerning any delay in the consideration of such reports, such report shall be acted on by both Houses not later than six calendar days after the conference report is filed. In the event the conferees are unable to agree within 48 hours, they shall report back to their respective Houses in disagreement.
INTERPRETATION OF JOINT RESOLUTION
SEC. 8. (a) Authority to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances shall not be inferred--
(1) from any provision of law (whether or not in effect before the date of the enactment of this joint resolution), including any provision contained in any appropriation Act, unless such provision specifically authorizes the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into such situations and stating that it is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of this joint resolution; or
(2) from any treaty heretofore or hereafter ratified unless such treaty is implemented by legislation specifically authorizing the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into such situations and stating that it is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of this joint resolution.
(b) Nothing in this joint resolution shall be construed to require any further specific statutory authorization to permit members of United States Armed Forces to participate jointly with members of the armed forces of one or more foreign countries in the headquarters operations of high-level military commands which were established prior to the date of enactment of this joint resolution and pursuant to the United Nations Charter or any treaty ratified by the United States prior to such date.
(c) For purposes of this joint resolution, the term "introduction of United States Armed Forces" includes the assignment of member of such armed forces to command, coordinate, participate in the movement of, or accompany the regular or irregular military forces of any foreign country or government when such military forces are engaged, or there exists an imminent threat that such forces will become engaged, in hostilities.
(d) Nothing in this joint resolution--
(1) is intended to alter the constitutional authority of the Congress or of the President, or the provision of existing treaties; or (2) shall be construed as granting any authority to the President with respect to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations wherein involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances which authority he would not have had in the absence of this joint resolution.
SEPARABILITY CLAUSE
SEC. 9. If any provision of this joint resolution or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the remainder of the joint resolution and the application of such provision to any other person or circumstance shall not be affected thereby.
EFFECTIVE DATE
SEC. 10. This joint resolution shall take effect on the date of its enactment.
CARL ALBERT
Speaker of the House of Representatives.
JAMES O. EASTLAND
President of the Senate pro tempore.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, U.S.,
November 7, 1973.
The House of Representatives having proceeded to reconsider the resolution (H. J. Res 542) entitled "Joint resolution concerning the war powers of Congress and the President", returned by the President of the United States with his objections, to the House of Representatives, in which it originated, it was Resolved, That the said resolution pass, two-thirds of the House of Representatives agreeing to pass the same.
Attest:
W. PAT JENNINGS
Clerk.
I certify that this Joint Resolution originated in the House of Representatives.
W. PAT JENNINGS
Clerk.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
November 7, 1973
The Senate having proceeded to reconsider the joint resolution (H. J.
Res. 542) entitled "Joint resolution concerning the war powers of Congress
and the President", returned by the President of the United States with his
objections to the House of Representatives, in which it originate, it was
Resolved, That the said joint resolution pass, two-thirds of the
Senators present having voted in the affirmative.
Attest:
FRANCIS R. VALEO
Secretary.
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