SpeedRacer 1 #1 June 15, 2005 http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/homegrownfuelsupplyhelpsbrazilbreatheeasy;_ylt=AuY9KBg1MrG_D.MXI19PEQYUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTBhcmN2azRyBHNlYwNjaWQ3MjE- Homegrown energy. I wish we could move faster on this sort of thing. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #2 June 15, 2005 THAT...is kick ass!Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #3 June 15, 2005 2 good points in that article... 1, they are using alternative fuels (Which the US should do, 2, they developed their own OIl reserves... Something the US should do!!!! Start drilling in Alaska.... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 June 15, 2005 QuoteI wish we could move faster on this sort of thing. President Bush, yesterday: We've got to be aggressive about finding alternative sources of fuel. And one such source is ethanol. Ethanol comes from corn -- and we're pretty good about growing corn here in America, we've got a lot of good corn growers. Therefore, it makes sense to promote ethanol as an alternative to foreign sources of oil. Ethanol can be mixed with gasoline to produce a clean, efficient fuel. In low concentrations, ethanol can be used in any vehicle. And with minor modifications, vehicles can run on a fuel blend that includes about 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. Ethanol helps our farmers find a new markets and helps us replace foreign crude oil. I mean, I like the idea of spending money on research to make ethanol more feasible, so that some day an American President says, show me the crop report. (Laughter.) As opposed to, how many barrels of crude oil are we importing? By the way, we can get the same type of alternative fuel from soybeans. It's called biodiesel. And that's a promising source of energy. I went to a biodiesel refinery in Virginia that is making fuel from soybean oil. Other producers are making biodiesel, by the way, from waste products like recycled cooking grease. Biodiesel can be used in any vehicle that runs on regular diesel. So as you get more clean diesel engines in America, biodiesel becomes an alternative fuel for them. It burns more completely and produces less air pollution than gasoline or regular diesel. It makes sense for the energy bill to encourage renewable sources of energy that are becoming much more practical and much more economic in today's world. To encourage greater use of ethanol and biodiesel, my administration supports a flexible, cost-effective renewable fuel standard as a part of the energy bill. This proposal would require fuel producers to include a certain percentage of ethanol and biodiesel in their fuel. I proposed $84 million in the 2006 budget for ongoing research into advanced technologies that can produce ethanol from farms, forests, or even municipal waste dumps. We've got a chance here as we go forward to do something smart, and that is figure out ways to use that which we grow or that which we dispose of to replace foreign sources of oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #5 June 15, 2005 Bet you didn't get that clip from CNN Bush doing something smart??? No, can't be!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 June 15, 2005 hell yeah! Non-fossil fuels are one thing everyone agrees on, regardless of party affiliation. nice speech by Bush there.I just wish we could make the transition faster. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kinaa 0 #7 June 15, 2005 QuoteI just wish we could make the transition faster. Why wait? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.htm] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #8 June 15, 2005 QuoteNon-fossil fuels are one thing everyone agrees on It's up to Congress to send an energy bill to Bush for signing. He doesn't have the authority to do it himself. The problem with renewable fuel, i.e. "ethanol", is that it is harmful to existing engines if used in high concentrations. Special engines would be required to burn it at full strength. That's going to take a long time to change, and there has to be infrastructure where every gas station sells it, and so on... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,600 #9 June 15, 2005 QuoteThat's going to take a long time The US started down the "gasohol" path in the mid-70's. I can remember the gas stations with the little corncobs on them. I believe Brazil started about the same time or shortly thereafter. However, Brazil kept doing it, and are much farther along. Here, I don't even see the gas stations with the little corncobs any more. Biodiesel is a little easier, as long as you have a diesel car. Hybrid also works. But what we can't do is to continue to whine about how hard it is while we keep buying big fucking SUVs so we can "haul our shit around" and "live in minimum comfort" and "deserve it." Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #10 June 15, 2005 QuoteBiodiesel is a little easier, as long as you have a diesel car. Hybrid also works. But what we can't do is to continue to whine about how hard it is while we keep buying big fucking SUVs so we can "haul our shit around" and "live in minimum comfort" and "deserve it." SUV sales have finally dropped sharply, but the bigger resistance is going to be to a less powerful engine. To prevent reliance on ethanol, it would only make sense to get a multi fuel acceptable engine, and I suspect it will not have the same pep we're used to, just as seen with diesel. Already I'm aware of diesel motorcycles that get over 200mpg, but unfortunately the top speed is around 50. And I'd bet the acceleration is like a geo metro 3 cyclinder. As long as we have the choice between passing power and fuel economy/viability, I see us picking the former. Hybrids do seem to bridge the gap a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #11 June 16, 2005 clicky no workee. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kinaa 0 #12 June 16, 2005 I see, it won't work for me now, either. Try this then: http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=biodiesel+make&sp-a=000807b3-sp00000000 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 June 16, 2005 Quotewhat we can't do is to continue to whine about how hard it is while we keep buying big fucking SUVs Are you in favor of the government dictating what types of cars we can buy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #14 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuotewhat we can't do is to continue to whine about how hard it is while we keep buying big fucking SUVs Are you in favor of the government dictating what types of cars we can buy? Good God NO!!!! Then we couldn't buy these: Does this make me look stupid? Three have been sold in Phoenix so far. Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #15 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuotewhat we can't do is to continue to whine about how hard it is while we keep buying big fucking SUVs Are you in favor of the government dictating what types of cars we can buy? It's inevitable, John. The alternative of letting freedom and meaningless CAFE standards isn't working all that well for us. We've proven that given a choice, we'll think in the short term only. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 June 16, 2005 QuoteIt's inevitable. Nothing is inevitable. (Except death and taxes) QuoteThe alternative of letting freedom and meaningless CAFE standards isn't working all that well for us. We've proven that given a choice, we'll think in the short term only. The rising fuel prices of late have already put a dent in SUV sales. Freedom is letting the market decide, which it will, as prices continue to rise. Public awareness education can help too. If the soccer moms will put down their cell phones long enough to realize that spending $60 per week on gas for a Lincoln Navigator to go to the grocery store is just stupid. Wondering how you're going to pay for your next tank of gas is also "short term" thinking, and will unleash long-term thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #17 June 16, 2005 people are spending $30-60,000 on their SUVs. It's a bit silly to complain about spending an extra grand on gas each year. When we got up to $2, not much changed. Now that we're broaching 3, there is some movement, but it only affects the next purchase. Expecting the market forces to fix American behavior is foolish. Americans don't pay the true cost of gas, at least not at the pump. If we have to tap our limited reserves in Alaska to feed this need now, rather than in 30 years, we've definitely taken a hit. So have we for these recent wars that have a significant oil background in them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #18 June 17, 2005 I like the part about "we have a lot of good corn growers". Seriously though we should be moving toward renewable fuels at a far faster pace then we are. Hopefully congress can pass an energy bill this year with an eight billion gallon ethanol mandate. That would more than double the current production. By the way where would you rather see your energy come from? A Middle East oil field, or a Mid-West corn field here in the USA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #19 June 17, 2005 I like the part about - "Today about 40% of all the fuel that Brazilians pump into their vehicles is ethanol, known here as alcohol," and... "Brazil showed it can be done, but it takes commitment and leadership," said Roland Hwang, vehicles policy director for the Natural Resources Defense Council in San Francisco." Key words/phrases - known here as alcohol, it can be done, takes commitment and leadership. 2 points: 1) we don't have the commitment nor the leadership to get it done nor do we want to go to the expense - it seems that we would rather wait until the oil supply tanks out and deal with the emergency. 2) Alcohol? How cool is that? Fill up the tank and fillup the 5th bottle at the same time! I'm all for that! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,600 #20 June 17, 2005 Quoteleadership OK, one thing to consider is that Brazilians have not had a consistent leadership over all those years. They left behind a dictatorship, and have suffered through corruption and hyper-inflation during the time. While motoring on toward this. It takes leadership, but it also takes the people buying into it because they see the advantage. Gasohol in the US in the 70's was more expensive than gasoline. Only serious environmento-weenies with some extra money bought it. It will take some form of encouragement from the government. And while I don't think big fucking SUVs should be outlawed (there are people who need them), I'd like to see a little bit less of the profit-and-pander motive out there that makes them so attractive. Profit is not, in fact, the sole arbiter of what is good. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #21 June 17, 2005 QuoteAmericans don't pay the true cost of gas, at least not at the pump. Who is subsidizing our gasoline purchases? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 June 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteAmericans don't pay the true cost of gas, at least not at the pump. Who is subsidizing our gasoline purchases? taxpayers. And T bill holders, which in time get paid by taxpayers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #23 June 17, 2005 I am not sure how that one works.... Let's see. Oil $55/barrel - 55gal/barrel = $1.00/gal of oil. Must be refined so add another $.5/gal So gas is approx $1.50/gal. State tax $.40/gallon Fed Tax $.18/gal (guesses mind you) $2.08/ gallon. I don't see how the taxpayer is subsidizing it, if we are paying a tax to use it. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #24 June 17, 2005 QuoteI am not sure how that one works.... Let's see. Oil $55/barrel - 55gal/barrel = $1.00/gal of oil. Must be refined so add another $.5/gal So gas is approx $1.50/gal. State tax $.40/gallon Fed Tax $.18/gal (guesses mind you) $2.08/ gallon. I don't see how the taxpayer is subsidizing it, if we are paying a tax to use it. I could be wrong, but I don't think 55gal of gas comes out of 55gal of crude oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #25 June 17, 2005 you probably aren't wrong... however, I threw in 50 cents/ gallon for refining.... that could be 25 cents actual cost plus the 25% lost during the refining processes. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
