Oops. I forgot to mention this:
No, I wasn't going to say anything of the sort. I think I explained my understanding of the word "homophobic" far better than that in my first post. Are you intentionally misunderstanding me or is it accidental?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
QuoteWhat's your next comment going to be?
Something along the lines of "You don't agree with me ergo you are homophobic.", eh?
No, I wasn't going to say anything of the sort. I think I explained my understanding of the word "homophobic" far better than that in my first post. Are you intentionally misunderstanding me or is it accidental?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Shotgun 1
QuoteQuoteI don't know about that. *Some* skydivers I know are extremely homophobic. I remember being shocked by that when I first got into the sport.
Name calling and put-downs come from both sides of the fence, eh?
I don't agree with homosexuality so therefore I'm "homophobic"...yeah, whatever....
She said that she knows "some skydivers" that are extremely homophobic. I don't see how that translates into her calling _you_ homophobic.(???)
But to answer the original question...
I have no idea how many gay skydivers I know because I don't usually ask people what their sexual preferences are. I can think of at least a few that I know because they are open about it... And one who _claims_ to be gay, but I'm not so sure that I believe him.
You first...let's be more specific...
Apologies for assuming that the "general sense" would be recognized...
QuoteQuoteI don't know about that. *Some* skydivers I know are extremely homophobic. I remember being shocked by that when I first got into the sport.
Name calling and put-downs come from both sides of the fence, eh?
You appear to be saying that people who don't agree with homosexuality are therefore "homophobic"...yeah, whatever....
Apologies for assuming that the "general sense" would be recognized...
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Shotgun 1
QuoteApologies for assuming that the "general sense" would be recognized...
The way you originally wrote it sort of sounds like you think she is talking about you.
Either way, I have seen plenty of people who defiintely exhibit homophobia (beyond simply not caring for homosexuality themselves), so I don't really see why you are assuming that she is calling someone homophobic without just cause.
Second you...
What association? That your use of the "extremely homophobic" phrase is name calling - to whomever it was directed - *some*, *any*, *all* or *you*?
Maybe my response to Shotgun clarifies somewhat.
Your original statement, to paraphrase, "some skydivers are homophobic" seems to indicate that you were surprised by that. You just don't get it and would rather argue minute points of semantics....SURPRISE! not everyone agrees with, likes, accepts, condones, or even tolerates your choice of lifestyles. Save yourself and others a lot of grief and get over it. Go skydiving and have some fun.
Why am I doing this?....closed minds do not think...they regurgitate.....whatever
Quote...(I want to remind us both that you're one who made the association. ...)
What association? That your use of the "extremely homophobic" phrase is name calling - to whomever it was directed - *some*, *any*, *all* or *you*?
Maybe my response to Shotgun clarifies somewhat.
Your original statement, to paraphrase, "some skydivers are homophobic" seems to indicate that you were surprised by that. You just don't get it and would rather argue minute points of semantics....SURPRISE! not everyone agrees with, likes, accepts, condones, or even tolerates your choice of lifestyles. Save yourself and others a lot of grief and get over it. Go skydiving and have some fun.
Why am I doing this?....closed minds do not think...they regurgitate.....whatever
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Quote...so I don't really see why you are assuming that she is calling someone homophobic without just cause.
Tell me what constitutes 'just cause" for name-calling and put-downs, eh?
It's alright if I call you homophobic but it's not OK if you call me
(please excuse the use of the "general sense" here)
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Back to the original question:
I don't know of many gay skydivers....as was mentioned previously by someone, mostly the ones I do know are women.
I don't know of many gay skydivers....as was mentioned previously by someone, mostly the ones I do know are women.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Shotgun 1
Ok...... I'm not even sure who you're replying to now... So I'll just agree on the "whatever...." part.
You seem to be offended by the word "homophobic" and that's your right, so I'll just leave it at that.
You seem to be offended by the word "homophobic" and that's your right, so I'll just leave it at that.
QuoteThe way you originally wrote it sort of sounds like you think she is talking about you.
again, with respect to the original way I wrote it - apologies for assuming that the "general sense" would be recognized...
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
You're right...forget it...you seem to be unable to grasp the gist of the conversation which was name-calling.
Wait a minute...are you ignoring the "just cause" for name-calling question?
Wait a minute...are you ignoring the "just cause" for name-calling question?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
mmatute started the thread...
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Rebecca 0
Dude. You have shredded this thread. 
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?
my apologies Rebecca....couldn't let the name-calling go by unchallenged.
Now back to our regularly-scheduled programming....
Now back to our regularly-scheduled programming....
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Steel 0
QuoteQuoteName calling and put-downs come from both sides of the fence, eh?
I don't agree with homosexuality so therefore I'm "homophobic"...yeah, whatever....
It's not clear why you identify with Tigra's post (which didn't mention you) if it doesn't apply to you. We learn a lot by what others spontaneously deny.
--
On a bigger topic, I do wish someone would explain what "I don't agree with homosexuality" means. Does that mean you don't share our opinion that Johnny Depp is totally hot? That's ok. You don't have to agree with us on that one.
If that's all it is, then no. Not agreeing/sharing our infatuations does not make you homophobic. But if your phrase "don't agree with homosexuality" means you harbor ill will to us for loving in the 'wrong way', then yes. I think that's the very definition of homophobia.
And in that case I'd have to say that yes, Tigra's comment maybe does apply to you. But in a clinical way, not a name-calling way. Don't you agree?
It looks like you are defining Homophobia. However, what your doing is wanting it to be negative so you pick something you don't like (related ofcourse) and say "that is it."
Lets think what it really means. It comes from homo short for homosexuality or homosexual and phobia, fear of. Kind of like arachnaphobia or triskadekaphobia. (I don't care if I mis-spelled that.) That does not mean that you think aracnids should be condemned, it just means they scare you. And the other doesn't mean you think the number 13 should be abolished, it just means your afraid of it.
So who that you call a homophobe is really afraid of homosexuality or homosexuals? Probably not many. And if they are, why would you care?
Then there is the thing about agreeing with homosexuality. You went from extreme to extreme but avoided the obvious answer. People who say they don't agree simply are stating that they don't think its a valid choice. In other words that its wrong, disfunctional. Just because you think something is disfunctional doesn't mean you really care about it or think something needs to be done about it. For instance I think smoking or drinking are disfunctional. But I don't care who does it or why. I just think its an unhealthy lifestyle that they lead. And while we are throwing statements like this around, I will say that I think homosexuality is an unhealthy lifestyle. But just like cigarettes or alcohol, I don't care who does it or why, and I do believe the its their nature. Therefore, they can not change it by choice. But still its your problem not mine.
Cheers,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
wmw999 2,583
Promiscuity is a lifestyle choice. It's got a good possibility of being unhealthy.
Homosexuality is a statement about the gender you're attracted to vs. the gender you are. There are woman homosexuals too -- very few people who are "against the lifestyle" rail about them.
And people can choose to have sex with people who aren't necessarily in their attraction range. There are homosexuals (people whose natural sexual attraction is to the same gender) who have intercourse with members of the opposite gender.
There are people who are naturally are attracted to the opposite sex who have intercourse with members of the same gender.
If one is only repulsed by the thought of a man "doing it" with another man, and just doesn't really care about women etc., it might be time for a good hard look in the mirror.
Wendy W.
Homosexuality is a statement about the gender you're attracted to vs. the gender you are. There are woman homosexuals too -- very few people who are "against the lifestyle" rail about them.
And people can choose to have sex with people who aren't necessarily in their attraction range. There are homosexuals (people whose natural sexual attraction is to the same gender) who have intercourse with members of the opposite gender.
There are people who are naturally are attracted to the opposite sex who have intercourse with members of the same gender.
If one is only repulsed by the thought of a man "doing it" with another man, and just doesn't really care about women etc., it might be time for a good hard look in the mirror.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Steel 0
If one is only repulsed by the thought of a man "doing it" with another man, and just doesn't really care about women etc., it might be time for a good hard look in the mirror.
================================
I agree with most of what you said, as I don't see contradicting what I said, rather just covering different topics. However, this that you post about repulsion makes me wonder what you mean one should look in the mirror for. Because to lay the blatant truth on the table, its just not the same thing. It seems like it would be fair to equade them but they are different. It is a fact and you know that if two attractive females were to start making out in a public theater, that a very large significant portion of the males would find this arousing and I would venture to say that most women wouldn't care. (Any women who disaggree can correct me if they think I am wrong). Flip that situation around and as much as it may bother you, the results would simply not be the same. Are you saying that all these guys who would find this arousing are really gay? What should we be looking in the mirror for?
================================
I agree with most of what you said, as I don't see contradicting what I said, rather just covering different topics. However, this that you post about repulsion makes me wonder what you mean one should look in the mirror for. Because to lay the blatant truth on the table, its just not the same thing. It seems like it would be fair to equade them but they are different. It is a fact and you know that if two attractive females were to start making out in a public theater, that a very large significant portion of the males would find this arousing and I would venture to say that most women wouldn't care. (Any women who disaggree can correct me if they think I am wrong). Flip that situation around and as much as it may bother you, the results would simply not be the same. Are you saying that all these guys who would find this arousing are really gay? What should we be looking in the mirror for?
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
QuoteI think homosexuality is an unhealthy lifestyle
Do you mean unhealthy as in "damaging to the body and reducing lifespan"? If so, I would love to compare the lifespans and likelihood of activity-related mortality in the following groups:
* Homosexuals
* Smokers
* Drinkers of alcohol
* Skydivers
Wouldn't it be odd to hear someone say, "I don't agree with skydiving. It's an unhealthy lifestyle"?
It would also be interesting to compare these groups:
* Promiscuous homosexuals
* Promiscuous heterosexuals
* Monogamous homosexuals
* Monogamous heterosexuals
I suspect we'd find sexually transmitted disease is highly correlated with promiscuity, not with homosexuality. But even if shown proof of that, we can all be sure the homophobes wouldn't change their opinions.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
rehmwa 2
Funny, so far comments:
homophobes are "especially in the south"
homophobes are "mainly old timers"
claims of blatant definition engineering of the term on both sides
accusations of unrecognized self closetted people
skydivers are more "laid back"
others
I think skydiving is a typical subpopulation full of all the same little self congratulating and petty biases as the rest of the general population.
Edit: it's 'petty' not 'patty'. I don't think there's anything freudian there...
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
homophobes are "especially in the south"
homophobes are "mainly old timers"
claims of blatant definition engineering of the term on both sides
accusations of unrecognized self closetted people
skydivers are more "laid back"
others
I think skydiving is a typical subpopulation full of all the same little self congratulating and petty biases as the rest of the general population.
Edit: it's 'petty' not 'patty'. I don't think there's anything freudian there...
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kelel01 1
You can deny deomgraphics if you wish, and of course, I have no evidence to support my claim. But the south is somewhat notorious for having a larger population of bigots, regarding all types of minorities. It's just my perception.
beowulf 1
Quote
Wouldn't it be odd to hear someone say, "I don't agree with skydiving. It's an unhealthy lifestyle"?
Actually I have heard that, just not stated in those words.
But I can kinda agree. Skydiving is dangerous and can lead to unhealthy close encounters with mother earth. Therefore it could be said to be an unhealthy lifestyle. But I choose not to spend my life worrying about dying.
kelel01 1
Calling someone a homophobe isn't name calling, just FYI. It's like calling someone a racist. You either hate/fear other races/sexual orientations, or you don't. If you do, then you're a racist or a homophobe. That's like saying you have to have a PC term for all forms of hatred, which is ridiculous. 
Ron 10
QuoteOn a bigger topic, I do wish someone would explain what "I don't agree with homosexuality" means.
It means we don't agree with it....How hard is that?
QuoteBut if your phrase "don't agree with homosexuality" means you harbor ill will to us for loving in the 'wrong way', then yes. I think that's the very definition of homophobia.
There is a third option between your "love us or you are a homophobe".
That option is, "I don't agree with homosexuality, if it is your thing fine. But don't expect me to support it, encourage it, or vote for it. Don't force me to make a choice, and I will not bother."
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Ron 10
QuoteCalling someone a homophobe isn't name calling, just FYI. It's like calling someone a racist. You either hate/fear other races/sexual orientations, or you don't. If you do, then you're a racist or a homophobe. That's like saying you have to have a PC term for all forms of hatred, which is ridiculous
From Bills post:
"Personal attacks
It is important to realize that a personal attack is any attack (slurs, insults, denigrations, implications about their mothers, etc) or threat against another poster. Any such attack is not permitted here. This is true even if you are absolutely, 100% sure that the poster is stupid, or ignorant, or childish, or an ass. It doesn't matter if you think it is true or not, or even if you can prove they are an ass. You can't post such messages here."
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1155892#1155892
By the definitions...Calling someone a Homophobe is an attack.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Now you claim you meant the first, innocent meaning (that you simply "prefer heterosexuality") but got so riled about the second that you call me an asshole, presumably just for mentioning the possibility that's what you meant. (I want to remind us both that you're one who made the association. I simply talked about that might or might not make it true.)
What does this teach us? Your attitudes are confusing at the very least.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites