How many gays...??

[tigra 0]

OK- its debatable whether the term homophobe is derogatory or a personal attack. (I'm leaning towards NOT, but that's not even the point!) The point is, I did not call anyone a homophobe. I simply stated that I had encountered homophobic skydivers and that was in direct response to someone else saying that the skydiving community as a whole was completely accepting of homosexuality.

Geez- I really need to stay out of this place!

[Ron 10]

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The rules never even mention the phrase "name calling". So that's clearly YOUR interpretation of the rules

She said (Her words):

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Calling someone a homophobe isn't name calling

Sure it isaccording to aleast one Moderator:

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"Personal attacks

It is important to realize that a personal attack is any attack (slurs, insults, denigrations, implications about their mothers, etc) or threat against another poster. Any such attack is not permitted here. This is true even if you are absolutely, 100% sure that the poster is stupid, or ignorant, or childish, or an ass. It doesn't matter if you think it is true or not, or even if you can prove they are an ass. You can't post such messages here."

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1155892#1155892


By the definitions...Calling someone a Homophobe is an attack, even if you think you are correct.

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And you said, "Calling someone a homophobe is a personal attack". That may well be true, but it is not, nor was it ever the issue.

She said it was not an attack, and it is according to the rules. So it was the issue you tried to jump on me for. If it was not the issue why did you bother to try and jump my shit about it?

Its pretty clear she said that calling someone a homophobe is not a PA, and it is also quite clear that it is.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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OK- its debatable whether the term homophobe is derogatory or a personal attack. (I'm leaning towards NOT, but that's not even the point!) The point is, I did not call anyone a homophobe. I simply stated that I had encountered homophobic skydivers and that was in direct response to someone else saying that the skydiving community as a whole was completely accepting of homosexuality.

I never said you called anyone a homophobe...ever. All I did was point out that it could be a personal attack.

I got banned for calling a guy a lawyer once.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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He injects himself into every single thread....period.

Yep, its a free forum, and kinda the whole point of a forum....They don't like it? They don't have to read my posts.

And thats also not true....There are 54353 threads just in BF...I don't have that many posts, so by definition your comment is wrong.

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But your calling him "cute" is meant to be offensive I think

Why? I take no offense...I'm a damn sexy bitch!!!

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[narcimund 0]

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You like to make people think everyone is out to get you.

And thats also not true....There are 41113 registered users on dropzone.com...I don't have that many posts, so by definition your comment is wrong.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelel01 1]

Again, "name calling" is nowhere in those rules! Do you have special glasses you're looking through?

And I still say it's not "name calling", per se. It's "labeling", but not name calling.

And again, that's NOT THE ISSUE. She did not name call or attack. Period.

It's absolutely exhausting to argue with someone who twists words and meanings around. So PLEASE stop and read what we're saying.

[Ron 10]

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Again, "name calling" is nowhere in those rules! Do you have special glasses you're looking through?

If I call you a bigot...It is an attack. If you call me an idiot...It is an attack. If someone calls someone a homophobe it is also an attack.

Pretty simple.

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And I still say it's not "name calling", per se. It's "labeling", but not name calling.

If it offends, it is an attack no matter what you call it.

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And again, that's NOT THE ISSUE. She did not name call or attack. Period.

Never said she did..

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It's absolutely exhausting to argue with someone who twists words and meanings around. So PLEASE stop and read what we're saying.

Why don't you stop and read it? She said that it was not an attack...And it is.

It is anoying to argue with someone who refuses to look past the argument they want to see.

Consider this done...I see no point in trying to point out the obvious to someone who refuses to bother to look.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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And thats also not true....There are 41113 registered users on dropzone.com...I don't have that many posts, so by definition your comment is wrong.

just because you don't post to them does not mean you don't THINK they are out to get you.

I'd like to hear your words, but your sig line says it all. "Second class citizen ". It goes to show your victum complex.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kelel01 1]

Ok, IN THIS CASE, it was not an attack. Yet you are going out of your way to prove that in some made up case, it is. Fine. It could be, in this mysterious made up example of yours.

How the hell is that relevant to this thread?

[narcimund 0]

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your sig line says it all.

You know, I used to change my sig line every once in a while when I came up with something new. But this one gets you guys so riled up I know it's a keeper!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[tigra 0]

Actually, I equated calling someone homophobic with calling someone arachnophobic and asked if you thought calling someone arachnophobic was a personal attack. In my opinion, it is not. Obviously, YOU don't like the "label"-maybe it struck a nerve?- but the term "homophobe" is not in the same category as idiot, a**hole, bigot or jerk. It is not derogatory by definition. Its a lot closer to "lawyer" which you said for some reason you got banned for using.

[Ron 10]

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You know, I used to change my sig line every once in a while when I came up with something new. But this one gets you guys so riled up I know it's a keeper!

It does not get me riled up...I do think it shows your victim complex quite well.

It is comical...So at best you make me laugh.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Girlfalldown 0]

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ading previous "gay" post.
A question.

How many gays "skydivers" do you know?

Do you think "skydive" is an sport that gays do?

In Spain I only know two ones. My boyfriend and I



Regards.

Back to the original thought.

I know a few gay skydivers. I know a lot more bi skydivers. I think it's just like everything else. We get a little bit of everything in our group. I have lots of gay friends and I enjoy their company. I like people that are open minded and maybe it's just my friends but they seem a lot more open minded and tolerant than other people.

I also know a few homophobic people at some of the dropzones I jump at. It kind of makes me sad to see tandems come in and have to listen to all the gay jokes by the TMs. The TMs have no idea if these people are gay or not and it's obvious they don't agree with the lifestyle so sometimes that scares tandem students off after a jump. I actually saw this happen a couple years ago. 2 cute guys, obviously gay because I saw them making out in their car before the jump. I was on the same load as them and the TMs were making all kinds of derogatory gay jokes because these guys just didn't look gay at all. They did the jump and the guys left immediately totally unhappy. It was obvious why to me.


Ok that's my little story.

--------------

(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[tigra 0]

Careful, you'll be accused of making derogatory comments and personal attacks!

Otherwise- great post!

[kelpdiver 2]

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In other words, the worst tool to fight irrational behavior, is more irrational behavior. That's militant activists do. They just congratulate themselves on how enlightened they are and treat everyone else like neanderthals. You convert no one and alienate more.

"militant activist" here is akin to terrorist - it's someone that is on the other side of an issue from you, and doesn't fight/act in a manner you like.

A more useful definition would be - an activist that no longer believes their goals can be achieved passively. It's very clear that gays will not be given the right to marry in this country if they sit and wait. Very rarely in our history have minorities gained rights without having to fight for it. And yes, rarely does the majority on the other side like it, or the methods used.

But if you have to argue on the methods rather than the subject at hand, is that an admission you have no leg to stand on?

And Ron, sorry, you do care. About this matter, about pot smokers, about a lot of things you claim to have a live and let live attitude about.

[skydyvr 0]

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I'm shocked by no one perpetuating any kind of hatred. I don't like it, but I'm never surprised. Particularly in the south.

LOL.

If you want to see *particularly* real hatred, just put on your white male skin and take a pedestrian hike through any inner-city slum area in the northeast or on the west coast. Those are the true bastions of racism in the US today. In the south, it's on the decline.

. . =(_8^(1)

[narcimund 0]

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just put on your white male skin and take a pedestrian hike through any inner-city slum area in the northeast or on the west coast. Those are the true bastions of racism in the US today. In the south, it's on the decline.

That's odd. I live smack dab in the middle of an inner city (by which you mean "black") slum on the west coast and I'm a white male. I've never had a problem in 6 years.

But I'm sure you're far more knowledgeable about it than I am. What do I know?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[skybill 22]

Hi MM,
How many "Gays" in the sport? Or is that "Gay" or "Bi??" Who knows?
As for "Homophobes," depends on how far you take it?? I know of a couple of student jumpers, (we all worked for the same company at the time) who while on S/L student status expressed that they wanted no part of this "Relative Work" stuff as they were totally repulsed by "holding hands!!" with another man in freefall!!!! (grippers not withstanding!!!) I thought it a bit odd and blew off the trip. They never progressed past a dozen jumps and quit the company anyway. I've read of a few other people (men) with similar thoughts. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[skydyvr 0]

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But I'm sure you're far more knowledgeable about it than I am. What do I know?

Like you, I merely expressed an opinion based on personal experience.

. . =(_8^(1)

[rehmwa 2]

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But if you have to argue on the methods rather than the subject at hand, is that an admission you have no leg to stand on?

I haven't stated a position on the "subject at hand". Don't much care.

But I believe the 'subject at hand' has become the rules of personal attacks and some semantics stuff that seem to be out to pick on Ron for some reason. Frankly, it's a bunch of people on pretty well the same side but arguing over how tactfully to present it. So who cares?

But I do have a position on the methods used by the self congratulatory types in the world today on several subjects, so that's what I'm focusing on. If you don't want to go there, no biggie. Buts it's not really usable to support or disprove some position that you imagine I might have. BTW - the self superior presentation and belittlement of the 'other side' is used by both the pro and the anti gay communities. At least the "militant activists" of both sides. So pick a position and pretend I'm on one of them and knock yourself determining if I have a 'leg to stand on'.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants