popsjumper 2 #76 June 17, 2005 Quote... but I do what I do, you do what you do, and stop trying to make everyone agree with it, cause I dont think thats a realistic idea.. QuoteThat option is, "I don't agree with homosexuality, if it is your thing fine. But don't expect me to support it, encourage it, or vote for it. Don't force me to make a choice, and I will not bother." BINGO! But even spelled out so plainly, some of us will just not get it.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #77 June 17, 2005 "I don't agree with skydiving, if it is your thing fine. But don't expect me to support it, encourage it, or vote for it. Don't force me to make a choice, and I will not bother." Hmm... Still... It's interesting how replacing one word makes it much less offensive. This is called "grudging tolerance" rather than "hate" - you're not gonna get shot by these kind of people (like in relatively rare rampant cases of homophobia). Replace the one word with anything else, to get another perspective. Personally, I steer clear of politics. This is not an invitation for popsjumper to make a response, but just a thought for all of us to go through that some of us are a little jumpy (from all sides). Maybe I am too. Let's not waste too much time with people who don't quite support gays, and just move on. Life's simpler that way. On the same vein, it's simpler not arguing with whuffos who obsessively keep arguing why you shouldn't skydive. Just respect their on-the-ground lifestyle and move on. Steer clear away from petty politics since it's just nitpicky stuff, bigger fish to fry out there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #78 June 17, 2005 Quote"I don't agree with skydiving, if it is your thing fine. But don't expect me to support it, encourage it, or vote for it. Don't force me to make a choice, and I will not bother." Hmm... Still... It's interesting how replacing one word makes it much less offensive. Personally, I steer clear of politics. You were really good up to this point. But then you blew it with: Quote...Let's not waste too much time with people who don't quite support gays... My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #79 June 17, 2005 Quote...Let's not waste too much time with people who don't quite support gays... Rephrase: "Let's not waste too much time in petty debate with people who don't quite support gays..." I'd just like to have fun in the sport. Leave the real debates to the politicians and the people who vote for them, and the lobbying from all sides (organized activism), things like that. Just keep it out of the sport, please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #80 June 17, 2005 Quote..."Let's not waste too much time in petty debate with people who don't quite support gays..." Still doesn't work...are you implying that those who "don't quite support gays" are not worth debating? I hope not...that would be very un-PC. FYI, this has not been a debate...it has been an arguement... about who said what about whom. Welcome the the Speakers Corner where issues are only brought up and argued...never resolved.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #81 June 17, 2005 QuoteStill doesn't work...are you implying that those who "don't quite support gays" are not worth debating? I hope not...that would be very un-PC. FYI, this has not been a debate...it has been an arguement... about who said what about whom. Welcome the the Speakers Corner where issues are only brought up and argued...never resolved.I'll just requote: Leave the real debates to the politicians and the people who vote for them, and the lobbying from all sides (organized activism), things like that. I'll do my debating over there in more worthy debate venues, if I feel like to debate or uphold rights, etc. But when it comes to skydiving, all I ask is respect as a skydiver, not what I do in the rest of my life. As long as I am respected as a skydiver, I don't really care who I jump with as long as we all have fun and they don't push their beliefs into my face. I respect them as skydivers back. Much like two persons of two different religions. They don't necessarily believe each other's religions but can still play tennis together or whatever. That is clearly different from "hate". Of course, I'm just a plain 'ol Canadian. You wouldn't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #82 June 17, 2005 QuoteDo you think "skydive" is an sport that gays do? God! where do you people live anyway? Is this the 1980's? When would "being gay" ever become an issue? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #83 June 17, 2005 Quote I don't really care who I jump with as long as we all have fun and they don't push their beliefs into my face. Great point! QuoteOf course, I'm just a plain 'ol Canadian. You wouldn't understand. Ahhh....but I almost do...I have the colored money almost figured out! I love Canadians....Michael J. Fox, McKenzie Brothers, jury is still out on what is it, Molson's? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #84 June 17, 2005 QuoteNobody fucking called anyone a homophobe! Although I did see Andy call someone an asshole. Listen, read her post: she referred to homophobes IN GENERAL. We refer tio everyone in general. Read it, then try to tell me that's a personal attack. It wasn't pointed at ANYONE You said: QuoteCalling someone a homophobe isn't name calling, just FYI. It's like calling someone a racist. You either hate/fear other races/sexual orientations, or you don't. If you do, then you're a racist or a homophobe. That's like saying you have to have a PC term for all forms of hatred, which is ridiculous And according to the rules on this forum it IS. Take a breath and chill out."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #85 June 17, 2005 QuoteIt's actually quite complex No, you make it complex, its quite simple unless you are looking for a reason to get pissed off. I can not want to live that life, AND think you should not either. As long as I don't interfear with your life style it is still nothing. And as I said before, don't make a big deal out of it and give me only the two options YOU want, "Support my lifestyle, or you are evil and oppressive." MOST people fit into my choice of, "Don't make me choose and I will not bother....But if you make me choose be ready to accpet that I may not go the way you want". Don't make me vote on it, don't jump in my face about it, and I could not give a shit who you sleep with. Get in my grill and call me your enemy since I don't agree with your lifestyle, and then make me choose....Well you get what you get. I'd rather just not give a shit, and not bother to take a stand."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #86 June 17, 2005 QuoteActually, there's all kinds of phobias, and people who suffer from them are ****phobic. A phobia is a fear, typically an irrational fear. If I called someone arachnophobic, would THAT be derogatory? Thats for a Mod to make that call. She said it was not, but Bill wrote something that said it can be."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #87 June 17, 2005 QuoteOddly, even though you're responding to a post of mine where I offered two options, these aren't mine. I guess I'll ask you the same question I asked someone else above: Are you intentionally misunderstanding me or is it an accident? It is the past options you have offered. Like I said, I'd rather not be bothered to care."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #88 June 17, 2005 Quotegotta love definitions so broad that nearly anything can fit under them, and nearly anything can be avoided by a simple addition of "you are exihbiting {insert label of your choice} behavior... in fact, but the strict application of 'the definition' , iam about to commit a personal attack..... Ron... you are a SKYDIVER.... If you have a problem with the definitions take it up with Bill, and HH."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #89 June 17, 2005 Quote"I don't agree with skydiving, if it is your thing fine. But don't expect me to support it, encourage it, or vote for it. Don't force me to make a choice, and I will not bother." Hmm... Still... It's interesting how replacing one word makes it much less offensive. I agree....Interesting argument. I really hope people can see that I don't care who sleeps with who. I also don't care if people BASE jump. I don't like BASE. I don't care if people smoke pot, even though I don't. I don't care if people want to own cats, even though I hate them. A gay person who is not always trying to start an argument, or make me support the lifestyle...ect. Is just another person. I have gay friends, we even talk about issues that effect them. (To the point that one thought I was interested.....Ah no, but thanks anyway). It is the militant of any group that damage the whole group. QuoteOn the same vein, it's simpler not arguing with whuffos who obsessively keep arguing why you shouldn't skydive Or for the whuffos to not bother with the skydivers who are always trying to start an argument about how whuffos need to support skydivers rights. Whuffos don't need to support the rights of skydivers. It does not mean that they HATE skydivers....It may be that they just don't care about the lifestyle and are not interested in it. For the record...I don't like the militant of almost any group. If someone jumps in my face and demands anything...They will not get it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RfukfreeflyingW 0 #90 June 17, 2005 QuoteAs long as I am respected as a skydiver, I don't really care who I jump with as long as we all have fun and they don't push their beliefs into my face. so.. Do you not like me because of my screename? ---- -God, you are the perfect amount of dumb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #91 June 17, 2005 It's so cute how you methodically inject yourself into every single thread that mentions homosexuality just to argue at great length that you don't care in the least. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #92 June 17, 2005 QuoteIt's so cute Thanks, but you are not my type."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #93 June 17, 2005 Nice attempt at a spin, Ron. You posted the rules for PERSONAL ATTACKS. Randomly saying the word homophobe is neither name calling nor a personal attack. It wasn't directed at anybody, hence, the rules don't apply. Again, read her post, and I triple dog dare you to find a way to take exactly what she said and turn it into an attack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #94 June 17, 2005 Ron, you've now posted TEN times in this thread with lengthy arguments about how much you don't care. We're convinced! You're not gay. You don't want to be gay. You don't hate gays. You don't even THINK about gays. You don't obsess about gay sex. You never think about how cute that guy over there is... about his lips... how warm it would feel to... or about the tastes... or the sounds men make when they... You don't think about that at all. Your heterosexuality is complete and total. It never enters your mind. We're convinced! Your ten long posts have made the point perfectly clear!!! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #95 June 17, 2005 QuoteIf rationality is supposed to be part of the conversation, then the people in B2 have to come up with a rational reason why they care.... But that's the point. The B2's have an unreasonable position. But calling them derogatory names and being in their face is-not-going-to-get them to listen to rationality. In other words, the worst tool to fight irrational behavior, is more irrational behavior. That's militant activists do. They just congratulate themselves on how enlightened they are and treat everyone else like neanderthals. You convert no one and alienate more. (crap, I didn't really want to get into the cause of the downslide of the democratic, green, and far right political parties, but there it is). I'm just saying what it takes to get more people to listen. Less emotion, more rationality. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #96 June 17, 2005 QuoteIt's so cute how you methodically inject yourself into every single thread that mentions homosexuality just to argue at great length that you don't care in the least. He injects himself into every single thread....period. But your calling him "cute" is meant to be offensive I think.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #97 June 17, 2005 I just have to ask - what's B2? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #98 June 17, 2005 Quote Nice attempt at a spin, Ron. You posted the rules for PERSONAL ATTACKS. Randomly saying the word homophobe is neither name calling nor a personal attack. It wasn't directed at anybody, hence, the rules don't apply. Again, read her post, and I triple dog dare you to find a way to take exactly what she said and turn it into an attack. OK lets break this down...she said: QuoteCalling someone a homophobe isn't name calling And the rules clearly say it is...I don't see how you are missing that. Now I didn't say she COMMITED a PA, but calling someone a homophobe IS. Just as if you called a person any other name. NAME CALLING IS NOT ALLOWED per the rules. If you call someone a name, then it is not allowed. Simple really, have aproblem with it, talk to the HH. Hell I got banned for calling a guy a laywer once."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #99 June 17, 2005 QuoteRon, you've now posted TEN times in this thread with lengthy arguments about how much you don't care. We're convinced! You're not gay. You don't want to be gay. You don't hate gays. You don't even THINK about gays. You don't obsess about gay sex. You never think about how cute that guy over there is... about his lips... how warm it would feel to... or about the tastes... or the sounds men make when they... You don't think about that at all. Your heterosexuality is complete and total. It never enters your mind. We're convinced! Your ten long posts have made the point perfectly clear!!! Well good. Maybe now you will not think I think of you as a second class citizen because of your sexual preference. But I doubt it...You like to make people think everyone is out to get you."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #100 June 17, 2005 The rules never even mention the phrase "name calling". So that's clearly YOUR interpretation of the rules. And you said, "Calling someone a homophobe is a personal attack". That may well be true, but it is not, nor was it ever the issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
