U.S Air Force Academy again

[slug 1]

www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1115331573

What's going on with our military leadership these alleged acts of religious intolerence at the Academy on the heals of the alleged sexual harressment incidents makes a person wonder about the current military leadership and the future leaders that the academy is turning out.

Is this stuff really going on? Anyone see a problem with it? Or is the media/left /right whatever just stirring the pot to sell newspapers.


R.I.P.


www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1115331573

[larsrulz 0]

Quote

Is this stuff really going on? Anyone see a problem with it? Or is the media/left /right whatever just stirring the pot to sell newspapers.

My opinion is someone is just stirring the pot. I went there and didn't detect the slightest bit of intolerance. You do have to understand that the majority of the individuals going to the Air Force Academy are Christian. It's a fact of the matter that some people will display some of that Christianity, as it is a large part of who they are, but I would bet that if someone ever raised the fact that they had a problem with something religious being displayed, then the problem would be resolved respectfully.

This came up earlier this year, and when it did I asked a number of my friends who may have experienced such intolerance (mainly a jewish friend and muslim friend), and both indicated they never sensed the slightest bit of intolerance. As far as the three issues cited, I never knew of professors doing such things and certainly never heard of a single military chaplain with such a horrible bias; certainly not one at the academy.

The most important thing to remember is that the separation of church and state doesn't require that individuals cannot have religion in their life....the people attending the academy are individuals...some people will be bothered by others living their lives religiously; if they feel that is intolerance, then that is a problem of theirs, not the people they live with.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[BenHall 0]

It's all a load of BS. I thought things were going fine religiously before, but NOW I, being a christian, am starting to feel infringed upon. It appears that it's okay to persecute/punish christians only. Stop the hatin'!!!

[BikerBabe 0]

Interesting. When did you graduate?

As a female grad who was not a christian when I was there, I think I might be qualified to comment on both issues.

First, the religion thing. At least when I went through basic training back in 1993, those who stayed in their rooms during the nightly church service were called "heathen flight", and we were often forced to march and practice drill while the vast majority of our classmates were at church. But on the other hand, there were just as many days when we were allowed to sit quietly in our rooms and do whatever it was we did in basic training when we didn't really have any personal possessions. Was it discrimination? Yep. Was it harrassment? Probably. Were we taught that being in the military meant sucking it up and driving on? Hell yes.

That's the difference. The "suck it up, be tough, and drive on" attitude was already starting to be on the way out when I got there, but it still clung. Now it's totally non-existent. I believe that's a huge disservice to the cadets, the leadership, the Air force, and ultimately, this country. The reason you're hearing about it now is because when I went through, we weren't allowed to whine. Now, all Basic Training (and the entire freshman year) is is six weeks of sensitivity training.

On to the other...

I was never sexually harrassed, personally. If I had been, no, I would not have been comfortable reporting it. But then again, my personal tolerance level of "harrassment" is pretty high. It's a hard road in any arena to be the victim of rape or sexual harrassment, since the victim is usually the one who ends up being crucified (by the courts, media, etc). Add to that the "cameraderie" of a military organization, the desire to protect your unit above each individual member of that unit becomes paramount, especially among young and impressionable people. Reporting things like that was generally seen a disruptive, and yeah, a lot of times it would be quashed.

Before you get your PC panties in a twist, realize that we were taught to be thick-skinned, and to not be offended by much. I knew what I was getting into. I knew that the AFA was 15% women. I knew how boys were. I wasn't about to call attention to myself by complaining about what was basically normal behavior by 18 year old boys. Please.

Unfortunately, those who actually were raped or harrassed probably felt very uncomfortable reporting it. Wouldn't you? Is there a way to fix that? probably not unless you just close the place down. The way they've tried to fix it is totally wrong, and it's leading to a generation of thin-skinned whiners.

I'm glad I got out of the AF when I did.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Spizzzarko 0]

Well what would you have General Weida do? I was an enlisted member at the academy from 2000-2004, and I saw a lot of change. Most of the change has been media driven. None of the leadership over looks complaints about harrasment, rape, or religious intolerance. That's not the way the AF is run. What does happen now is everyone is scared of taking any actions without fear of stepping on other peoples toes. As I said, the Academy (and the entire AF) is actively undergoing a bunch of changes. There is a new awakening to this warrior mentallity. I think the chief of staff of the AF was tired of looking at old fat members smoking with a cup of coffee in their hands, and complaining about everything. I think he was tired of it all being called the "Chair Force". I think all the heart ache is because people are hesitant to make changes. This warrior mentality will happen at the Academy faster than it will happen anywear else, as it is probably the only command that really get's a new set of members every four years. There is a mandatory pcs rule for active duty members at the academy. They can only stay there for 3-4 years. It didn't always be that way, as I personally know of several people who managed to homestead there for 15+ years. (I wouldn't want to do that.) I remember a great conversation with one of these people:

Me- "We want to change the way we do this."

Old timer- "We can't change that!"

Me- "Why not?"

Old Timer- "Because this is the way we have done it for the past 15 years!"

This guy was serious. Having the mandatory pcs rule is a good thing. This will allow for the old "Traditions" to fade away quickly, and for the new "Ethos" to gain a foot hold rather rapidly too. The AF isn't really like the navy were they let 200 years of great tradition hamper new progress.

Also the AF is in a mode of downsizing, so they are cutting the fat again. We don't have the money to waste on non-performers, while we change from a corporate entity to an actual fighting force. It's going to be a rough time of transition, while the AD member of teh Air Force get used to actually doing PT, and really deploying, but in five to ten years, it's going to be the way we have always done things.

I will admit, it's weird hearing Space Command weinnies saying "hooah". That makes me laugh when I hear them do that. I just keep thinking to myself "go back to your vault, and look at your computer monitor". They are the "lanyard of the spear".