Democracy in Lebanon

[billvon 3,131]

Free elections in Lebanon have resulted in a victory for the Hezbollah party. They are anti-UN, pro-military-solution, for religious involvement in government, and rabidly against the liberal and communist faction of Lebanon society. Despite these similarities, I have a feeling we won't be seeing Coulter and Limbaugh crowing about how democracy is on the march in the Middle East due to Bush's firm stand in defense of democracy.

Whatever the results of this, I think the odds of peace in the Middle East in our lifetimes just went down a bit.

[TheAnvil 0]

Hmmm...interesting Bill.

The elections of which you speak were only for the southern section of Lebanon. The rest of the nation will be voting over the next few weekends. If memory serves I believe Hezbollah was unopposed for 6 of 23 seats in the Southern region that were up for grabs. Given the concentration of Muslims in the south, their close proximity to the Israeli border, the concentration of Palestinians there, and the previous Israeli occupation there its small wonder Hezbollah won easily.

I think peace in the Middle East will be difficult regardless of who comes out ahead in the elections in Lebanon. As for the elections themselves, I am extremely glad they are taking place.

It is sad that Hezbollah is so powerful in any regard, however, given its stance on terrorism. Sickening, in fact. Hopefully the rest of the country votes for candidates more amicable to peace.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,131]

>If memory serves I believe Hezbollah was unopposed for 6 of 23 seats
>in the Southern region that were up for grabs.

True, and they weren't facing much in the way of organized opposition - the rest of the candidates were independents and communists.

>It is sad that Hezbollah is so powerful in any regard, however, given its
> stance on terrorism. Sickening, in fact. Hopefully the rest of the country
> votes for candidates more amicable to peace.

I am worried they may think that military strength and war are the keys to peace - and the Hezbollah seems to offer that option. Many countries (the US included) believe in that theory.

[Ron 10]

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Free elections in Lebanon have resulted in a victory for the Hezbollah party

Well at least they were free elections.

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They are anti-UN

Good, all the UN does is talk about doing things.

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pro-military-solution

Not good.

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for religious involvement in government

It is their government.

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and rabidly against the liberal and communist faction of Lebanon society

Good.

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Whatever the results of this, I think the odds of peace in the Middle East in our lifetimes just went down a bit.

Only if ALL the elections go like this as opposed to just the one section that has already voted.

Also if they are allowed to continue to have free elections this could change at the next election. Thats a good thing.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[TheAnvil 0]

Hezbollah does seem to offer that option, 'tis true.

Say what one might about the Syrian occupation, it did provide a modicum of stability in many regards. The civil war taking place prior to the Syrian/Israeli occupations was wreaking havoc upon the general populace. Hopefully these elections results in a government that can actually function. Maronite Christians, Druze, and different sects of Muslims all in one country in a region with such religious-based hatred. What a challenge.

I'm eager to see how the rest of the elections play out. Assad has to be happy with the latest round, that's for sure. With such a great outpouring of anti-Syrian sentiment in the wake of Hariri's assasination I find it hard to fathom the remaining elections will provide him much cheer.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Steel 0]

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Free elections in Lebanon have resulted in a victory for the Hezbollah party. They are anti-UN, pro-military-solution, for religious involvement in government, and rabidly against the liberal and communist faction of Lebanon society. Despite these similarities, I have a feeling we won't be seeing Coulter and Limbaugh crowing about how democracy is on the march in the Middle East due to Bush's firm stand in defense of democracy.

Whatever the results of this, I think the odds of peace in the Middle East in our lifetimes just went down a bit.

You bring up an interesting point by that. I remember a freind of mine, Arab but not Muslim, actually had an explanation. He said it was not in the best interests of the U.S. for these Middle Eastern countries to have a democracy, because he said, "80% of these people are Muslim psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on infidels. In other words the pretty picture that you and other liberals try to paint suggesting that the true Islam is about peace is not by any means accurate. So if you ask me there are a couple of options on the table. If these countries would outlaw Islam, then after a couple of generations of common sense, they could be worthy of a democracy. Or would could just dig in Alaska, not buy there oil and then they wouldn't have the money to pay for their Terrorism. At that point we could continue to help Israel while we are letting them to kill themselves off. Or we could go with your option to just pretend like we don't know who the terrorists are. Whenever somebody makes sense with their assesment we could start talking about Timothy McVeigh. Even if the other guy has mention 20 different instances we can continue to say well what about Timothy McVeigh. Yeah if we keep doing this, maybe the problem will just go away.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[kallend 2,175]

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Quote

Free elections in Lebanon have resulted in a victory for the Hezbollah party. They are anti-UN, pro-military-solution, for religious involvement in government, and rabidly against the liberal and communist faction of Lebanon society. Despite these similarities, I have a feeling we won't be seeing Coulter and Limbaugh crowing about how democracy is on the march in the Middle East due to Bush's firm stand in defense of democracy.

Whatever the results of this, I think the odds of peace in the Middle East in our lifetimes just went down a bit.

You bring up an interesting point by that. I remember a freind of mine, Arab but not Muslim, actually had an explanation. He said it was not in the best interests of the U.S. for these Middle Eastern countries to have a democracy, because he said, "80% of these people are Muslim psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on infidels. In other words the pretty picture that you and other liberals try to paint suggesting that the true Islam is about peace is not by any means accurate. .

So one guy tells you something, and that makes it the absolute truth?

Maybe it's just that voters, when free to express themselves, show that they are really pissed off with the west's interference in their region.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Steel 0]

So one guy tells you something, and that makes it the absolute truth?
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No one guys tells me something that is about the people he grew up around and it makes plenty of sense so I think its worth repeating. On the other hand I could listen to totally illogical arguements coming from your side and simply acept that as fact. But since I think the truth is more important than make everybody think your nice, I will go with the one that makes more sense.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[mikkey 0]

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I remember a freind of mine, Arab but not Muslim, actually had an explanation. He said it was not in the best interests of the U.S. for these Middle Eastern countries to have a democracy, because he said, "80% of these people are Muslim psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on infidels. In other words the pretty picture that you and other liberals try to paint suggesting that the true Islam is about peace is not by any means accurate. So if you ask me there are a couple of options on the table. If these countries would outlaw Islam, then after a couple of generations of common sense, they could be worthy of a democracy.

What a load of ignorant bigotry and racist tripe. The ignorance and disrespect for other cultures and religions shown by many posters here just illustrates why the US is not very much liked in the world community. Also the best way to grow and encourage terrorism.

Lets try to reverse this crap:

I remember a friend of mine actually had an explanation. He said 80% of Americans are fundamentalist christian psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on Muslims. In other words the pretty picture you and other conservatives try to paint suggesting that the true American spirit is about peace is not by any means accurate. ......

Sounds like Al Qaeda propaganda doesn’t it.

The stuff people in this forum post about Muslims and Islam reminds me too much of the stuff the Nazis spread about Jews in the 30's in order to build hatred in the general population.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[lurch 0]

-What a load of ignorant bigotry and racist tripe. The ignorance and disrespect for other cultures and religions shown by many posters here just illustrates why the US is not very much liked in the world community.-


Big hole in your cry of racism. The friend he is quoting, the guy who said these things, is an arab himself. This guy is doing the unthinkable: speaking truthfully and honestly about his own culture of origin. Bill Cosby got the same flak for having the balls to smack his own racial/cultural group for wasting itself on "Bling" and gank-sta culture. In a PC world truth is the biggest crime.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[wmw999 2,600]

It's only "honest" if you agree with it. If it doesn't pander to prejudice, then it's "just more of the same old crap," right?

What about Americans who, in fact, think we ARE throwing our weight around now? If they are taken as an authority, doesn't it count?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Steel 0]

He said 80% of Americans are fundamentalist christian psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on Muslims.
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This statement alone is so ridiculous that it sets a tone for the rest of your post. As much as it bothers you, it does not come even close to the accuracy of the reverse.
In any case I find it funny how people like yourself can be so clueless. I only wonder at times if you are really that clueless or if your just trying to argue?

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[kallend 2,175]

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He said 80% of Americans are fundamentalist christian psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on Muslims.
====================================
This statement alone is so ridiculous that it sets a tone for the rest of your post. As much as it bothers you, it does not come even close to the accuracy of the reverse.
In any case I find it funny how people like yourself can be so clueless. I only wonder at times if you are really that clueless or if your just trying to argue?

Funny how the US has troops in Islamic countries, isn't it. Your weak argument illustrates exactly the point he was making and you fail to see that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Steel 0]

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He said 80% of Americans are fundamentalist christian psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on Muslims.
====================================
This statement alone is so ridiculous that it sets a tone for the rest of your post. As much as it bothers you, it does not come even close to the accuracy of the reverse.
In any case I find it funny how people like yourself can be so clueless. I only wonder at times if you are really that clueless or if your just trying to argue?

Funny how the US has troops in Islamic countries, isn't it. Your weak argument illustrates exactly the point he was making and you fail to see that.

So then you agree with me that we should drill in Alaska and pull all our troops the hell out of Islamic controlled countries? Let them finish each other off? You can't have it both ways. Just like when they were killing each other off in Somalia. Do you think I gave a crap? No but I am sure you did.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Sounds like Al Qaeda propaganda doesn’t it.

The stuff people in this forum post about Muslims and Islam Americans and Christianity reminds me too much of the stuff the Nazis spread about Jews in the 30's in order to build hatred in the general population.

Fix it for you.

[kallend 2,175]

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Quote

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He said 80% of Americans are fundamentalist christian psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on Muslims.
====================================
This statement alone is so ridiculous that it sets a tone for the rest of your post. As much as it bothers you, it does not come even close to the accuracy of the reverse.
In any case I find it funny how people like yourself can be so clueless. I only wonder at times if you are really that clueless or if your just trying to argue?

Funny how the US has troops in Islamic countries, isn't it. Your weak argument illustrates exactly the point he was making and you fail to see that.

So then you agree with me that we should drill in Alaska and pull all our troops the hell out of Islamic controlled countries? Let the finish each other off? You can't have it both ways. Just like when they were killing each other off in Somalia. Do you think I gave a crap? No but I am sure you did.

I agree with half of your statement. We should pull our troops out and start a serious conservation effort. The oil in Alaska will not save us.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,609]

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Sounds like Al Qaeda propaganda doesn’t it.

The stuff people in this forum post about Muslims and Islam Americans and Christianity reminds me too much of the stuff the Nazis spread about Jews in the 30's in order to build hatred in the general population.

Fix it for you.

Well as far as I remember no-one has seriously suggested making DC into a glass parking lot, and most criticism of Americanism comes from Americans, so I think I liked it better the other way.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Quote

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Sounds like Al Qaeda propaganda doesn’t it.

The stuff people in this forum post about Muslims and Islam Americans and Christianity reminds me too much of the stuff the Nazis spread about Jews in the 30's in order to build hatred in the general population.

Fix it for you.

Well as far as I remember no-one has seriously suggested making DC into a glass parking lot, and most criticism of Americanism comes from Americans, so I think I liked it better the other way.

Wrong much of the Anti-Americanism/Anti-Christianity on this forum has come from Non-Americans. There are even some who have lived in the US for quite a while and never gotten US Citizenship who are some of the worst critics.

[billvon 3,131]

>people like yourself can be so clueless.

Your one warning.

[billvon 3,131]

>What a load of ignorant bigotry and racist tripe.

Please tone that down. It does not break the rules, literally speaking, but it comes very close.

[SpeedRacer 1]

So let's see if I can sum up this thread:

Half the people are saying it's wrong to be bigoted against Americans.

And half the people are saying it's wrong to be bigoted against Muslims/Arabs.

So I guess we all agree then.

Speed Racer
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[Steel 0]

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>people like yourself can be so clueless.

Your one warning.

Oh I am sorry, I guess if I would have instead said what a load of clueless jibber, I wouldn't have broken any rules.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[mikkey 0]

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So let's see if I can sum up this thread:

Half the people are saying it's wrong to be bigoted against Americans.

And half the people are saying it's wrong to be bigoted against Muslims/Arabs.

So I guess we all agree then.

Well, a different way of making my point. I find it really surprising that certain people don’t get it.

I just replaced a few words in an utterly bigoted and racist statement from Steel against Arabs/Muslims with America/Christians to demonstrate the point (that it was a ridiculous and insulting statement) and certain people do not even understand that. Sad really.

And a comment to Billvon: I do not understand how deeply racist posts are accepted here but pointing out the fact that they are is “border line” to breaking forum rules?

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[TheAnvil 0]

Dude - would you all chill out on Bill? He and I were having a nice e-conversation about Lebanese politics until this thread was hijacked. He's doing his job as a mod.

Back to the subject at hand, pre-hijack, does anyone think the old pre-occupation civil war factions in Lebanon might re-emerge and once again start fighting one another? Is this a possibility? If so, should the US welcome any Syrian or Israeli intervention to keep the peace/stability?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[sfc 1]

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Back to the subject at hand, pre-hijack, does anyone think the old pre-occupation civil war factions in Lebanon might re-emerge and once again start fighting one another? Is this a possibility? If so, should the US welcome any Syrian or Israeli intervention to keep the peace/stability?

I think we should send an army of US tequila drinking midgets to show their women how to rub bellies and feed grapes and then the males will be too busy to fight.