kelpdiver 2 #151 June 8, 2005 Quote The only thing I keep hearing is "it's invasion of my privacy and Innocent until proven guily" Is that the best you can come up with. If it is then I will never listen or understand! Is LA no longer a state in the USA? We're talking about founding principles here. And for the record, I knew quite a few potheads that had no problem with prescreens. Easy to pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #152 June 8, 2005 Quote Because if your in a job that has any danger to it, what is the first thing that happens if there is an accident and OSHA shows up. It is my company's policy to send people for a drug test if they are involved in an accident, mainly for insurance purposes. It doesn't mean they should randomly test people all the time, and they don't, unless they have a compelling reason to. Lets imagine another example, without any illegal drugs (weed, coke, etc..) Have you ever taken any prescription drugs that weren't yours? Would you agree that if someone had a sore back or something and took some vicodin a friend had to help get to sleep one night that it wouldn't hurt anything? Wouldn't it suck to get selected for a random drug test a week or so later and get fired for something that had absolutely no impact on your ability to do your job? I don't use any illegal drugs, hell I rarely even drink. What I do in my house is my own business, not my employers, provided it does not impact my ability to do my job. Can I make it any clearer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #153 June 8, 2005 Quote I still cant find where it says that I have the right to get baked whenever I want to and nobody can Judge Me about it. And if you want to know about freedom just go look up my military career at what I did to help freedom. It's all part of public records so if you want to take the time be my guess! Doesn't mention drugs, but it is called the 4th Amendment. Something like this: Quote The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #154 June 8, 2005 Quote The only thing I keep hearing is "it's invasion of my privacy and Innocent until proven guily" Is that the best you can come up with. If it is then I will never listen or understand! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is LA no longer a state in the USA? Quote As far as I know it is but I just moved here a few months ago. As for the Other part. (Pre-drug screen- your innocent----- you come back from drug screen with positive results. In my book your proven guilty. Since everybody can twist everything I say into a pile of crap heres another one. I rape and kill some woman. Still inocent until proven guilty. They get a DNA sample from me and prove that I was the one who raped and killed her. I am now proven guilty.Thats how I see it. Like I said I dont want to rock the boat here but it seems some are getting pissed at me for my views. The nasty little PM's are always a plus. Never got those before. But when we talk about UA's and all I get back is FREEDOM!!! LOOK IT UP or innocent until proven guilty it makes me wonder what you have to hide. If you dont want to piss by all means dont piss! Like I give a shit just dont whine and moan when an employer want you to take a UA and you dont want to for some reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #155 June 8, 2005 Quote Doesn't mention drugs, but it is called the 4th Amendment. Quote Glad you pointed that out and I do believe Congress made a law banning certain Drugs!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 324 #156 June 8, 2005 Quote Quote Is this a personal attack? Like it or not we ALL are judgemental...Including you with that statement. Do you hate yourself? Or do you only hate those that do not agree with what YOU deem as acceptable? You need to accept that not eveyone is gonna agree with you. That does not make them evil and out to steal your freedoms. Sure sounds like a personal attack. You have called me small minded and a hypocrite. Saying "this is not a personal attack" does not change the attack. read my post again. i stayed vague with the statements bout small mindedness and the rest in order not to personally insult you by saying "you are small minded", etc. i don't expect anyone to agree with me, i have a lot of radical ideas. i also have morals and one of them says i should treat all people equally until they have done something to lose my respect....from the bum on the street to the potus....period. i'm not perfect, but i am trying to make up for a shit pot of bad karma from earlier in life. i just don't like our freedoms being eroded and everyone saying it's all right, it's cool....it's NOT. sorry about the thread hijack....._________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #157 June 8, 2005 Quote Quote Doesn't mention drugs, but it is called the 4th Amendment. Quote Glad you pointed that out and I do believe Congress made a law banning certain Drugs! Yep, the drugs are illegal, and I would gladly have a UA done if there were cause to believe that I was using them. Until there is good reason to believe that I am using drugs, a search or seizure (in the form of a UA test) is not allowed according to the 4th amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #158 June 8, 2005 Cogress amended the Costitution! It's not that hard of a thing to do. We are way off base from what this thread was started as so until next time, Late!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #159 June 8, 2005 actually....it's part of my freedom not to give a shit what you do or what you did with your freedom im glad your proud of whatever it is that you did, and if you think that defines freedom, hey great..... but to be quite honest.....i really dont care. people do what they do and its none of my business unless it affects me in some way, shape or form oh yea......i seem to remember something about the pursuit of happiness being in the constitution g Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #160 June 8, 2005 See This Poor NasCar driver done went and had his 4th ammendment rights trampled all over! Edit To Add: 6-7 million a year and drive a nextel cup car, or do dope............i think i'd drive the car! -Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #161 June 8, 2005 Quote Quote The only thing I keep hearing is "it's invasion of my privacy and Innocent until proven guily" Is that the best you can come up with. If it is then I will never listen or understand! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is LA no longer a state in the USA? Quote As far as I know it is but I just moved here a few months ago. As for the Other part. (Pre-drug screen- your innocent----- you come back from drug screen with positive results. In my book your proven guilty. Since everybody can twist everything I say into a pile of crap heres another one. I rape and kill some woman. Still inocent until proven guilty. They get a DNA sample from me and prove that I was the one who raped and killed her. I am now proven guilty.Thats how I see it. Like I said I dont want to rock the boat here but it seems some are getting pissed at me for my views. The nasty little PM's are always a plus. Never got those before. But when we talk about UA's and all I get back is FREEDOM!!! LOOK IT UP or innocent until proven guilty it makes me wonder what you have to hide. If you dont want to piss by all means dont piss! Like I give a shit just dont whine and moan when an employer want you to take a UA and you dont want to for some reason. I really don't know what is sadder, accepting that you are a young man with all the testosterone driven need to defend an untenable position in a manly way ...or that Americans really can move so far away from the basic principles this country is founded on that they really don't see a problem. Peace, jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #162 June 8, 2005 Quote I really don't know what is sadder, accepting that you are a young man with all the testosterone driven need to defend an untenable position in a manly way ...or that Americans really can move so far away from the basic principles this country is founded on that they really don't see a problem. Peace, Quote Dont know what the point was there but ahhhh ok!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #163 June 8, 2005 Quote As far as I know it is but I just moved here a few months ago. As for the Other part. (Pre-drug screen- your innocent----- you come back from drug screen with positive results. In my book your proven guilty. Yet you've also stated several times that you believe that anyone who refuses to take the test is guilty of drug use. So how can you proclaim that the person is innocent until proven guilty? Without PC, there's no justification for a random person to have to take action to be deemed innocent. Does this apply in the military - no, soldiers don't have rights, unfortunately. Certain industries may have a compelling need to test as well. Competitive sports may to make sure the playing field is level. People working in an office - get a life! If their habits affect their performance, you fire em. If they put up the same level of performance as anyone else, who cares? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #164 June 8, 2005 Quote Yet you've also stated several times that you believe that anyone who refuses to take the test is guilty of drug use. So how can you proclaim that the person is innocent until proven guilty? Quote No, I stated in my mind they are the ones who I have seen that refuse to give a sample are the ones who smoke or whatnot . I have never seen a clean person refuse to give a drug test. I have seen people who smoke refuse to take a test.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #165 June 8, 2005 Quote Now someone is gonna tell me Drugs are not that bad for you and all I have to say is Look at Ozzie Osborn. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #166 June 8, 2005 Quote Now someone is gonna tell me Drugs are not that bad for you and all I have to say is Look at Ozzie Osborn. Yeah! Or George Bush! Drugs are definitely bad if you turn out like George Bush. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #167 June 8, 2005 Quote Yep, the drugs are illegal, and I would gladly have a UA done if there were cause to believe that I was using them. Quote You were late 4 times in 30 days to work. Is that reason enough for you? A lot of company's will UA you for tardiness in excess.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #168 June 8, 2005 Quote I really don't know what is sadder, accepting that you are a young man with all the testosterone driven need to defend an untenable position in a manly way ...or that Americans really can move so far away from the basic principles this country is founded on that they really don't see a problem. I don't know which is sadder.....The fact that some don't think a company has the right to test its employees for substances KNOWN to cause problems at work....Or how some pot heads try to defend breaking the law. The cool thing is you have the right to not take a job with a company that does drug testing if you don't like it so much. Or, you are free to refuse and take the result without crying about it. Employers have the right since its legal. You have the right to not take a job there if it is so against your sensibilities. NO ONE has the right to just walk up to a person and make them take a piss test...But employers do have the right to use whatever LEGAL means to screen employees."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,113 #169 June 8, 2005 Quote Quote Dangerous argument... Could Be. Quote If you've got nothing to hide, why would you object to random warrantless searches of your home? Anyone who objects to a random warrantless search of their home must be a crook, right? Foolish remarks. Not worthy of reply. How is it any more foolish than your statement: ". . . why would anyone who has nothing to hide refuse a ua? i can't imagine it."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #170 June 8, 2005 Quote Quote Quote Dangerous argument... Could Be. Quote If you've got nothing to hide, why would you object to random warrantless searches of your home? Anyone who objects to a random warrantless search of their home must be a crook, right? Foolish remarks. Not worthy of reply. How is it any more foolish than your statement: ". . . why would anyone who has nothing to hide refuse a ua? i can't imagine it." because he really honestly can't. There's no hope. This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #171 June 8, 2005 Quote Quote Yep, the drugs are illegal, and I would gladly have a UA done if there were cause to believe that I was using them. Quote You were late 4 times in 30 days to work. Is that reason enough for you? A lot of company's will UA you for tardiness in excess. If I'm late 3 times in 30 days without good reason I get fired, end of story. No drug testing done. If someone can't show up to work on time, fire them, on drugs or not. If someone can't do their job, fire them, on drugs or not. If someone shows up to work smelling like weed, test them to see if they were under the influence at work, then fire them if they were. I see no compelling reason to randomly drug test people that do not appear to be under the influence of drugs. It's that simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #172 June 8, 2005 Quote I see no compelling reason to randomly drug test people that do not appear to be under the influence of drugs. There have been several listed...But I'll recap some of them for you: 1. Insurance regulations. Some insurance companies will not cover you unless you have a testing program in place, or offer lower rates if you have one. 2. Regulation from "higher". Airline employees have random drug tests since they are required by the FAA. Trucking companies have random tests since the DOT requires it. Both valid reasons. And it still stands...If you hate them so much, don't do them, but be willing to be denied jobs, or fired from your present one."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #173 June 8, 2005 Quote And it still stands...If you hate them so much, don't do them, but be willing to be denied jobs, or fired from your present one. or start your own business and make your own policiesYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #174 June 8, 2005 Quote or start your own business and make your own policies Is that you Jesus?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #175 June 8, 2005 you got that right the best part is I can have policies that apply to my employees but not meYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
