Alias 0 #51 June 6, 2005 QuoteSide bar; Rogers Rangers whore a bit different version but it was a Black Beret none the less, any one know the year (75th guys can't anser, you have the unfair advantage). 1758? After the British put him in charge of all colonial Ranger companies for French/Indian War as lectured by a drunken Cor McCallum - with 4th RTB Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #52 June 6, 2005 After each war the British Army has made a habit of adopting some headdress belonging to its allies or the enemy. The bearskin of the Guards came from Napoleon's Imperial Guard; . . In May 1918 General Elles and Colonel Fuller, when dining together at Bermicourt, discussed the future of the Tank Corps and its uniform. The 70th Chasseurs Alpines were billeted in the area at this time and General Elles tried on one of their Beret. Of the various proposals put forward he strongly favoured the Black Beret. . . Black was selected because it was least likely to show oil stains. See attached image. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #53 June 6, 2005 Quote . Black was selected because it was least likely to show oil stains. And the red of the paratroops?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #54 June 6, 2005 QuoteQuote . Black was selected because it was least likely to show oil stains. And the red of the paratroops? "Bring me my brown pants" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #55 June 6, 2005 Hey, maybe we should hand out Gold Wings to everyone who makes a tandem jump! After all, it will make them feel good, and times change - so why not? To hell with all those guys who spent years accumulating 1,000 jumps to earn one the hard way. It's just jewelry. Don't mean nuttin'! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #56 June 7, 2005 QuoteHey, maybe we should hand out Gold Wings to everyone who makes a tandem jump! After all, it will make them feel good, and times change - so why not? To hell with all those guys who spent years accumulating 1,000 jumps to earn one the hard way. It's just jewelry. Don't mean nuttin'! It's the 1000 jumps that's important, not the badge. Besides, it's not as if the black beret has ever been unique to the Rangers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #57 June 7, 2005 Quote It's just jewelry. Don't mean nuttin'! if you can buy it in a pawn shop it means exactly what you paid for it.. the 'badge' itself is a personal accomplishment... the physical representation of it is simply an item to be sold... berets suck all the way around... i'm glad i no longer have to deal with such a non functional piece of head gear at all... for that reason alone the general adoption of the beret is stupid... a week in garrison under the sun and you will hate it too, for the ridiculous tan line it leaves if nothing else...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #58 June 7, 2005 >Hey, maybe we should hand out Gold Wings to everyone who makes > a tandem jump! After all, it will make them feel good, and times > change - so why not? Why not indeed? Sell all the tandems extra shiny ones. That way you'll be able to tell all the tandem students from the experienced jumpers, they'll go home feeling good, and the DZO will make a few extra bucks. >To hell with all those guys who spent years accumulating 1,000 >jumps to earn one the hard way. ?? Let them wear em too if they want. A symbol like that means exactly what the person wearing it thinks it means. Whether it's a shirt, or a medal, or a trophy - if it makes you feel good, then get one. If not, then don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #59 June 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteHey, maybe we should hand out Gold Wings to everyone who makes a tandem jump! After all, it will make them feel good, and times change - so why not? To hell with all those guys who spent years accumulating 1,000 jumps to earn one the hard way. It's just jewelry. Don't mean nuttin'! It's the 1000 jumps that's important, not the badge. Besides, it's not as if the black beret has ever been unique to the Rangers. I don't mean to beat a dead horse to death. I'll make a few more comments and then I'll shut up and get off of here. Maybe Roger's rangers did have a black beret a couple hundred years ago. But then again they were disbanded a couple hundred years ago. The point of all this is that a beret that meant something to an elite force (that was still active) was given to everyone in that same branch of the service. Why didn't some General decide to give the green beret to everyone in the army? It would have been just as stupid. Contrary to popular opinion, there are people in the world who take pride in their accomplishments and even serving in the military. No, I'm not saying that takes a fancy hat or badge or an award to be shown off to others. It doesn't matter if Rangers or Special Forces wore underware on their heads. Before long there would be people trying to copy them to look cool. I also know that when someone does accomplishes something there are tons of people willing to drag them down to build themselves up. You see this all the time in life. I've heard people say they didn't want to be on a 300 way attempt because there was too much waiting around involved. Or that it was boring etc. The truth is, they probably never would have been picked in the first place to be on that attempt. Sure Rangers and Special Forces wear a beret and patches that maybe other troops don't. That doesn't mean they wear them to show off I'm sure their are lot's of people (who may have never accomplished much of anything) who would like to explain it otherwise...Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #60 June 7, 2005 QuoteIt doesn't matter if Rangers or Special Forces wore underwear on their heads. Before long there would be people trying to copy them to look cool.....there are tons of people willing to drag others down to build themselves up. Nice post. And the above is true and funny and sad. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #61 June 7, 2005 You continue to confuse the symbol with the substance. The Rangers who stormed Pointe du Hoc 61 years ago yesterday did not have black berets. I have a PhD from one of the world's great universities, but I don't get all bent out of shape when junior high school graduates wear academic caps and gowns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
navspecwar 0 #62 July 11, 2005 Just a quick note. Someone in the Pentagon tried to push through the idea that SEALS should wear black berets when the Teams were commissioned in 1962. Thank god , the Navy would have nothing of it and SEALs wear blue dress and white dress just like everybody else but sport the Trident which is the biggest badge in the Navy (and you sure earn it), just as Aviators and Submariners sport their badges. AND WE ALL EARN THEM AND RESPECT EACH OTHER FOR IT. Difference between the Army and the Navy? In the Army they can't get recruits. In the Navy we turn away a lot of people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #63 July 11, 2005 QuoteIn the Army they can't get recruits. In the Navy we turn away a lot of people. That might have something to do with the Navy (AF and USMC too for that matter) having a lower quota... I've seen Navy recruiters stuggling to make mission right along side Army ones... about the only ones that didn't have to work very hard at it are the AF ones. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #64 July 11, 2005 Quote You continue to confuse the symbol with the substance. The Rangers who stormed Pointe du Hoc 61 years ago yesterday did not have black berets. I have a PhD from one of the world's great universities, but I don't get all bent out of shape when junior high school graduates wear academic caps and gowns. *** But it might cause you 'some' distress if those same junior high students wore caps & gowns from YOUR great university...and the general thought was that they too earned it the same way YOU did! My oldest and closest friend in the world sports the 'failure to avoid ordinance' scars he picked up during his fun & travels with the 75th. The lead he picked up during the 'Black Hawk Down' chapter all but ended his military career... Sure...it's 'only' a freakin' HAT~ But... It bothers him....and that's good enough for me! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #65 July 11, 2005 Quote30 years ago, in the Army, the only people that I can recall who wore a beret were Special Forces(Green berets)and Rangers (black beret, now tan). Both are elite units that take great determination and hard work to earn the right to wear their beret. Now everywhere you look everyone in the army is wearing the ranger's black beret, even new recruits. Am I the only one that has an issue with this? To me it's like seeing a 300 way patch on a 20 jump wonder....Steve1 ____________________________________ It's kinda like a Nerf vibrator! Now that 'every' recruit gets a black beret is probably why the Rangers went to tan berets. The recruits will have to 'earn' a tan beret. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #66 July 11, 2005 Quote It's kinda like a Nerf vibrator! Now that 'every' recruit gets a black beret is probably why the Rangers went to tan berets. The recruits will have to 'earn' a tan beret. Chuck That's *EXACTLY* why they went to the tan beret....Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #67 July 11, 2005 QuoteQuote It's kinda like a Nerf vibrator! Now that 'every' recruit gets a black beret is probably why the Rangers went to tan berets. The recruits will have to 'earn' a tan beret. Chuck That's *EXACTLY* why they went to the tan beret.... _____________________________________ We 'recognize' folks for their accomplishments. Whether or not, the recipients like it. Personally, I think, this is a 'good' thing, that we recognize accomplishments. There are folks who work hard and go hungry or just whatever it takes to accomplish something they want. When that is demeaned and denegrated, I think, that is a bad thing. Granted, things change. Whether we like it or not. The Rangers, once again, showed what they were made of and switched colors of their beret. They worked with the 'change'. They didn't 'give-in' or puss-out or raise a fuss... they just made a 'change'. Ya' gotta look-up to someone like that. Now, all those other folks have a black beret. That's just too cool! BUT... they are not Rangers! Make sense? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoutdaplane 0 #68 July 11, 2005 Gen Shinseki said that the reason he gave the black beret to everyone who succesfully completes basic training was to show the world that the US Army was a new lighter faster army, and that it would help raise morale. I 'earned' my black beret in '83 by going through RIP which was three weeks of pure hell, we started out with 56 and ended up with 5 of the original group, I was very proud of my black beret. However, after having thought about this a while, it is just a hat, and one that we only wore in garrison, we new who were were, and what we were whether we wore the beret or not. Now the Rangers wear a sand color beret ala SAS in the UK. It is in the end just a hat, however, I think if Shinseki wanted to boost the entire Army's morale a raise or better living conditions would have made a larger impact. Just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #69 July 11, 2005 Quoteto boost the entire Army's morale a raise or better living conditions would have made a larger impact. It's amazing how many leaders (industry, military, etc) put so much emphasis on symbolic/temporary gestures instead of tangible benefits when trying to get performance boosts. Apparently, the majority of people are shallow, ego-driven, short term thinkers since this is practiced in all areas of society. You want more effort, set the expectations high, acknowledge it verbally once in a while and make sure the raises are comparable with what I could get elsewhere. I don't want a company picnic, or a t-shirt, or a special hat, I want to put food on the table and have the means to improve my life and my family's lives. I'd think if this was an emotional issue for the Rangers, they would not only switch hat colors, but make the black a penalty hat for poor performers - it would certainly take the glamour off of it for the regulars. But I think they are classy enough that just changing the uniform slightly to keep it unique is enough without mocking the decision made for the rest of the army. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #70 July 11, 2005 To quote Bob "Mr. Incredible" Parr: "It's just another way of celebrating mediocrity." mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #71 July 12, 2005 QuoteWait until you see the new deal about the combat badges.... Oh yes. I have seen the POG combat-zone badge...it looks like a pecker with a couple of balls hanging off it. I'll be earning my EIB in August and will hope to live up to earning a CIB when my unit deploys later this year. I also hope to live up to the traditions my unit's now official colors - the 506th. As for the berets, I'm not terribly fond of them, but skills are more than the headgear you wear. Personally, I notice the color of the beret, and look at the shoulder patch too. You also have maroon berets for the 82nd at Bragg, and Pathfinder units at Campbell. Mine's black...perhaps one day I'll earn a green one. We'll see. Blues. C/1/506/101So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #72 July 13, 2005 Bill, I tend to agree, but it's a sad commentary on society and culture when symbolism takes precedence over substance. Yet another sign of civilization in decline - the "Special Olympics" mentality about merit. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
