In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths

[Mikki_ZH 0]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html?th&emc=th

In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths

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By TIM GOLDEN
Published: May 20, 2005
Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers continued to torment him.

The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old taxi driver known only as Dilawar, was hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around 2 a.m. to answer questions about a rocket attack on an American base. When he arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb. He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days.

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Dilawar was an Afghan farmer and taxi driver who died while in custody of American troops.

THE BAGRAM FILE
First of two articles


The Bagram File

Along the Chain of Command, Confusion and Contradiction
Enlarge This Image

A sketch by Thomas V. Curtis, a Reserve M.P. sergeant, showing how Dilawar was chained to the ceiling of his cell.
Mr. Dilawar asked for a drink of water, and one of the two interrogators, Specialist Joshua R. Claus, 21, picked up a large plastic bottle. But first he punched a hole in the bottom, the interpreter said, so as the prisoner fumbled weakly with the cap, the water poured out over his orange prison scrubs. The soldier then grabbed the bottle back and began squirting the water forcefully into Mr. Dilawar's face.

"Come on, drink!" the interpreter said Specialist Claus had shouted, as the prisoner gagged on the spray. "Drink!"

At the interrogators' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.

"Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying.

Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.

The story of Mr. Dilawar's brutal death at the Bagram Collection Point - and that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days earlier in December 2002 - emerge from a nearly 2,000-page confidential file of the Army's criminal investigation into the case, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times.

Like a narrative counterpart to the digital images from Abu Ghraib, the Bagram file depicts young, poorly trained soldiers in repeated incidents of abuse. The harsh treatment, which has resulted in criminal charges against seven soldiers, went well beyond the two deaths.

In some instances, testimony shows, it was directed or carried out by interrogators to extract information. In others, it was punishment meted out by military police guards. Sometimes, the torment seems to have been driven by little more than boredom or cruelty, or both.

In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning.

The Times obtained a copy of the file from a person involved in the investigation who was critical of the methods used at Bagram and the military's response to the deaths.

Although incidents of prisoner abuse at Bagram in 2002, including some details of the two men's deaths, have been previously reported, American officials have characterized them as isolated problems that were thoroughly investigated. And many of the officers and soldiers interviewed in the Dilawar investigation said the large majority of detainees at Bagram were compliant and reasonably well treated.

"What we have learned through the course of all these investigations is that there were people who clearly violated anyone's standard for humane treatment," said the Pentagon's chief spokesman, Larry Di Rita. "We're finding some cases that were not close calls."


This is sad...

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[mnealtx 0]

Fucking assholes.... prosecute 'em!! No need for that crap.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dorbie 0]

More info on the Dilawar murder, this is with the guy hanging chained to the ceiling:

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It became a kind of running joke, and people kept showing up to give this detainee a common peroneal strike just to hear him scream out 'Allah,' " he said. "It went on over a 24-hour period, and I would think that it was over 100 strikes."

That's gratuitous torture for personal amusement. They're getting charged, not enough of them yet by the sounds of it.

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One of the coroners later translated the assessment at a pre-trial hearing for Specialist Brand, saying the tissue in the young man's legs "had basically been pulpified."

"I've seen similar injuries in an individual run over by a bus," added Lt. Col. Elizabeth Rouse, the coroner, and a major at that time.

And just to reinforce the view that military intelligence is an oxymoron:

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In February, an American military official disclosed that the Afghan guerrilla commander whose men had arrested Mr. Dilawar and his passengers had himself been detained. The commander, Jan Baz Khan, was suspected of attacking Camp Salerno himself and then turning over innocent "suspects" to the Americans in a ploy to win their trust, the military official said.

[Skyrad 0]

These torturers are responsible for the death of young Americans. Poster boys for Al Q. Congratulations arseholes.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Jimbo 0]

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These torturers are responsible for the death of young Americans.

Hardly. These guys are assholes and should be prosecuted, no question, but they're hardly responsible for the deaths of young Americans. Terrorist assholes get 100% of the credit for that.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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These torturers are responsible for the death of young Americans.

Hardly. These guys are assholes and should be prosecuted, no question, but they're hardly responsible for the deaths of young Americans. Terrorist assholes get 100% of the credit for that.

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Jim

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I agree with you, but it make's it a lot easier for the terrorist to justify there actions to people who do not support them. I'm sure you get extremely angry when you hear that an American was tortured to death in such a cruel way. It is very accommodating for terrorist to work with this kind of emotions. But apart from al this, the men who did this are sadistic assholes and I hope they get punished!

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[dorbie 0]

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I agree with you, but it make's it a lot easier for the terrorist to justify there actions to people who do not support them. I'm sure you get extremely angry when you hear that an American was tortured to death in such a cruel way. It is very accommodating for terrorist to work with this kind of emotions. But apart from al this, the men who did this are sadistic assholes and I hope they get punished!

Actually I get pretty angry hearing some innocent farmer-taxi driver was tortured to death, especially the wanton cruelty of it. Some f*ing meat heads getting their jollies taking turns to beat his legs to a pulp as he hung from the ceiling because they thought it was funny that he cried out in agony to his god. Then kicking the shit out of him because he couldn't use the legs they'd destroyed.

I think I've actually jumped the shark on this one. What kind of fucking degenerate command lets this happen?

[mikkey 0]

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I agree with you, but it make's it a lot easier for the terrorist to justify there actions to people who do not support them. I'm sure you get extremely angry when you hear that an American was tortured to death in such a cruel way. It is very accommodating for terrorist to work with this kind of emotions. But apart from al this, the men who did this are sadistic assholes and I hope they get punished!

Actually I get pretty angry hearing some innocent farmer-taxi driver was tortured to death, especially the wanton cruelty of it. Some f*ing meat heads getting their jollies taking turns to beat his legs to a pulp as he hung from the ceiling because they thought it was funny that he cried out in agony to his god. Then kicking the shit out of him because he couldn't use the legs they'd destroyed.

I think I've actually jumped the shark on this one. What kind of fucking degenerate command lets this happen?

I remember how people were howling posters down who initially questioned the lack of due process and rights for the Gitmo detainees.

We have proof of abuse in camps in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo. We have proof that innocent people have been caught up in it. And we know that the US policy of creating their own "rules" with the excuse of "war against terrorism" facilitated what happened. So when will the people really responsible being made accountable? When are Americans really asking the question of how on earth do you fight for democracy and human rights when you actually sink to the same level of what you are supposed to fight?

---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[skydyvr 0]

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So when will the people really responsible being made accountable? When are Americans really asking the question of how on earth do you fight for democracy and human rights when you actually sink to the same level of what you are supposed to fight?

You make it sound as though there are no active investigations into the problem, but that is not the case.

Why not cut the Chicken Little routine for once until enough time goes by to make some reality based judgments on how America handles the problem.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Skyrad 0]

Problem is its a recurant problem. With every action like this Al Q are given a priceless tool for recruitment. Also this is just the ones we hear about, not to mentinon the detainees that get sent to other countries for 'interogation'

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[crozby 0]

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not to mentinon the detainees that get sent to other countries for 'interogation'

The situation is insane: On the one hand the American people seem to want to be seen as just and fair, on the other their government is using legal loopholes, lies and cover-ups to skirt the geneva convention so they can engage in deeply offensive immoral behaviour.

[skydyvr 0]

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Problem is its a recurant problem. With every action like this Al Q are given a priceless tool for recruitment. Also this is just the ones we hear about, not to mentinon the detainees that get sent to other countries for 'interogation'

Agree, but the fact remains that the US govt is addressing the problem, and I'm sure we all hope the scum rises to the surface however high up the chain of command it needs to go.

As we've seen over the years, not even Presidents in the US are free from prosecution.

. . =(_8^(1)

[crozby 0]

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Agree, but the fact remains that the US govt is addressing the problem

Are you aware that the US govt sanctions the transportation of Gitmo residents to Afghanistan & other places for interrogation in order to circumnavigate American and international law?

[skydyvr 0]

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Agree, but the fact remains that the US govt is addressing the problem

Are you aware that the US govt sanctions the transportation of Gitmo residents to Afghanistan & other places for interrogation in order to circumnavigate American and international law?

Yea, and in some cases I am behind it 100%. Torturing to save lives is justified, in my mind.

. . =(_8^(1)

[dorbie 0]

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Quote

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Agree, but the fact remains that the US govt is addressing the problem

Are you aware that the US govt sanctions the transportation of Gitmo residents to Afghanistan & other places for interrogation in order to circumnavigate American and international law?

Yea, and in some cases I am behind it 100%. Torturing to save lives is justified, in my mind.

Torturing a taxi driver for fun and amusement costs lives, and not just his.

Even if you advocate torture at the very least I assume you expect there's some return in it and some degree of confidence that you have an illegal combatant with information.

In this case you had a congo line of degenerate cowards brutalizing an innocent man for no reason other that they thought it was funny. It's fucking unbelievable.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Torturing to save lives is justified, in my mind.

How do you determine you'll save lives prior to torturing? And do you think it's justified for the enemy to do so as well?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 3,131]

>Agree, but the fact remains that the US govt is addressing the problem . . .

Which is good; . But the other side of the coin is that this has been going on for almost _two_years_ and is continuing. Large numbers of prisoners have been tortured; over a hundred have died. At what point do you admit that your attempts to fix the problem are ineffective? When does the investigation start moving further up the chain to discover the cause instead of just stopping the effects?

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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Yea, and in some cases I am behind it 100%. Torturing to save lives is justified, in my mind.

So what you are saying is more or less f%ck the Geneva Convention?
And should this apply for every country or only the "good" countries? Are lives of Americans more worth then lives of Iraqis? Or does it also justify the torturing of Americans if Iraqis lives can be saved?

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[skydyvr 0]

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Even if you advocate torture at the very least I assume you expect there's some return in it and some degree of confidence that you have an illegal combatant with information.

I advocate torture only if you KNOW the enemy has information that could save lives. Sadly, the cases under scrutiny now don't seem to fit that bill.

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And do you think it's justified for the enemy to do so as well?

In a fair comparison, I'd have to agree logically that what's fair for one team is fair for the other. But in the real world, the enemy tortures people as a part of normal operations for all kinds of reasons, including cool video.

If they would simply keep the torture down to the few that actually COULD "save lives" for their team, the situation would be much improved. And yes, the same can be said for the American troops, but on a MUCH smaller scale.

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So what you are saying is more or less f%ck the Geneva Convention?

In the case of terrorists who laugh at the GC, hell yes. Why tie one hand behind your back in a fist fight?

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When does the investigation start moving further up the chain to discover the cause instead of just stopping the effects?

No question -- the sooner the better.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Frenchy68 0]

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But in the real world, the enemy tortures people as a part of normal operations for all kinds of reasons, including cool video.

I actually doubt that they do it for the "cool video" factor. It serves a purpose to them, which is essentially intimidation with the goal of creating trauma from the viewers. It has had, to some extent, some success in some countries where public support has dipped down, partially due to the brutality of the videos. IMO.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."